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2012 Draft thread part 2: draft schmaft

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Old
04-10-2012, 08:03 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
What do you think is a "young man" this is the entry draft ALL are young men. This concept is ludicrous.
He said THIS young man, not A young man.

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04-10-2012, 08:03 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
How many Leksands games have you watched this year?
0. Yourself?

Also 5 games at WJC where he couldn't finish plays against 20 year olds. How's he gonna fare against the toughest competition in the world?

Look I've recognized his talent. That small window that I got? I agree with pretty much every scouting report I've ever read except for the negative ones. He has all the tools, the strength, the build, the vision to be an NHL star. But I just don't see how somehow in 5 months he'll pick up what is necessary to perform better than he did among 20 year olds against 20+ year olds. Not only that, he's still one of the youngest prospects in this draft. That alone would incite any GM to allow that prospect more time for development. And not only that...I think Forsberg would be, I have to check on this I'm sure there's one slipping my mind, the first Ducks forward prospect to make the lineup right out of the draft (Kariya, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, Ryan they all needed development time). There's something called precedence, and unless Forsberg wows us like Fowler did and makes it so Boudreau can't NOT send him down because the team would be worse off without him, club PRECEDENCE would send Forsberg back to Sweden.

But don't listen to logic. Logic is ********. Especially when presented with facts.


Last edited by DuckJet: 04-10-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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04-10-2012, 08:05 PM
  #103
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You don't pass on Yakupov. If the Edmonton GM even suggests that, the owners should fire him on the spot and replace him with a shaved monkey. The monkey would do a better job.
The Edmonton owners will NOT be hiring you. Stop trying so hard.


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04-10-2012, 08:05 PM
  #104
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So basically Craig Button thinks the Ducks will pick Teuvo Teravainen, because he's a Finnish RW who plays for Jokerit. I'm not saying its a bad thing, I'm not really studied in the prospects. But his reasoning feels like the scouts at the beginning of Moneyball. Trying to replace the leading scorer of a team with someone who looks like him.

Once again not knocking Teravainen, I know nothing about him except he is Finnish and plays RW on Jokerit. And his first name kind of looks like Teemu if you squint.

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04-10-2012, 08:06 PM
  #105
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The Edmonton owners will NOT be hiring you. Stop trying so hard.

You wound me.

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04-10-2012, 08:08 PM
  #106
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This just makes me hate Edmonton more... and the sad thing is, I actually want to see those players play. RNH is a terrific player to watch. He plays so smart.

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04-10-2012, 08:08 PM
  #107
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This shows why I think the draft lottery is a bunch of crap.

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04-10-2012, 08:09 PM
  #108
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At least we didn't get screwed
We did in how we ended up 6th with the Leafs ahead of us.

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04-10-2012, 08:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I just explained why.

The team's failure is not because they drafted the BPA. It's because their GM has failed to acquire effective players through other means. Who are their best players right now? RNH, Hall, Eberle. The players failing them? The veterans.
Their just like the Isles calling up players out of juniors for roster spots "niño, Taveres,"arguably". If they take a D WHICH I think they will and let em prosper they will be okay. But to do this BPA crap three years in a row shows through his true skin. They highly LACK d man prospects That are any good.

And if You think Blain, Chorney, Gernat is that "guy" your wrong... Their d prospects are HORRIBLE!

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04-10-2012, 08:12 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
The Edmonton owners will NOT be hiring you. Stop trying so hard.

I'm not going to try and be rude but this BPA crap doesn't work for a third year first overall franchise ESPECIALLY in Canada. You
Gotta draft smart.

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04-10-2012, 08:12 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by kducks View Post
We did in how we ended up 6th with the Leafs ahead of us.
The odds of a different result occurring was 19.2%, 13.1% of it screwing us further. Can't really call picking just outside the top 5 when that's where you finished being screwed.

If you want to say anything, say the Ducks screwed us by not losing enough games and finishing higher than 6th. Not too comfortable, huh?

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04-10-2012, 08:13 PM
  #112
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With Edmonton 99.9% picking Yakupov puts CBJ in a tough spot..

I can easily see them not wanting Grigs. With questions about his character and work ethic it can be huge disaster in Columbus despite the huge whole at center. With Nash basically wanting out it could potentially be a terrible fit.

Unless CBJ falls in love with Gally or Forsberg and takes them at #2 I could easily see them slide back a few spots in attempt to acquire as many assets as they can. I see Toronto and Anaheim as potential trading partners w/ the Blue Jackets at the 2. It all depends how high we view Grigs. I personally would love to grab him however I know many of you feel otherwise. I think we have the talent around him to make it work. The question is what would it take to move up those 4 spots.

I would easily movie Palmieri along with 6th pick but is it enough? Etem and Palmieiri basically fill the same role and I'm more comfortable withe EE than KP which is why I'd be willing to include him in the deal. Toronto IMO would offer Kadri + 5th... Would either of these be eye catching enough for CBJ? Would you do it? .... I can already here the pro Dumba crowd chastising me. Lol.. Either way it's a no brainier for me and would love to have Grigs in Anaheim.

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04-10-2012, 08:16 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
He said THIS young man, not A young man.
So your concept of "THIS young man" is Yakupov? Do I really need a work cited page? That "man" could be anyone and likely to keep us guessing.

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04-10-2012, 08:17 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ducksgo View Post
I'm not going to try and be rude but this BPA crap doesn't work for a third year first overall franchise ESPECIALLY in Canada. You
Gotta draft smart.
I have no idea why you quoted me. The entire purpose of my quote was to identify Sojourn as a shaved monkey.

And when BPA is on another level from every other player in the draft, you draft them regardless. Or trade the pick, or the player, for an active star in an area where you have needs. Not taking a much better BPA would be bad asset management. It's not like they are prohibited from trading other assets.

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04-10-2012, 08:22 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
0. Yourself?

Also 5 games at WJC where he couldn't finish plays against 20 year olds. How's he gonna fare against the toughest competition in the world?

Look I've recognized his talent. That small window that I got? I agree with pretty much every scouting report I've ever read except for the negative ones. He has all the tools, the strength, the build, the vision to be an NHL star. But I just don't see how somehow in 5 months he'll pick up what is necessary to perform better than he did among 20 year olds against 20+ year olds. Not only that, he's still one of the youngest prospects in this draft. That alone would incite any GM to allow that prospect more time for development. And not only that...I think Forsberg would be, I have to check on this I'm sure there's one slipping my mind, the first Ducks forward prospect to make the lineup right out of the draft (Kariya, Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, Ryan they all needed development time). There's something called precedence, and unless Forsberg wows us like Fowler did and makes it so Boudreau can't NOT send him down because the team would be worse off without him, club PRECEDENCE would send Forsberg back to Sweden.
I haven't said anything about what Forsberg's future is. I'm not the one that said that Forsberg is going to need 2 seasons before he's NHL ready. That is what you said. I have every reason to question why you're stating that as something definitive. What is the source of that claim?

I have no reason to doubt that the logjam we have on the wings could keep a player like that out of the line-up next year, but that's specific to Anaheim. The season after that is up in the air. None of this really matters because your statement wasn't about making the roster, but it was about readiness. That is just goalpost shifting.

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04-10-2012, 08:24 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post

I would easily movie Palmieri along with 6th pick but is it enough? Etem and Palmieiri basically fill the same role and I'm more comfortable withe EE than KP which is why I'd be willing to include him in the deal. Toronto IMO would offer Kadri + 5th... Would either of these be eye catching enough for CBJ? Would you do it? .... I can already here the pro Dumba crowd chastising me. Lol.. Either way it's a no brainier for me and would love to have Grigs in Anaheim.
I'm wouldn't want to deal Palmieri just to move up four spots. Seems like taking a step backwards. No matter if you think Etem and Palmieri are similar we are lacking depth in general. Trading two assets one of which is a lot more developed seems silly for a young Russian with compete issues who is 18.

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04-10-2012, 08:25 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
I have no idea why you quoted me. The entire purpose of my quote was to identify Sojourn as a shaved monkey.

And when BPA is on another level from every other player in the draft, you draft them regardless. Or trade the pick, or the player, for an active star in an area where you have needs. Not taking a much better BPA would be bad asset management. It's not like they are prohibited from trading other assets.
I disagree actually... They've drafted BPA 3 years in a row. They have the youngest core in the NHL... Yes they are prosperous.... But to save a job and a family of
Income I see him actually drafting to team needs.

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04-10-2012, 08:27 PM
  #118
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Their just like the Isles calling up players out of juniors for roster spots "niño, Taveres,"arguably". If they take a D WHICH I think they will and let em prosper they will be okay. But to do this BPA crap three years in a row shows through his true skin. They highly LACK d man prospects That are any good.

And if You think Blain, Chorney, Gernat is that "guy" your wrong... Their d prospects are HORRIBLE!
Now you're just speaking in ignorance. Tavares is one of the best players in the NHL. As for Edmonton: Hemsky, Horcoff, Whitney, Sutton, Gagner, Smyth, Belanger, Smid, etc... these are NHL players. This is the problem in Edmonton. It isn't drafting the BPA. Drafting the BPA has put Edmonton in a great position for the future. If Edmonton takes a defenseman, it's almost certainly because they trade down in the draft, so they can acquire assets for the 1st overall and still get a great player. They aren't going to hold on to the 1st overall and not take Yakupov. They'd be giving up free assets for nothing. That's horrible management.

Edmonton can get defensemen, or D prospects, a number of different ways. Saying they need to take a defenseman with the 1st overall is absurd.

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04-10-2012, 08:33 PM
  #119
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Now you're just speaking in ignorance. Tavares is one of the best players in the NHL. As for Edmonton: Hemsky, Horcoff, Whitney, Sutton, Gagner, Smyth, Belanger, Smid, etc... these are NHL players. This is the problem in Edmonton. It isn't drafting the BPA. Drafting the BPA has put Edmonton in a great position for the future. If Edmonton takes a defenseman, it's almost certainly because they trade down in the draft, so they can acquire assets for the 1st overall and still get a great player. They aren't going to hold on to the 1st overall and not take Yakupov. They'd be giving up free assets for nothing. That's horrible management.

Edmonton can get defensemen, or D prospects, a number of different ways. Saying they need to take a defenseman with the 1st overall is absurd.
Really??? Have you seen their prospects?? Do you know
Of anything about the draft over 3 years?? I've named their top prospects that have been drafted after your BPA concept. They draft fowards before d man due to the luxurious pick of first overall, and grabbing d man early 2nd round. Their d man AREN'T ready and if they can draft a Murray who has multiple scouting reports
Of 2nd overall and is NHL ready they take em....

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04-10-2012, 08:37 PM
  #120
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Really??? Have you seen their prospects?? Do you know
Of anything about the draft over 3 years?? I've named their top prospects that have been drafted after your BPA concept. They draft fowards before d man due to the luxurious pick of first overall, and grabbing d man early 2nd round. Their d man AREN'T ready and if they can draft a Murray who has multiple scouting reports
Of 2nd overall and is NHL ready they take em....
If Tambellini is stupid enough to try to draft his entire team, the Oilers deserve to suck. There are other ways to acquire players. You do know that, right? Not to mention he could always trade the 1st overall, and get a lot more than just Ryan Murray. Drafting Murray, or any other defenseman, with the 1st overall is a wasted opportunity.

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04-10-2012, 08:39 PM
  #121
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I disagree actually... They've drafted BPA 3 years in a row. They have the youngest core in the NHL... Yes they are prosperous.... But to save a job and a family of
Income I see him actually drafting to team needs.
I don't think you actually understand what you're disagreeing with. This is basic asset management. It's common sense.

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04-10-2012, 08:43 PM
  #122
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If Tambellini is stupid enough to try to draft his entire team, the Oilers deserve to suck. There are other ways to acquire players. You do know that, right? Not to mention he could always trade the 1st overall, and get a lot more than just Ryan Murray. Drafting Murray, or any other defenseman, with the 1st overall is a wasted opportunity.
This whole argument started with you and another poster about Yakupov. I do NOT think he drafts him... That pick is valuable as hell and his fans have been waiting first overall three years in a row. I see the pick moving for franchise d man to back up his top 6 or drafting to his needs.

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04-10-2012, 08:45 PM
  #123
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This whole argument started with you and another poster about Yakupov. I do NOT think he drafts him... That pick is valuable as hell and his fans have been waiting first overall three years in a row. I see the pick moving for franchise d man to back up his top 6 or drafting to his needs.
No, this whole argument started with you saying they take Murray. I said "What?" and you went off on this whole tirade about how they need a defenseman, and how drafting the BPA has them sucking still.

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04-10-2012, 08:47 PM
  #124
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I haven't said anything about what Forsberg's future is. I'm not the one that said that Forsberg is going to need 2 seasons before he's NHL ready. That is what you said. I have every reason to question why you're stating that as something definitive. What is the source of that claim?

I have no reason to doubt that the logjam we have on the wings could keep a player like that out of the line-up next year, but that's specific to Anaheim. The season after that is up in the air. None of this really matters because your statement wasn't about making the roster, but it was about readiness. That is just goalpost shifting.
But keep in mind I never said he WILL. I've repeatedly stated that I could very well be wrong, but I believe that case is unlikely, why wouldn't I? It runs contrary to my opinion. You're acting like to quote another poster, I expect everyone to take my speculation as gospel. Speculation is by definition, speculative, not definitive. There is no source. I'm running on inference and previous experience.

And fine. We can take out the Anaheim example. I still believe that he'll need at LEAST one. I said two because that's the norm among even the best European prospects.

We only have to look as far back as our franchise player as a popular example Teemu was drafted in 1988. He didn't play in the NHL until 1992. That's a full FOUR YEARS of development for a guy who was more highly regarded than Forsberg is this year.

Let's go more recent and try to keep the focus on Swedes. Patrik Berglund. Drafted in 2006. Played in Sweden for two more years before coming to the NHL. Obviously Forsberg has more upside but that's beside the point. Berglund played as many years as I suggested Forsberg will play. Look at the 2010 draft Tarasenko, Granlund, and Kuznetsov...two years worth of post-draft Euro play and they're playing in elite leagues. Go back to 2009. OEL. Didn't take two years like I'm suggesting, but one more year was needed before he came to NA. Rundblad...same story. Erixon...still hasn't left Sweden. 2008: Gustafsson. Still hasn't left Sweden. Tedenby 2 years in Sweden.

If Forsberg played next year...for any club...he'd be the first forward to make his NHL club right out of draft since before the lockout. And behind Hedman and Larsson (don't feel like looking this up) the third skater. And I'm pretty sure the first to come out of Allsvenskan.

So...once again...I think this might be the 10th time I'm saying this. Forsberg CAN make the NHL right out of his draft. Will he? Probably not. When I say he'll need a few years I'm basing that on precedence. I mean Granlund is considered to be one of the best forwards not in the NHL, he's still not IN the NHL and it's been two years. Like really?

I shouldn't be so ostracized for assuming even based on a player like Granlund that Forsberg will probably need time before he's ready for any NHL line-up, and this a pretty commonly perceived notion about him. I'm not the first to think that, and I certainly won't be the last.

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04-10-2012, 08:56 PM
  #125
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Really??? Have you seen their prospects?? Do you know
Of anything about the draft over 3 years?? I've named their top prospects that have been drafted after your BPA concept. They draft fowards before d man due to the luxurious pick of first overall, and grabbing d man early 2nd round. Their d man AREN'T ready and if they can draft a Murray who has multiple scouting reports
Of 2nd overall and is NHL ready they take em....
NHL ready means the kid can play as a 4-6. Not a top pairing. There's never been a defensemen drafted who immediately was a #1 (maybe Orr, but I think we can safely throw that out and I'm not looking it up regardless). None of those D make Edmonton relevant next year. Taking a star winger so you can either have a ridiculous team in 2-3 years, or flipping the pick for more assets, or flipping one of the kids for more assets - ANY of these are better choices than blowing the #1 on an obviously inferior player.

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