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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 9.0

View Poll Results: Which of these three forwards do you want the Habs to select if available??
Filip Forsberg 54 17.70%
Alex Galchenyuk 138 45.25%
Mikhail Grigorenko 113 37.05%
Voters: 305. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-11-2012, 06:58 AM
  #151
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by habshound247 View Post
Barring trade, I could see the top 2 picks being Yakupov and Forsberg, leaving one of Grigorenko, Galchenyuk or Murray available.

Craig Button had Murray at #2, but I think Columbus will go after a replacement for Nash, and with Johansen on the team, center isn't a pressing issue. Forsberg seems like a safe pick and could also play center if needed.
Murray is the most logical CBJ pick.

1-they have a need on defense
2-Murray is one of the two NHL ready guys available
3-they have been burned by Russians and high risk picks in the past(no Galchenyuk or Grigorenko)

I don't see Columbus moving up, but I think Montreal, NYI and Toronto will call Edmonton with offers to move up from 3, 4 and 5

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04-11-2012, 07:00 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
According to the article, the scout really thinks Forsberg > Grigorenko. Could Columbus take Forsberg over Galchenyuk and Grigorenko?
they have been burnt a lot in the past so they may opt for safer picks than Grigorenko and Galchenyuk(due to the knee injury).

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04-11-2012, 07:40 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Good piece on LeMatch with Stephane Turcot who lives in Qc and sees Grig on a regular basisa. Basically saying hes slowed down in the 2nd half of the season. Not the best playoffs and his stock is falling.
Frankly, I trust Timmins, but I don't see him going with Grigs if he's still available at #3. Too many questions and the last thing the Habs need with this rare opportunity is an "enigmatic Russian". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all Russians are "enigmatic" or that they are the only ones who are - plenty of players from other countries are too (Exhibit "A" - Renee Bourque, see also Penner and a host of others, past and present). One thing, actually 2 things, haunt me (or I think may come back to haunt) if we have a shot at Grigs and pass on it.

First, he definitely seems to have an elite skillset, but questions have arose regarding his work ethic, competitiveness and overall "involvement" in the play. These criticisms seem to relate to his work in the 2nd half of the season. If one believes what one reads about him, he was tearing it up in the 1st half of the season and then just "fell off" in the second half.

My first real concern with not picking him is whether his perceived lack of competitiveness in the 2nd half of the season and playoffs has nothing to do with lack of competitive spirit and everything to do with lack of stamina (ie. he's simply tired). The guy is after all only 17 yo and won't be 18 until May. He's carrying around a pretty large frame and probably is still growing. First question therefore is whether the "fall" in his play in the 2nd half has more to do with a drain on his stamina as a result his growth, youth (as well as adjusting to NA) resulting in simply a lack of stamina rather than lack of competitive spirit. This could explain why he ripped it up (apparently) in the 1st half of the season and as the season wore on simply "ran out of gas" due to the aforementioned factors. If so, it's quite conceivable that next season he comes into his own and simply shreds the Q. Not saying it will happen, but I do wonder.

The second (but less likely imo) possibility might be a reduction in effort and productivity as a result of some hidden injury or just plain boredom. If he has a hidden injury then presumably we wouldn't want to pass on him assuming of course it's not a chronic problem. If it's boredom, well then, pass indeed.

Now, while these questions and possible scenarios respecting grigs might be of some intellectual or contemplative interest, is Timmins going to want to bother trying to figure it all out or just go with the "safe" pick. My feeling is that he'll go with the "safe pick" and personally I think he should. Still, Grigs? I wonder...

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04-11-2012, 07:45 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
they have been burnt a lot in the past so they may opt for safer picks than Grigorenko and Galchenyuk(due to the knee injury).
I really think Columbus will choose either Forsberg or Murray. In fact, I'll be shocked if they don't pick one of those two. They seem to be clearly the 2 safest picks and the only question is whether they take the one who seems to be more NHL ready (ie. Murray) or are prepared to wait a year or two for Forsberg. In my mind, that's really the only question regarding which of the two they pick.

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04-11-2012, 07:50 AM
  #155
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I'm also getting the feeling that we will be taking Alex Galchenyuk.

From what Timmins said on the radio. To the style of play (Timmins likes leadership, high compete level and foot-speed) and taking into consideration how lacklustre Grigorenko has been in the play-offs for the Remparts.

I still do not believe you can go wrong with either player. I still want Grigorenko more because I like his approach to the game, his size and his high-end talent. But I also am a big fan of Galchenyuk who seems to fit the Timmins criteria for prospects.

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04-11-2012, 07:51 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
But I don't know how to express my feelings towards Grigo.. Its some sort of uncertittude.. If someone understands what I mean (Eventhough I probably don't make any sense at all) please shed some light for me lol
I think I know what you mean. For me, I can say that I want Galchenyuk, that I want Murray, and that I want Grigorenko... or not. What I mean is he's an interesting package, but I'm scared of picking him. But... If we do pick him, I'll be very happy because our scouting staff would took such a decision only because they would believe he will overcome any shortcomings.

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04-11-2012, 07:54 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post
Frankly, I trust Timmins, but I don't see him going with Grigs if he's still available at #3. Too many questions and the last thing the Habs need with this rare opportunity is an "enigmatic Russian". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all Russians are "enigmatic" or that they are the only ones who are - plenty of players from other countries are too (Exhibit "A" - Renee Bourque, see also Penner and a host of others, past and present). One thing, actually 2 things, haunt me (or I think may come back to haunt) if we have a shot at Grigs and pass on it.

First, he definitely seems to have an elite skillset, but questions have arose regarding his work ethic, competitiveness and overall "involvement" in the play. These criticisms seem to relate to his work in the 2nd half of the season. If one believes what one reads about him, he was tearing it up in the 1st half of the season and then just "fell off" in the second half.

My first real concern with not picking him is whether his perceived lack of competitiveness in the 2nd half of the season and playoffs has nothing to do with lack of competitive spirit and everything to do with lack of stamina (ie. he's simply tired). The guy is after all only 17 yo and won't be 18 until May. He's carrying around a pretty large frame and probably is still growing. First question therefore is whether the "fall" in his play in the 2nd half has more to do with a drain on his stamina as a result his growth, youth (as well as adjusting to NA) resulting in simply a lack of stamina rather than lack of competitive spirit. This could explain why he ripped it up (apparently) in the 1st half of the season and as the season wore on simply "ran out of gas" due to the aforementioned factors. If so, it's quite conceivable that next season he comes into his own and simply shreds the Q. Not saying it will happen, but I do wonder.

The second (but less likely imo) possibility might be a reduction in effort and productivity as a result of some hidden injury or just plain boredom. If he has a hidden injury then presumably we wouldn't want to pass on him assuming of course it's not a chronic problem. If it's boredom, well then, pass indeed.

Now, while these questions and possible scenarios respecting grigs might be of some intellectual or contemplative interest, is Timmins going to want to bother trying to figure it all out or just go with the "safe" pick. My feeling is that he'll go with the "safe pick" and personally I think he should. Still, Grigs? I wonder...
Being injured or tired can affect your production no doubt, but doesn't prevent you from competing. Cole played banged up for a lot of games this year(I'm sure we all remember him getting up slowly and/or going to the room in pain) and he still competed hard and give it his all. He sacrificed his body and drive the net, battled hard.

Grigorenko is the opposite of that. I have watched him on 3 occasions these playoffs and haven't seen much second effort or compete level.

For a team like Montreal he represents 3 very real risks.

1-that he never reaches his full potential offensively because he won't compete for space on the ice or go into traffic(tops out as a 50-60 point center on a non playoff team)
2-he can't handle the pressure of a big hockey market and having high expectactions placed on him(to be a #1 calibre center and top scorer)
3-the KHL represents the big "elephant in the room" in case things don't go well he can always leave and go there and the Habs lose a valuable asset

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04-11-2012, 07:55 AM
  #158
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I would draft a forward. Any of Galchenyuk/Forsberg/Faksa would be fine with me. Reports on Grigorenko lack of grit scares me.

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04-11-2012, 07:55 AM
  #159
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I'd deal Diaz and a 2nd to Edmonton with our pick to move up. A top 3 pick + another 1st is too much.

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04-11-2012, 07:55 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm also getting the feeling that we will be taking Alex Galchenyuk.

From what Timmins said on the radio. To the style of play (Timmins likes leadership, high compete level and foot-speed) and taking into consideration how lacklustre Grigorenko has been in the play-offs for the Remparts.

I still do not believe you can go wrong with either player. I still want Grigorenko more because I like his approach to the game, his size and his high-end talent. But I also am a big fan of Galchenyuk who seems to fit the Timmins criteria for prospects.
What did you think of his game last night vs Halifax?

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04-11-2012, 08:06 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What did you think of his game last night vs Halifax?
I am going tonight. I had my own hockey game last night.

If the Mooseheads win tonight, I'll go friday as well.

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04-11-2012, 08:10 AM
  #162
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I just get the feeling that this draft is the turning point in our franchise. Everything this year has felt like a sort of divine intervention.

Everything that could go wrong went wrong. And if it didn't we were nudged to lol like Budaj's pass to Lecavalier. Like we needed to ensure it. Our position vs our goal difference ranking just shows how weird a year it was. It's like we couldn't rebuild on our own so it was done for us. While we don't need a rebuild most fans would agree that the powerful #1 center is our biggest need and we weren't going to get him any other way.

Recent drafts have been home runs - Timmins has drafted Pacioretty, Subban, McDonaugh, Tinordi, Beaulieu and more. Everything has been building to this moment and that franchise center that we've been looking for for 20 years is within reach. If we can develop this center properly, I don't see us with a major organizational need that can't be filled through UFA.

I haven't seen a year like this in my 30 years following the team. Does anyone else feel like this this year?


Last edited by Ginu: 04-11-2012 at 08:29 AM.
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04-11-2012, 08:10 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm also getting the feeling that we will be taking Alex Galchenyuk.

From what Timmins said on the radio. To the style of play (Timmins likes leadership, high compete level and foot-speed) and taking into consideration how lacklustre Grigorenko has been in the play-offs for the Remparts.

I still do not believe you can go wrong with either player. I still want Grigorenko more because I like his approach to the game, his size and his high-end talent. But I also am a big fan of Galchenyuk who seems to fit the Timmins criteria for prospects.
Quite honestly, while he missed the entire season this year, it's difficult (and I would think a mistake) to ignore what Galchenyuk accomplished as a 16 yo in the Q, especially when taking into consideration the intangibles he brings (ie. compete level etc.) I'm inclined to agree that Timmins will go with Galchenuk if he's availabe at #3, of not I think his alternate pick will be Forsberg.

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04-11-2012, 08:18 AM
  #164
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Trade Subban to Edmonton for the 1st overall and have 2 top 3 picks at # 1 and # 3

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04-11-2012, 08:18 AM
  #165
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Man the draft is in 2 months and a half. 2 ****ing months!!!

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04-11-2012, 08:21 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Trade Subban to Edmonton for the 1st overall and have 2 top 3 picks at # 1 and # 3
Stupid idea.

Subban, Patches, Price are the core players.
Cole, Plekanec, Gorges, DD, Eller are the secondary core players.

You build around those. You do not trade them.

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04-11-2012, 08:22 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Trade Subban to Edmonton for the 1st overall and have 2 top 3 picks at # 1 and # 3
Not THAT again ?

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04-11-2012, 08:22 AM
  #168
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Trade Subban to Edmonton for the 1st overall and have 2 top 3 picks at # 1 and # 3
hahahahaha


Wait, really?

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04-11-2012, 08:23 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
Man the draft is in 2 months and a half. 2 ****ing months!!!
I try and break my life down into segments.
I am in Exam Period right now.
After Exams, I'm looking forward to the big Cleeve's sale (hockey gear, shoes and Oakley clothes all on dirt cheap).
May is a big lull of nothing, just watching play-offs that we're not in.
June rolls around and it's Halifax's Play-On Tournament.
After the tournament, is the NHL Draft.

Then nothing until University starts back in September.

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04-11-2012, 08:24 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Trade Subban to Edmonton for the 1st overall and have 2 top 3 picks at # 1 and # 3
Good grief! How are we going to replace those 25 quality minutes per game? With St-Denis? Oh yeah....we have Markov back. Pencil him in for 25 minutes X 82 games.

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04-11-2012, 08:25 AM
  #171
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What did you think of his game last night vs Halifax?
Not much. He won a few faceoffs, made one nice pass on the pp, but was otherwise invisible. He went head-to-head with MacKinnon and his lack of compete and work ethic compared to the Moosehead was very noticeable.

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04-11-2012, 08:27 AM
  #172
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Good grief! How are we going to replace those 25 quality minutes per game? With St-Denis? Oh yeah....we have Markov back. Pencil him in for 25 minutes X 82 games.
You sign Ryan Suter

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04-11-2012, 08:34 AM
  #173
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I'd be cool with Murray.

Go with the old New Jersey model.

Price = Brodeur
Murray = Niedermayer
Subban = Stevens
Tinordi = Daneyko

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04-11-2012, 08:37 AM
  #174
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You sign Ryan Suter
Who has hinted at not wanting to play for a Canadian franchise. Good luck.

There are fans from 29 other teams saying the same thing as you. You don't think Edmonton wouldn't just keep the 1st overall and sign Suter themselves if it was so easy to do?

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04-11-2012, 08:39 AM
  #175
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I'm in favor of two players and I've occasionally popped on here and made that known.

Murray and Galchenyuk,

Firstly, Murray, adding Murray gives you the rebirth of the big three on defense,

Subban-Murray
Beaulieu-Tinordi,

You've got ten years where the top four may never change and along with Price would be one if not the best defensive tandem in the league.

The other is Galchenyuk, Simply put I like him more then Grigerenko and Forsberg, where you basically add a first line center to couple with Desharnais, where both players could eventually top out as 70-80 point players.

X-Galchenyuk-X
Patches-Desharnais-X

Fill in the X's

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