Looking at the current roster and what's available in the pipeline, how do you guys see the future of the Red Wings shaping up..
Admittedly, my knowledge is limited, but if I had to venture a guess, this is how I see it..
Veterans
I define them as an important part of team, but can only function in supporting roles. They were once the core, but now are past their prime and although effective in spurts will probably hang up their skates in the next couple of years..
Of these, Lidstrom will be the hardest to replace..
Core
These are the guys that are at their peak effectiveness and will be the driving force for the next 3-4 years. Any Stanley Cups that Red Wings win will be largely due to this group
Forwards: Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterburg, Filppula
Defense: Kronwall, Ericsson
Goaltending: Howard
Potential
These are the guys who are relatively inexperienced but have shown glimpses of talent and effectiveness and perhaps in a few years could become part of the core
Forwards: Nyquist, Helm
Defense: Smith,
Supporting Cast
Then there are guys that are part of the supporting cast, but could easily be let go and replaced as the years go by..
Forwards: Hudler, Miller, Eaves, Abdelkader
Defense: White, Quincey, Kindl
Prospects
These are the guys who are unknown in terms of their ability to play in the NHL, but have the potential.. I don't really have a pulse on who the top prospects are. Perhaps, someone more knowledgeable can address this..
Forwards: Sheahan, Jarnkrok
Defense:
Comparing our roster to say, Penguins, they seem to better set up for the future. Obviously, they had to tank to get bunch of great players. But in general, how do we look moving forward..
Will we be able to re-tool and continue to win and be contenders. Or do you see, a complete rebuild in the near future (2-4 years).
Looking at the current roster and what's available in the pipeline, how do you guys see the future of the Red Wings shaping up..
Admittedly, my knowledge is limited, but if I had to venture a guess, this is how I see it..
Veterans
I define them as an important part of team, but can only function in supporting roles. They were once the core, but now are past their prime and although effective in spurts will probably hang up their skates in the next couple of years..
Of these, Lidstrom will be the hardest to replace..
Core
These are the guys that are at their peak effectiveness and will be the driving force for the next 3-4 years. Any Stanley Cups that Red Wings win will be largely due to this group
Forwards: Datsyuk, Franzen, Zetterburg, Filppula
Defense: Kronwall, Ericsson
Goaltending: Howard
Potential
These are the guys who are relatively inexperienced but have shown glimpses of talent and effectiveness and perhaps in a few years could become part of the core
Forwards: Nyquist, Helm
Defense: Smith,
Supporting Cast
Then there are guys that are part of the supporting cast, but could easily be let go and replaced as the years go by..
Forwards: Hudler, Miller, Eaves, Abdelkader
Defense: White, Quincey, Kindl
Prospects
These are the guys who are unknown in terms of their ability to play in the NHL, but have the potential.. I don't really have a pulse on who the top prospects are. Perhaps, someone more knowledgeable can address this..
Forwards: Sheahan, Jarnkrok
Defense:
Comparing our roster to say, Penguins, they seem to better set up for the future. Obviously, they had to tank to get bunch of great players. But in general, how do we look moving forward..
Will we be able to re-tool and continue to win and be contenders. Or do you see, a complete rebuild in the near future (2-4 years).
I think you should probably go read some of the prospect threads and check some of the system talent evaluators out there on the net. You aren't listing a lot of the guys from our system that have tremendous uspide, Ouellet, Sproul, Jurco, Tatar, Tvrdon. The Wings are chalk full of top 6 potential, the Pens have a young top six but not much to speak of coming along up front in their system. Detroit's prospect D-men by in large all had outstanding seasons and really helped ease that weakness. Especially if a DeKeyser or Schultz materializes over the next two off-seasons.
In that case I'd include Abdelkader as well. Since everyone seems to refer to the Wings as a "soft" team it wouldn't help things to trade our only forward who hits with any frequency.
I would trade Abs tonite for the right deal. Limited offensive potential, doesn't skate well enough or have the instincts to be a valuable checker/PK'er and he's a punching bag. The core going forward IMO is Pav, Hank, Helm and Smith. Possibly Flip and Gus. I would trade any other player on the roster without hesoitation, and every player I didn't name really has no long term value to the team that can't be replaced immediately.
Will we be able to re-tool and continue to win and be contenders. Or do you see, a complete rebuild in the near future (2-4 years).
We need to sign 2-3 Parise and Suter aged free agents to go smoothly over this transaction period between our next prospect generation and this current generation.
If we manage to do that re-tooling well, there won't be any need to re-build in the next decade.
Might miss the playoffs down the road, but I don't expect us to be in the basement at any point in the forseeable future and start a rebuild that way. We have prospects that will be ready well before Datsyuk and Zetterberg are done. There will be an age-retooling for sure, but no trading top guys for draft picks. Free agent signings and the development of our prospects will determine exactly how smooth that transition will be. We could basically become the Flames v2 at worst, but with a solid prospect pool.
I would trade Abs tonite for the right deal. Limited offensive potential, doesn't skate well enough or have the instincts to be a valuable checker/PK'er and he's a punching bag. The core going forward IMO is Pav, Hank, Helm and Smith. Possibly Flip and Gus. I would trade any other player on the roster without hesoitation, and every player I didn't name really has no long term value to the team that can't be replaced immediately.
I would trade Abdelkader for someone like Prust, but right now I like what he brings to the team. He hits, he occasionally fights and he puts some points up. Unless the deal was too good to pass up I wouldn't trade him.
I would trade Abdelkader for someone like Prust, but right now I like what he brings to the team. He hits, he occasionally fights and he puts some points up. Unless the deal was too good to pass up I wouldn't trade him.
If the right deal for Abdelkader came along I'd take it as well, but Brandon Prust?? really?
he hits less than Abdelkader, is in the penalty box more than twice as much, and doesn't take faceoffs.
If we're dealing with the Rangers I'd rather go for someone like Boyle.
The way I see Abdelkader is he has the potential to be a very good 3rd line player, or an amazing 4th liner. He has made improvements every year since his fresham year at MSU, and he isn't done yet. I don't see why we would move someone like that for an upgrade in the fighting department. He plays well on the wing and in the middle, and can thrive in a physical, grinding game. He shouldn't be traded, unless it's for an upgrade at his position, and one at the top six or top pairing. He's too valuable.
In that case I'd include Abdelkader as well. Since everyone seems to refer to the Wings as a "soft" team it wouldn't help things to trade our only forward who hits with any frequency.
When Abby is playing physical than I would totally agree. However, for long stretches he seems to not play with that physical edge.
If he's playing with Emmerton and Homer though, than I don't blame him for not finishing checks. He needs to bust his ass just to cover all ice that those two simply can't haha
If the right deal for Abdelkader came along I'd take it as well, but Brandon Prust?? really?
he hits less than Abdelkader, is in the penalty box more than twice as much, and doesn't take faceoffs.
If we're dealing with the Rangers I'd rather go for someone like Boyle.
Very true, Boyle would be a good addition too. Would give us alot of size too. It would all depend on what deal Abdelkader was being thrown around for.
I think Franzen as part of the core is highly debatable. He probably will be, but whether he should will depend a lot on what happens in the next few weeks.
So the guy who has scored 27+ goals in four of the past five years (the only one he didn't, he played all of 27 games), and has scored at a ppg for three of the past four playoffs maybe isn't a core player? The guy is a vital part of the wings. If he's scoring, we're winning. If he's not, we're not.
edit: this isn't to say you have to like the guy, there are certainly some aspects about his game that turns fans off. However, he's also just a big part of our success.
I think Franzen as part of the core is highly debatable. He probably will be, but whether he should will depend a lot on what happens in the next few weeks.
He's signed until he's 104 years old, how is he not part of the core?
Key Complimentary (now and in the future) Players:
Sheahan
Tvrdon
Tatar
Ericsson
Stuart
Fillers:
Abdelkader (could be a key complimentary piece)
Eaves
Miller (could be a key complimentary piece)
Emmerton
Cleary
Kindl (could become a key complimentary piece IMO)
White
MacDonald
Hudler
Bertuzzi
Holmstrom
Mursak (filler but could become a key complimentary piece)
Andersson (could become a key complimentary piece)
Unknowns w/ Potential:
Pulkkinen
Backman
Marchenko
Jensen
Sproul
Aubry
Almqvist
Quine
Callahan
Ferraro (really feel he could become a key complimentary piece if things go right...)
etc.
Free Agent Targets (and where they'd be in the above list):
(1) Parise (Prime Core)
(2) Suter (Prime Core)
(3) Semin (Prime Core)
(4) Schultz (Future Core)
(5) Dekeyser (Potential Future Core/Key Complimentary Player)
Key Complimentary (now and in the future) Players:
Sheahan
Tvrdon
Tatar
Ericsson
Stuart
Fillers:
Abdelkader (could be a key complimentary piece)
Eaves
Miller (could be a key complimentary piece)
Emmerton
Cleary
Kindl (could become a key complimentary piece IMO)
White
MacDonald
Hudler
Bertuzzi
Holmstrom
Mursak (filler but could become a key complimentary piece)
Andersson (could become a key complimentary piece)
Unknowns w/ Potential:
Pulkkinen
Backman
Marchenko
Jensen
Sproul
Aubry
Almqvist
Quine
Callahan
Ferraro (really feel he could become a key complimentary piece if things go right...)
etc.
Free Agent Targets (and where they'd be in the above list):
(1) Parise (Prime Core)
(2) Suter (Prime Core)
(3) Semin (Prime Core)
(4) Schultz (Future Core)
(5) Dekeyser (Potential Future Core/Key Complimentary Player)
Kronwall/UFA or trade acquisition
Smith/Ericsson
Kindl/Dekeyser
Ouellet
Howard
Mrazek (probably won't be ready by then but what the heck...)
So you think Tatar won't be in the NHL by 2013-2014? And Jarnkrok's first season in North America he is going to start at a 2nd line center? Very ambitious, but i know you are very high in Jarnkrok from some of your posts. Keep in mind even Zetterberg and Datsyuk started out as 3rd liners their first year on the Wings. With Zetterberg and Datsyuk on the roster still in 2013-2014 I'd say its most likely Jarnkrok plays somehwere in the bottom 6 his first year.
I would move Trvdon from a complimentary player to a potential core player, because I think his ceiling is higher than just a complimentary player. I would move Helm into the prime core because of his age (25), and move Jarnkrok from future core to potential core, because he is a lot less proven than both Nyquist and Smith. But I'm not sure exactly what your criteria are for your groupings.
The way I see Abdelkader is he has the potential to be a very good 3rd line player, or an amazing 4th liner. He has made improvements every year since his fresham year at MSU, and he isn't done yet. I don't see why we would move someone like that for an upgrade in the fighting department. He plays well on the wing and in the middle, and can thrive in a physical, grinding game. He shouldn't be traded, unless it's for an upgrade at his position, and one at the top six or top pairing. He's too valuable.
We'd be sending some other good talent out the door w/ Justin, b/c he's definitely not bringing that kind of return on his own. He'd be a complementary piece added in to a trade for a top 6/top pairing guy- no way he's the foundation for that deal.
So you think Tatar won't be in the NHL by 2013-2014? And Jarnkrok's first season in North America he is going to start at a 2nd line center? Very ambitious, but i know you are very high in Jarnkrok from some of your posts. Keep in mind even Zetterberg and Datsyuk started out as 3rd liners their first year on the Wings. With Zetterberg and Datsyuk on the roster still in 2013-2014 I'd say its most likely Jarnkrok plays somehwere in the bottom 6 his first year.
I would move Trvdon from a complimentary player to a potential core player, because I think his ceiling is higher than just a complimentary player. I would move Helm into the prime core because of his age (25), and move Jarnkrok from future core to potential core, because he is a lot less proven than both Nyquist and Smith. But I'm not sure exactly what your criteria are for your groupings.
Forgot about Tatar, yeah he'll be in the NHL by then, either here or elsewhere (like him a lot, we just have so many small/skilled forwards and I don't think he's as good as some of the others).
If I was being completely honest with myself I'd agree with you that Jarnkrok will start in the bottom six (going straight from SEL to NHL), but I seriously think after one more year in the SEL he could jump right into a second line center role (provided he puts on enough weight/muscle). Not to mention our top six could use his right-handed shot. And I'd like to see him play with his idol, Zetterberg. But if not right away, I guess you could swap Jarnkrok and Franzen, putting Z in the 2 hole.
And I'm pretty high on Tvrdon too. Just want to see him do it again and bring a more consistent effort each game, definitely has the tools to be a top six player.
As far as my criteria for the groupings, I didn't really come up with anything concrete. Just sort of had a combination of age/skill set in mind when grouping them. Like "prime core" was guys between 27 and 32 with a top six or top four skill set. Although by those terms Z would be in that group, but I kind of had his history of back troubles in mind when I put him in the veteran core group (due to being a candidate for decline, although I hope not too quickly).
He's signed until he's 104 years old, how is he not part of the core?
It's called a trade. As unlikely as it looks at the moment that the Wings will ever trade away roster players again, a first round exit would possibly change a few minds.
It's called a trade. As unlikely as it looks at the moment that the Wings will ever trade away roster players again, a first round exit would possibly change a few minds.
Holland will save every possible asset for Yzerman to start the build.
It's called a trade. As unlikely as it looks at the moment that the Wings will ever trade away roster players again, a first round exit would possibly change a few minds.
While that is remotely possible, it would mean that Detroit is trading one of its core players away.
You don't give someone an 11 year contract if he's not part of your long term plans.
