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Montreal Retool

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04-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #1
LyricalLyricist
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Montreal Retool

I know many habs fans won't agree with me when I say this, but I don't really think the habs core is strong enough. Granted, I feel they are playoff contenders but not really cup contenders.

I've always liked the idea of being perrenial contenders based on a young core rather than building around vets.

So, the purpose of this thread is to retool the habs and make the core younger and enlarge the window to compete for the cup.

Obviously, Subban, Pacioretty, Price are off the table as I'd rather add to the core than remove from it.

Available:
Cole
Kaberle
Gomez(lol, here for reference but I don't expect deals)
Bourque
Gionta
Markov
Weber
Palushaj

Could be available:
Gorges
Plekanec

Less likely:
Eller
Emelin
Leblanc
Diaz
Desharnais

Close to untouchable:
1st round picks, specifically 2012. It can be available, but only for a true star.

Other pieces are available, but trading prospects like Tinordi, Beaulieu don't really suggest "getting younger". For the right player, they are available.

Before anyone says Gionta, Kaberle, etc.. don't have value...it just isn't true. Zidlicky got a return last year and is a lesser player or equal to kaberle. Gionta is a good vet who will score 25+ goals and lead by example.

Habs are willing to take salary back but only if it's a good fit. Giving us your buy out candidate because you're taking say Gionta or Kaberle doesn't really apply unless you overpay. These two guys are still serviceable players and habs don't NEED to get rid of them especially when they'd be stuck with crap in return.

I can't speak for other habs fans, but my expectations are modest. I do not expect a Kaberle to Boston return for instance, but a fair deal to help both teams mutually would be ideal.

Habs needs:

Legit #1 Center(think > Plekanec) or young top 6 Center with upside(Duchene, Staal, Berglund etc...)
Shutdown D-man(like Gorges, but more physical and hopefully not on the wrong side of 30)

The rest really depends who stays and goes. For instance, if Cole and gionta are gone, the need for a legit winger comes into play.

Long story short: Habs need to add to the young core with legit building blocks rather than marginal talent or vets on the decline. Open to 1st liners in prime age for the right price as well.

Anything of interest?

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04-22-2012, 02:21 PM
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SuperAlmeida
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Would love to get Cole to LA! What would it take?

Replacement for Penner!

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04-22-2012, 02:22 PM
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Ivan13
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Habs won't trade Cole.

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04-22-2012, 02:24 PM
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FanHabtic
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You don't have to burn it down to build to the core. That said i would put Cole in the could be available category and Gorges in the "not available" category. If any of the "availables" were traded (excluding Cole) it wouldn't be a big deal at all.

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04-22-2012, 02:25 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperAlmeida View Post
Would love to get Cole to LA! What would it take?

Replacement for Penner!
Won't LA have major cap problems in 2 years afterwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Habs won't trade Cole.
Unlikely, but the purpose of the thread is to get younger. So in this thread, he's available at right price but not for free. As good as Cole was this year, a 37 year old cole doesn't appeal to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
You don't have to burn it down to build to the core. That said i would put Cole in the could be available category and Gorges in the "not available" category. If any of the "availables" were traded (excluding Cole) it wouldn't be a big deal at all.
Just because those players are listed, not all will be traded.

Vets will remain as they are needed. Guys like Gorges are hard to give up. They are available on right circumstances. It would be foolish to consider them untouchable IMO.

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04-22-2012, 02:31 PM
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not really, most of those players are overpaid and not worth acquiring unless a team is filling a spot due to injury

Plekanec has value but isnt really a #1C, more like a 1B or a #2, but I dont see anyone other than Subban or Price or Pacioretty that would really interest most teams, Maybe Georges.

I understand what youre trying to do and it makes sense but there is a reason Montreal finished at the bottom, they simply are lacking in skill except for a few players

Id figure the habs could get their best return at the trade deadline, when a team might overpay for a vet for a playoff run

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04-22-2012, 02:34 PM
  #7
FanHabtic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Vets will remain as they are needed. Guys like Gorges are hard to give up. They are available on right circumstances. It would be foolish to consider them untouchable IMO.
Gorges is key to the Habs future with his age, stability and leadership as well as his cap-friendly contract. While not untouchable, he's not someone we should be dealing away as he is key to the rebuild efforts. Cole is also a player who has a profound effect on the younger Habs players. He helped mold MaxPac into a 30+ goal scorer and his professionalism is key.

I can see Pleks being made available assuming that we draft Galy/Grigs (and assuming they are NHL ready soon). Can't see anyone taking Bourque/Markov/Kaberle etc. and giving up assets.

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04-22-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
not really, most of those players are overpaid and not worth acquiring unless a team is filling a spot due to injury

Plekanec has value but isnt really a #1C, more like a 1B or a #2, but I dont see anyone other than Subban or Price or Pacioretty that would really interest most teams, Maybe Georges.

I understand what youre trying to do and it makes sense but there is a reason Montreal finished at the bottom, they simply are lacking in skill except for a few players

Id figure the habs could get their best return at the trade deadline, when a team might overpay for a vet for a playoff run


Don't even bother listening to this guy. He knows nothing about our team.
Proof. Here's one of his statments.

Pleks and Gomez are an embarrassment defensively.

Can you imagine anyone claiming that Pleks is an embarrassment defensively and now he's trying to tell us what our players are worth and what the Habs problems are.

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04-22-2012, 04:44 PM
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Flat Stanley
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If i'm the

I'm interested Josh Gorges.

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04-22-2012, 04:55 PM
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FanHabtic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Don't even bother listening to this guy. He knows nothing about our team.
Proof. Here's one of his statments.

Pleks and Gomez are an embarrassment defensively.

Can you imagine anyone claiming that Pleks is an embarrassment defensively and now he's trying to tell us what our players are worth and what the Habs problems are.
Its just comical and insane at the same time.

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04-22-2012, 06:54 PM
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AntonCH
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I thought the Expos left town years ago?

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04-22-2012, 06:59 PM
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Habitant le colon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
not really, most of those players are overpaid and not worth acquiring unless a team is filling a spot due to injury

Plekanec has value but isnt really a #1C, more like a 1B or a #2, but I dont see anyone other than Subban or Price or Pacioretty that would really interest most teams, Maybe Georges.

I understand what youre trying to do and it makes sense but there is a reason Montreal finished at the bottom, they simply are lacking in skill except for a few players

Id figure the habs could get their best return at the trade deadline, when a team might overpay for a vet for a playoff run
they also lead in wounded player lost their coachs and gm ... but being first in PK (thanks to price subban gorges and PLEKANEC the beast pker)

but you have still alot to learn about hockey dear ...



by the way i Won't comment this thread cuz firesale isn,t a way to build a core in ou organization's mind!

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04-22-2012, 07:05 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
If i'm the

I'm interested Josh Gorges.
I think it's best you offer something as by habit I'll say Gorges+ for Staal.

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04-22-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanHabtic View Post
Its just comical and insane at the same time.
they are embarrassing defensively when they play against big 1st line centers, which was what i said, they physically get pushed around, and im not the only one to say that, Bob McKenzie, Lebrun, and Pierre McGuire say it too.

you have one of the best Goalies in hockey and he stands on his head most nights covering for those two, you dont want to accept it its fine by me, I say the same thing about Franz Neilsen, and he's a terrific little penalty killer, it doesnt change the fact that against bigger centers he gets manhandled, just like Pleks and Gomez, and that places a greater burden on your goalie.

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04-22-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think it's best you offer something as by habit I'll say Gorges+ for Staal.
I would hate to lose Gorges but this is what it would take as long as the plus isn't any more than a Bourque,prospect not named Beaulieu or Tinordi or a 2nd rd pick at best.It may sound a little steep in Pitts but that is what it will take to get Gorges from us.

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04-22-2012, 07:13 PM
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Gorges isn't going anywhere. He's a rock on the blueline, the total locker room leader and the slam dunk next captain of the team.

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04-22-2012, 07:14 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
they are embarrassing defensively when they play against big 1st line centers, which was what i said, they physically get pushed around, and im not the only one to say that, Bob McKenzie, Lebrun, and Pierre McGuire say it too.

you have one of the best Goalies in hockey and he stands on his head most nights covering for those two, you dont want to accept it its fine by me, I say the same thing about Franz Neilsen, and he's a terrific little penalty killer, it doesnt change the fact that against bigger centers he gets manhandled, just like Pleks and Gomez, and that places a greater burden on your goalie.
The more you post the worst it gets.
Imagine putting Gomez and Pleks in the same sentence when talking about being a defensive player.As the lady said above. You have a lot to learn about the game dear.

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04-22-2012, 07:15 PM
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Vsevolod Bobrov
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Bob McKenzie, Lebrun, and Pierre McGuire say it too.

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04-22-2012, 07:18 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
they are embarrassing defensively when they play against big 1st line centers, which was what i said, they physically get pushed around, and im not the only one to say that, Bob McKenzie, Lebrun, and Pierre McGuire say it too.

you have one of the best Goalies in hockey and he stands on his head most nights covering for those two, you dont want to accept it its fine by me, I say the same thing about Franz Neilsen, and he's a terrific little penalty killer, it doesnt change the fact that against bigger centers he gets manhandled, just like Pleks and Gomez, and that places a greater burden on your goalie.
I think you're too into the notion that size is everything. Plekanec is a terrific player. Most people know that, if you don't, I don't mind. Agree to disagree but Plekanec is a huge part of the habs team. Price is as well and you're right that price steals games, but plekanec isn't the reason why he needs to. He's excellent. Not a true #1 center but a good player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
I would hate to lose Gorges but this is what it would take as long as the plus isn't any more than a Bourque,prospect not named Beaulieu or Tinordi or a 2nd rd pick at best.It may sound a little steep in Pitts but that is what it will take to get Gorges from us.
Fair enough, but I'd offer more. Staal is a perfect fit for montreal. I don't see many pens fans thrilled about a gorges return. From other threads I know they like Gorges and respect his game, but the + needs to be a fairly decent and a slight overpayment even.

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04-22-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think you're too into the notion that size is everything. Plekanec is a terrific player. Most people know that, if you don't, I don't mind. Agree to disagree but Plekanec is a huge part of the habs team. Price is as well and you're right that price steals games, but plekanec isn't the reason why he needs to. He's excellent. Not a true #1 center but a good player.



Fair enough, but I'd offer more. Staal is a perfect fit for montreal. I don't see many pens fans thrilled about a gorges return. From other threads I know they like Gorges and respect his game, but the + needs to be a fairly decent and a slight overpayment even.
What type of overpayment would you suggest?

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04-22-2012, 07:22 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Gorges isn't going anywhere. He's a rock on the blueline, the total locker room leader and the slam dunk next captain of the team.
So Gorges is untouchable for any possible return? I mean, technically price, pacioretty and subban aren't untouchable but I don't see many scenarios where a better player than them is offered up for them. In the case of Gorges, there is a LOT of better players in the league.

I will agree with the premise that habs should hold on tightly to Gorges, but I would never make him untouchable.

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04-22-2012, 07:24 PM
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What type of overpayment would you suggest?
Good question. It depends on Pittsburgh's needs. It doesn't need to be a 1 for 1 deal. It can be multiple players or scenarios. I don't want to get too much into it because I don't think Pens fans are 100% into the idea to begin with but a player like Staal has been an organizational need for almost 2 decades. A big two-way center with work ethic who is a winner and can potentially be a #1? There's a premium on that.

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04-22-2012, 07:25 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
they also lead in wounded player lost their coachs and gm ... but being first in PK (thanks to price subban gorges and PLEKANEC the beast pker)

but you have still alot to learn about hockey dear ...



by the way i Won't comment this thread cuz firesale isn,t a way to build a core in ou organization's mind!
maam, with all due respect, how much did the Habs get for Cammaleri last year? hab fans were asking for our number 5 pick and a top prospect at this time last year and we Islander fans said that youd never get even close to that....and in the end you didnt..

im just cognizant that most players who are 30+ or small get less than youd think in trades, I happen to think Andrei Markov when healthy is one of the 5 best defenseman in all of hockey but only a fool would pay that price because of his physical issues. you cant look at players in a vacuum, you have to evaluate them in reality, otherwise Guy Lafleur and John Belliveal and Doug Harvey would still be leading the Habs to stanley cups

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04-22-2012, 07:27 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I think you're too into the notion that size is everything. Plekanec is a terrific player. Most people know that, if you don't, I don't mind. Agree to disagree but Plekanec is a huge part of the habs team. Price is as well and you're right that price steals games, but plekanec isn't the reason why he needs to. He's excellent. Not a true #1 center but a good player.



Fair enough, but I'd offer more. Staal is a perfect fit for montreal. I don't see many pens fans thrilled about a gorges return. From other threads I know they like Gorges and respect his game, but the + needs to be a fairly decent and a slight overpayment even.
Staal may be the perfect fit for the Habs but he's the perfect 2nd line center perfect fit. We already have Pleks,Eller and probably a draft pick that will also be a center.
If we get Staal what do we do with Pleks and Eller?
If we trade Gorges it should be in a bigger package to get a true 1st line center.
Staal on our 1st line would be the same thing as Pleks.Waste of a trade.

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04-22-2012, 07:28 PM
  #25
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
maam, with all due respect, how much did the Habs get for Cammaleri last year? hab fans were asking for our number 5 pick and a top prospect at this time last year and we Islander fans said that youd never get even close to that....and in the end you didnt..

im just cognizant that most players who are 30+ or small get less than youd think in trades, I happen to think Andrei Markov when healthy is one of the 5 best defenseman in all of hockey but only a fool would pay that price because of his physical issues. you cant look at players in a vacuum, you have to evaluate them in reality, otherwise Guy Lafleur and John Belliveal and Doug Harvey would still be leading the Habs to stanley cups
wtf. Werent you "done wasting your time" trying to enlighten us ?

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