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Justin Schultz in this year's draft

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Old
04-10-2012, 04:40 PM
  #1
ponder
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Justin Schultz in this year's draft

As we all know, it seems like Justin Schultz might become a free agent this offseason, if the Ducks can't get him signed. Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario where, instead of becoming a free agent, he for some reason entered the draft. Roughly where would he go? This is not "18 year old Justin Schultz of the BCHL," but "21 year old Justin Schultz who has been tearing it up in Wisconsin," who just happens to be in the 2012 draft. Where would you draft him compared to other top dman prospects, like Rielly, Reinhart, Trouba, Ceci, etc.?

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04-10-2012, 04:42 PM
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I don't know.

This is a hard hypothetical situation because he isn't going to want to enter the draft, he already did that and got drafted by a team he doesn't want to sign with.

He pretty much can choose which team he wants to play for, as a 21 year old, having the choice to play in the NHL where you want is rare.

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04-10-2012, 04:43 PM
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A lot of teams might be scared to draft him after Anaheim did and he didn't join them. definitely hurts his draft stock

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04-10-2012, 04:46 PM
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I think the idea is to discuss this as "he will sign with whoever drafts him." That being the case I think he fits between Murray and Rielly but I'm not very sure.

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04-10-2012, 04:49 PM
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Probably 10th-15th.

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04-10-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LupulMania View Post
I think the idea is to discuss this as "he will sign with whoever drafts him." That being the case I think he fits between Murray and Rielly but I'm not very sure.
Indeed, I was just trying to come up with a way for people to objectively compare him to 2012 dmen prospects. Assume he will definitely sign wherever he's drafted.

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04-10-2012, 04:51 PM
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Why doesn't he want to sign with Anaheim? I'm not familiar with his background.

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04-10-2012, 04:57 PM
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Top 10. Mostly because he's 100% ready to step in and play solid minutes in the NHL. That's a great way to get picked 5-10 spots higher than your counterparts.

And not only is he NHL ready, but he's a hell of a player who might one day be a top 2 defenceman on your team. He'd be an easy choice in the 5-10 range for me.

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04-10-2012, 05:09 PM
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Ducks draft him again just to screw with him.

He would be top 10 likely though.

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04-10-2012, 05:24 PM
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Phion Keneuf
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7th or 8th overall

very similar to Reilly

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04-10-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
7th or 8th overall

very similar to Reilly
This. In fact, if we're talking a scenario where he was undrafted and decided to enter this year with all his accomplishments under his belt he could even be the first defender taken. He's very clearly NHL ready and he led the NCAA in scoring two years in a row and was a Hobey Baker finalist...two years in a row.

And I'm saying this with a passive disdain aimed at J.S regarding the fact that he might not sign with us.


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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Why doesn't he want to sign with Anaheim? I'm not familiar with his background.
Honestly, no one has a clue at this point, anything someonelse will tell you is pure speculation and until we see what he does, we can't know for sure. Anaheim offered him the opportunity to get ice time and a max contract. We respected his wishes to play out his junior year (in fact we offered him a contract after his sophomore year, and this is what annoys me, he assured Murray that he wanted to play for us but he wanted to go for one more run with Wisconsin first). Also, it's not clear that he doesn't want to sign. I've heard reports that he wants to go back for his senior year, and his hesitation is a result of the potential lockout. Schultz is a very team oriented guy...it's very possible that he loves his team so much that he doesn't want that experience to end and he just wants to go back to play for them one more time before coming to the NHL. He hasn't made any indication that he doesn't want to sign, or he wants to sign elsewhere, or really even that he wants to return. He's been very quiet.


Last edited by DuckJet: 04-10-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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04-10-2012, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Top 10. Mostly because he's 100% ready to step in and play solid minutes in the NHL. That's a great way to get picked 5-10 spots higher than your counterparts.

And not only is he NHL ready, but he's a hell of a player who might one day be a top 2 defenceman on your team. He'd be an easy choice in the 5-10 range for me.
FWIW, I agree with this. He's pretty safe in that it looks highly likely that he'll be at least a decent NHL dman, he's ready to play right now, AND he has top pairing upside. If for some strange reason he was in the draft, it'd be hard to pass on him after the first handful of picks.

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04-10-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
FWIW, I agree with this. He's pretty safe in that it looks highly likely that he'll be at least a decent NHL dman, he's ready to play right now, AND he has top pairing upside. If for some strange reason he was in the draft, it'd be hard to pass on him after the first handful of picks.
He'd challenge Murray, Dumba, Trouba, and Rielly for sure. Dumba is considered to be at least a year off from the NHL, Trouba 3 if he goes the college route, Rielly should get another year of junior to make up for this one...Murray really is in my opinion the only defender who is NHL ready. Outside shot goes to Reinhart. He seems ready but not ready to excel.

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04-10-2012, 05:45 PM
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Shouldn't have traded Gardiner.......

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04-10-2012, 05:58 PM
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He didn't bail on the Ducks. A loop hole in his contract allowed him the choice to be a FA instead.

Why not choose to pick your own destiny instead of allow someone else to do it for you.

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04-10-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
He didn't bail on the Ducks. A loop hole in his contract allowed him the choice to be a FA instead.

Why not choose to pick your own destiny instead of allow someone else to do it for you.
Because we provided him everything he needed. We didn't force him to come to Anaheim after his second year. We even made a business decision regarding our future because we believed he was the best choice going forward (re: Gardiner). We invested in him, we catered to his needs, we believed in him (we could've easily drafted Hamonic or Stepan and have been rewarded for it much sooner than this fiasco rather than walk away with nothing at all...though in our defense we had 3 second rounders and Schultz was the third. Deschamps and O'Dell instead of Stepan and Hamonic is a concussion-giving facepalm).

(and I don't mean to keep saying we, but this whole episode has been emotionally trying and I feel emotionally attached...I can't help it)

Most players respect teams and reciprocate the investment just because they got drafted. Even in the first round. More so even for 43rd or lower overall picks. It's the right thing to do. On a personal and career level yeah, go wherever the hell you want...it makes sense. But you're decision to bail after a team invested their future in you in more ways than one when they could've taken someone else...it screws a whole organization and fan-base over. Most second round picks amount to nothing. When you finally do land a hit, and it's someone exceptional, it means something. Schultz needs to understand that. It's not as simple as go where you damn well please.

Either way this loophole must be eliminated, or at the very least revised. A situation like this happens with a first round picked player? The compensation is a second rounder. First of all that in and of itself is unfair. First round picks are there to give every team the best chance they can to improve. But it's not as unfair as not getting a damn thing if a second round pick walks. If we did a 2008 re-draft Schultz is guaranteed to go first round if not top 15. The caliber player that we're now in danger of losing is much more talented than a good number of guys taken in the same draft first round. To get absolutely nothing in return is beyond unfair. But this opportunity, the ability for NCAA prospects to avoid signing with the team that drafted them and go wherever they damn well please defeats the purpose of the draft. Schultz is our property. And before he's even played one game in black and gold he gets to jump ship? In what world is that fair? And not only that, but more prospects are gonna see what Schultz did and decide that it's the perfect way to play for their favorite team. Walk into the draft just for the glory, commit to an NCAA team and then play until you hit NHL free agency...then...boom. You've got yourself a free contract from your favorite team.

I'm pretty sure this situation would annoy and enrage fans of any team. I keep seeing Leafs fans say this. It's his destiny blah blah he should go where he wants. Well let's say you guys get a huge steal in the second round of this draft...say you draft...I don't know any centers going to the NCAA. Let's just say Girgensons falls into your lap at pick 35. He surprises everyone in the NCAA winning scoring titles, the Hobey Baker...he shows that his talent is on par with Grigorenko and Galchenyuk. He promises to sign in Toronto after his junior year, then he goes to FA and signs with Calgary. I seriously DOUBT any Leaf fan would be talking about it being his decision and destiny in his own hands. You guys would hate him like no other player to play in the NHL. I've seen how angry you guys get at the drop of dime. You'll probably read this paragraph and be like, "nah I'd be cool with it". It's all cook and curry until it happens to you.

If Schultz signs somewhere else it's a sign of low class and immaturity and no argument can be made to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
Shouldn't have traded Gardiner.......
No kidding. Shouldn't have picked Schultz either. We could've owned that second round/draft if we passed on Deschamps and O'Dell. Then in the third round Brittain and McMillan, then Ryan Hegarty, then Stefan Warg and we would've had arguably the best draft in recent years

Gardiner
Hamonic
Stepan
Schultz
Henrique
Holtby
Loktionov
Hartkainen/Lindback/Demers

Or we could've kept 12th overall, taken Karlsson, taken Hamonic out since we wouldn't have that pick and still make out like bandits oh wait...just replace Schultz with Hamonic.

2008 was honestly like our biggest fail of a year. And even more so if Schultz doesn't sign.

I think what Murray should do is ask Schultz to tell him his intentions. If he truly doesn't want to sign with us then he should at least give us a list of teams he would sign with if traded to, and trade his rights to that team so the pick doesn't go to waste completely. He owes us that much at least.


Last edited by DuckJet: 04-10-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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04-10-2012, 07:02 PM
  #17
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I don't get what exactly Schultz owes to Anaheim, because they have done exactly nothing to make Schultz a player he is today. If Ducks wouldn't have drafted him, someone else would and that's that.

Shame that you guys aren't living in Europe where teams really get shafted because players that have been trained by their respective clubs since the the age of six leave for NHL. That's a real investment in player, not this "but we drafted you, so you owe us" crap.

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04-10-2012, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Because we provided him everything he needed. We didn't force him to come to Anaheim after his second year. We even made a business decision regarding our future because we believed he was the best choice going forward (re: Gardiner). We invested in him, we catered to his needs, we believed in him (we could've easily drafted Hamonic or Stepan and have been rewarded for it much sooner than this fiasco rather than walk away with nothing at all...though in our defense we had 3 second rounders and Schultz was the third. Deschamps and O'Dell instead of Stepan and Hamonic is a concussion-giving facepalm).

(and I don't mean to keep saying we, but this whole episode has been emotionally trying and I feel emotionally attached...I can't help it)

Most players respect teams and reciprocate the investment just because they got drafted. Even in the first round. More so even for 43rd or lower overall picks. It's the right thing to do. On a personal and career level yeah, go wherever the hell you want...it makes sense. But you're decision to bail after a team invested their future in you in more ways than one when they could've taken someone else...it screws a whole organization and fan-base over. Most second round picks amount to nothing. When you finally do land a hit, and it's someone exceptional, it means something. Schultz needs to understand that. It's not as simple as go where you damn well please.

Either way this loophole must be eliminated, or at the very least revised. A situation like this happens with a first round picked player? The compensation is a second rounder. First of all that in and of itself is unfair. First round picks are there to give every team the best chance they can to improve. But it's not as unfair as not getting a damn thing if a second round pick walks. If we did a 2008 re-draft Schultz is guaranteed to go first round if not top 15. The caliber player that we're now in danger of losing is much more talented than a good number of guys taken in the same draft first round. To get absolutely nothing in return is beyond unfair. But this opportunity, the ability for NCAA prospects to avoid signing with the team that drafted them and go wherever they damn well please defeats the purpose of the draft. Schultz is our property. And before he's even played one game in black and gold he gets to jump ship? In what world is that fair? And not only that, but more prospects are gonna see what Schultz did and decide that it's the perfect way to play for their favorite team. Walk into the draft just for the glory, commit to an NCAA team and then play until you hit NHL free agency...then...boom. You've got yourself a free contract from your favorite team.

I'm pretty sure this situation would annoy and enrage fans of any team. I keep seeing Leafs fans say this. It's his destiny blah blah he should go where he wants. Well let's say you guys get a huge steal in the second round of this draft...say you draft...I don't know any centers going to the NCAA. Let's just say Girgensons falls into your lap at pick 35. He surprises everyone in the NCAA winning scoring titles, the Hobey Baker...he shows that his talent is on par with Grigorenko and Galchenyuk. He promises to sign in Toronto after his junior year, then he goes to FA and signs with Calgary. I seriously DOUBT any Leaf fan would be talking about it being his decision and destiny in his own hands. You guys would hate him like no other player to play in the NHL. I've seen how angry you guys get at the drop of dime. You'll probably read this paragraph and be like, "nah I'd be cool with it". It's all cook and curry until it happens to you.

If Schultz signs somewhere else it's a sign of low class and immaturity and no argument can be made to the contrary.



No kidding. Shouldn't have picked Schultz either. We could've owned that second round/draft if we passed on Deschamps and O'Dell. Then in the third round Brittain and McMillan, then Ryan Hegarty, then Stefan Warg and we would've had arguably the best draft in recent years

Gardiner
Hamonic
Stepan
Schultz
Henrique
Holtby
Loktionov
Hartkainen/Lindback/Demers

Or we could've kept 12th overall, taken Karlsson, taken Hamonic out since we wouldn't have that pick and still make out like bandits oh wait...just replace Schultz with Hamonic.

2008 was honestly like our biggest fail of a year. And even more so if Schultz doesn't sign.

I think what Murray should do is ask Schultz to tell him his intentions. If he truly doesn't want to sign with us then he should at least give us a list of teams he would sign with if traded to, and trade his rights to that team so the pick doesn't go to waste completely. He owes us that much at least.
As an Islander fan who lost two players to the same loophole last year (Blake Kessel and Jason Gregoire), I feel for the Ducks franchise and fans. Although those two are not at Schultz's skill level, it still sucks to lose assets for nothing. Plus Anders Lee will be in the same boat next season although he is saying all the right things now.


Last edited by TROLLPOSO: 04-10-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old
04-10-2012, 08:15 PM
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Either way this loophole must be eliminated, or at the very least revised. A situation like this happens with a first round picked player? The compensation is a second rounder. First of all that in and of itself is unfair. First round picks are there to give every team the best chance they can to improve. But it's not as unfair as not getting a damn thing if a second round pick walks. If we did a 2008 re-draft Schultz is guaranteed to go first round if not top 15. The caliber player that we're now in danger of losing is much more talented than a good number of guys taken in the same draft first round. To get absolutely nothing in return is beyond unfair. But this opportunity, the ability for NCAA prospects to avoid signing with the team that drafted them and go wherever they damn well please defeats the purpose of the draft. Schultz is our property. And before he's even played one game in black and gold he gets to jump ship? In what world is that fair? And not only that, but more prospects are gonna see what Schultz did and decide that it's the perfect way to play for their favorite team. Walk into the draft just for the glory, commit to an NCAA team and then play until you hit NHL free agency...then...boom. You've got yourself a free contract from your favorite team.

I'm pretty sure this situation would annoy and enrage fans of any team. I keep seeing Leafs fans say this. It's his destiny blah blah he should go where he wants. Well let's say you guys get a huge steal in the second round of this draft...say you draft...I don't know any centers going to the NCAA. Let's just say Girgensons falls into your lap at pick 35. He surprises everyone in the NCAA winning scoring titles, the Hobey Baker...he shows that his talent is on par with Grigorenko and Galchenyuk. He promises to sign in Toronto after his junior year, then he goes to FA and signs with Calgary. I seriously DOUBT any Leaf fan would be talking about it being his decision and destiny in his own hands. You guys would hate him like no other player to play in the NHL. I've seen how angry you guys get at the drop of dime. You'll probably read this paragraph and be like, "nah I'd be cool with it". It's all cook and curry until it happens to you.

If Schultz signs somewhere else it's a sign of low class and immaturity and no argument can be made to the contrary.
I know you're upset about the whole Schultz thing, but it has happened before. Did you feel the same way when Wheeler did it to Phoenix in 2008? They picked him #5 overall.

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04-10-2012, 08:20 PM
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They really should close that loophole even if my team gets him.

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04-10-2012, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
He didn't bail on the Ducks. A loop hole in his contract allowed him the choice to be a FA instead.

Why not choose to pick your own destiny instead of allow someone else to do it for you.
He more or less did, as he waited four years, which any college guy can do. By playing the year of junior before going to Wisconsin, he just became a UFA a month and a half earlier.

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04-10-2012, 08:23 PM
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Because we provided him everything he needed.
What exactly did the Ducks provide him with? He's a college player, the Ducks can't provide him with anything or he would be disqualified from playing any further college hockey. He payed his way to any camps that he attended and any advice re: training or anything, he would still have to cover the bill.

And "let him stay in college"? What a joke. He had no obligation to sign a contract and report to the team, you didn't "let him" do anything.

It's a sucky situation and all that, but don't make it seem as if the Ducks had to invest a ton of time, money, or anything else into Schultz.

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04-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #23
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I know you're upset about the whole Schultz thing, but it has happened before. Did you feel the same way when Wheeler did it to Phoenix in 2008? They picked him #5 overall.
Well...I didn't care AS much. I also didn't think Wheeler was as good as he is now. I still think it's a douchey move but in context, at least Phoenix got compensation. I'm proud of what Blake has done in WPG this year, but I'm being 100% honest, I'm probably never gonna be a real fan of his. Give all my love to Kane, Ladd, Enstrom, Byfuglien, and Burmistrov.

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04-10-2012, 08:29 PM
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How big of a troll job would it be if Edmonton snagged Schultz under the radar?

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04-10-2012, 08:53 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
What exactly did the Ducks provide him with? He's a college player, the Ducks can't provide him with anything or he would be disqualified from playing any further college hockey. He payed his way to any camps that he attended and any advice re: training or anything, he would still have to cover the bill.

And "let him stay in college"? What a joke. He had no obligation to sign a contract and report to the team, you didn't "let him" do anything.

It's a sucky situation and all that, but don't make it seem as if the Ducks had to invest a ton of time, money, or anything else into Schultz.
This is pretty much my feeling on it. He's allowed to do it, and I don't think there needs to be a rule against it.

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Well...I didn't care AS much. I also didn't think Wheeler was as good as he is now. I still think it's a douchey move but in context, at least Phoenix got compensation. I'm proud of what Blake has done in WPG this year, but I'm being 100% honest, I'm probably never gonna be a real fan of his. Give all my love to Kane, Ladd, Enstrom, Byfuglien, and Burmistrov.
Of course not, which is my point.

As far Wheeler being 'this good', taking him 5th overall, I'm sure PHX thought he'd be pretty good. A top 5 pick not reporting is a lot more impactful to an organization than a 2nd rounder not reporting, IMO.

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