If Vanek was injured, he needs to get that **** healed and come back hard next year. He's better than what we saw down the stretch, but I also feel that his trade value is pretty low and our scoring so lackluster than trading him doesn't make us better, and probably worse. He's back to being a third line LW behind the shifty Leino and the ferocious Foligno. If we don't need his cap space, I don't see the rush to trade him.
For as much as he struggled down the stretch, he still had 11 points the last 10 games of the season. He might have looked awful for that time and longer but it's unfair to say he wasn't at least getting points. It doesn't surprise me at all and I agree that he shouldn't always be in front of the net on the power play. His shot is so good that he can have multiple roles.
You don't think him getting worked in front of the net for 6-10 minutes a night has an effect on his body wearing down? I'd all but guarantee it has an effect on making him more susceptible to bigger injuries. The bigger hits he takes may actually trigger the injury, but it doesn't mean it's the entire cause. Any way we can try and keep him more healthy is going to help this team.
Or course a player in front will take a beating. But lets not get carried away. Dave Andreychuk played a long time in that role and wasn't a cripple when he left the game.
I have no issue with moving Vanek away from the front of the net. But, to my point, its not going to do much when he gets caught with these big hits. Something that seems to be happening more frequently the last few seasons. That has me concerned and I'm not 100% sure how to fix it. And yes he will still get hurt by this big hits even if he isn't in front of the net.
He (and Lindy and You) are foolish if they don't recognize that the punishment received on a REGULAR basis due to system design/role on the PP....weakens the body so that when the "big hit" occurs, the impact is greater.
I think his role needs to be redesigned going forward. We all know how good he is in front of the net and all that, but it ultimately does us no good if he can only function in that role for 50-75% of a season. His importance to this team doing well is far too high to be relying on him staying healthy in his current role. Lindy or whoever needs to adjust his role, specifically on the powerplay.
I don't understand this assumption that he can't stand up to a whole season. This is his first year were he has slumped for a month or so of the season with playable injuries. Otherwise he has played most of his available games at a relatively healthy standard, except for taking a puck in the face. That doesn't happen often and can't be a part of an analysis on whether he can be relied on. 4 out of 7 nhl seasons he has played 80 plus games. He has never played less than 73, and that was the broken jaw/puck in the face season. Should the Penguins give up on Malkin and Crosby because they haven't proven to be able to stay healthy over the last couple years. Or we shouldn't have gone after Richards last summer because he had missed 15 games last year????
For as much as he struggled down the stretch, he still had 11 points the last 10 games of the season. He might have looked awful for that time and longer but it's unfair to say he wasn't at least getting points. It doesn't surprise me at all and I agree that he shouldn't always be in front of the net on the power play. His shot is so good that he can have multiple roles.
I think we (I suppose I should only speak for myself) never let go of his terrible January. When he had 1g 1a 2pts in 12gms.
Feb ----> 10gms 3g 3a 6pts
March --> 15gms 4g 6a 10pts
April ----> 3gms 0g 4a 4pts
I don't understand this assumption that he can't stand up to a whole season. This is his first year were he has slumped for a month or so of the season with playable injuries. Otherwise he has played most of his available games at a relatively healthy standard, except for taking a puck in the face. That doesn't happen often and can't be a part of an analysis on whether he can be relied on. 4 out of 7 nhl seasons he has played 80 plus games. He has never played less than 73, and that was the broken jaw/puck in the face season. Should the Penguins give up on Malkin and Crosby because they haven't proven to be able to stay healthy over the last couple years. Or we shouldn't have gone after Richards last summer because he had missed 15 games last year????
I have no idea where this argument is coming from, since I didn't say anything about him not being able to play whole seasons.
This started with you accussing me of pulling things out of thin air and playing doctor. When in reality I was pointing to actual hits that took palce this year and knocked Vanek out of the lineup/injured him. Oddly enough you didn't seem to know about them so you went on with a snarky attack
.
You pointed to TWO comments and correlated it as the entire medical history of thomas vanek.... it was pathetic.
Your entire argument is:
"Here's 2 examples of Vanek commenting on his injuries. He didn't mention any of the regular day to day plays around the net, so therefore those plays are not a significant factor in his injury history/breaking down at the end of seasons.
Quote:
I also didn't say playing in front of the net doesn't cause a player to take a beating.What I said was thats not where he sustained his injuries this year. Your medical advice not withstanding.
Do you dispute that regular physical trauma weakens the body?
Holy ****!!!...thomas vanek mentioned 2 spceific hits in the media in relation to injury, and that's enough for you to dispute the statements of others using common sense, that the regular physical beatings he takes, lead to a weakened body and thus more injuries, and a longer time to heal.
My question is, if he just needs "a couple weeks" to heal up, why did he not do that during the year? He was for the most part useless the second half of the year. It would have been better to take a couple weeks off to heal if that's really what the problem was.
Ennis declined a WC invitation because he was nursing injuries. He still produced down the stretch. Pommer said he was nicked up. Roy said he had injuries since training camp. It's like football where nobody is 100% right now. Just have to get through it. No excuses (and, to Vanek's credit, he hasn't made any).
None of them take the punishment Van does. If anyone pays attention to the front of the net on PPs you will see Thomas getting abused badly with crosschecks to his back. Hopefully Vanek can stay healthy next season.
My question is, if he just needs "a couple weeks" to heal up, why did he not do that during the year? He was for the most part useless the second half of the year. It would have been better to take a couple weeks off to heal if that's really what the problem was.
IMO his "a couple weeks" are probably at least 2 months for everybody else.
but it's hard to tell with him and his downplaying of everything injury related.
Pegula is ripped for commenting that injuries probably played a factor in their extended losing streaks, but Vanek gets ripped for not talking about his injuries and trying to play through it.
My question is, if he just needs "a couple weeks" to heal up, why did he not do that during the year? [...] It would have been better to take a couple weeks off to heal if that's really what the problem was.
first, as an austrian sabres fan i kind of focus on vanek when he is on the ice etc. and i'm sure i'm not objective.....
imho, vanek simply could not simply rest a few games and heal up. sabres were on the edge (or, in reality, over it) of being out of the playoffs before those injuries happened. I think as a veteran player he felt responsible for keeping fighting for that PO spot, no doubt in my mind he would have had a few "maintainance games" off otherwise.
Vanek was third (amongst forwards) in even strength points on the team, but 8th in ES ice time per game (He was third last year). Either Ruff irrationally hates Thomas' game at 5on5 or (the scenario I'm more likely to believe) his ice time was reduced do to injury.
Get him healthy and bump his ice time up and he hits 70 points. That isn't bad for a guy who gets a lot of his points with the man advantage who plays on a team with a **** power play.
Every year its the same. We find out Vanek is banged up. It becomes an issue of durability to me. Playing 82 games travelling around is crazy difficult. Vanek might have the skill, but not everyone has the same durability in the pros.
Im not saying its a legit excuse, and im not complaining. Maybe he should have taken some time off. maybe a back to back game, or the opposite where we have 1 game in 4 days. Take that game off and you might end up with 6 days off the ice.
We can debate endlessly which of our star players are banged up and and for how long they have been, but to me that begs the underlying question: Why do our star players appear to be taking so much more damage than other teams' star players?
The answer to that is: there are no repercussions. Lindy tells 'em not to get even, to take the (ineffective) power play. But other teams? You run their star, someone is coming for you. Or, for the opposing star. Your goalie gets run? Their goalie gets run. We should know what counting on the refs, or the league, to provide a deterrent is worth. Two words, first is jack.
Opponents know they can act with impunity and they do. Hopefully there will be less of that with Foligno and Tropp next year, but these Sabres are a far cry from the wolfpack teams of the 90's.
How to respond to your star goalie getting run:
How not to not respond to your star goalie getting run:
We simply do not know in what ways Vanek is "injured", the extent of those injuries, or to what degree they have impacted (or not impacted) Vanek's game to say anything intelligent about the Vanek Affair all the way around.
His comments about "injury" may be code for noting more than "I'm a bit dinged up, it's been a bad, long season, and I certainly do NOT want to play in that damned hockey tournament right now!"
To base any further discussion on how injured he was or how much it impacted his game is meaningless as ultimatley we just don't know.
We do know Vanek's level of "injury" was not sufficient to remove him from the lineup when a replacement at 100% may have been more effective. We also know his "injuries" were insufficient to remove him from a meaningless 82nd game in Boston.
Not sure why an apology is due him, I think he hurt us more than anything by remaining on the ice when he was so very ineffective.
That makes no sense. He gets criticized for playing through an injury, and if doesn't play through the injuries he get criticized. His 11 points in his last 10 games would be better than a replacement would have had.
I have no idea where this argument is coming from, since I didn't say anything about him not being able to play whole seasons.
I understand your 50-75% comment to mean exactly that. Unless you were strictly speaking about his net presence, which if so, I apologize. But that is a major part of his game so I would say that is a hard distinction to make, let alone pinpoint to a percentage of his capabilities.
Every year its the same. We find out Vanek is banged up. It becomes an issue of durability to me. Playing 82 games travelling around is crazy difficult. Vanek might have the skill, but not everyone has the same durability in the pros.
Im not saying its a legit excuse, and im not complaining. Maybe he should have taken some time off. maybe a back to back game, or the opposite where we have 1 game in 4 days. Take that game off and you might end up with 6 days off the ice.
I think the same could be said for every player in the league. Everyone is banged up. That Vanek story about his injuries also noted that 4 other players were similarly banged up, not to mention players who actually missed significant time, including at the end of the season. Individual players on this team don't have particular durability issues. Hockey is a rough violent game, injuries happen to every player in the league. The issue this team has is quality depth. The Penguins lose Malkin and Crosby last year and still make the playoffs. The Sabres need to add 3 guys that are similar in quality to a Vanek or an Ehroff because inevitably multiple players will be injured every year.
