The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
I really think the team is going to stay in Phoenix for the next 15 or so years at least. This has become like boy that cried wolf, where deals have fell apart too often that nobody could believe that someone will close a deal anytime soon.
So, many will be shocked when everything is finalized and the Coyotes are here to stay. With that being said, I don't see how Jamison's group is going to be able to support the team. It appears like they can't get even get enough money to even hit the 170 million asking price. So, it boggles my mind to think how they are going to sustain likely losing 20-25 million per year. Will we experience deja vu 5 years from now with headlines of Jamison 80 million dollars in debt and the league propping up the franchise again? Who knows.
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I submit to you that this "Gongdale" stuff is nothing but the expression of vapid desires of those who want the the Coyotes in their city or nation. Glendale has been navigating the combination of sudden recession, loss of home values and tax revenue, and the collateral damage done by Moyes and Balsillie. I think that they did as good a job as possible. When many consider giving up the team (because they want it) good governance, fighting tooth and nail to keep the team is of course bad governance.
I submit to you if Bettman had come out 3 years ago and said only KC, LV and Seattle would ever be considered, there wouldn't be more than 2 threads on BOH in all this time and nobody would be calling the place "Gongdale."
Last edited by Fugu: 04-11-2012 at 11:48 PM.
Reason: OT
I submit to you that this "Gongdale" stuff is nothing but the expression of vapid desires of those who want the the Coyotes in their city or nation. Glendale has been navigating the combination of sudden recession, loss of home values and tax revenue, and the collateral damage done by Moyes and Balsillie. I think that they did as good a job as possible. When many consider giving up the team (because they want it) good governance, fighting tooth and nail to keep the team is of course bad governance.
I submit to you if Bettman had come out 3 years ago and said only KC, LV and Seattle would ever be considered, there wouldn't be more than 2 threads on BOH in all this time and nobody would be calling the place "Gongdale."
First off, Detroit has nothing to do with anything. There's no worse managed city in this hemisphere, but that fact does not justify Glendale's incomplete. Suburban communities, even those with 230,000 people, should not be paying their city manager nearly as much as a city like Phoenix nor should they "invest" in arena projects that saddle them with a billion dollars in debt. The human toll of the Cardinals stadium and keeping the Coyotes is rarely ever mentioned by anyone, but it is deeply disturbing watching a city cut local services so they can pay a monolithic sports league millions just so the arena they built doesn't lose all of it's value. And all of this in a period when home values have collapsed.
I've got nothing against the Coyotes, I have no stake in them going or staying. But sitting here and pretending Glendale is anything other than a shambles of a city is an act of total blindness. Seriously, they should rename the place "New Athens".
And also, I'd submit that we have had like 5 or 6 Seattle threads in a period of about a month and a half... no matter where they were proposed to relocate, fans from that area would have shown up en masse to discuss it because we're the largest hockey forum on the web.
I often go to the Bronners Christmas store in Frankenmuth Michigan. Not sure how close it is to Detroit (to be honest) but I love it. The people have always been very kind to me there.
I submit to you if Bettman had come out 3 years ago and said only KC, LV and Seattle would ever be considered, there wouldn't be more than 2 threads on BOH in all this time and nobody would be calling the place "Gongdale."
You underestimate the entertainment value the Coyotes and Glendale have given over the years on their own merit.
Not to mention the awesome cosmological event of watching a city collapse into a financial black hole. That alone is something we rarely see in our lifetime...
It's also worth mentioning that most of those following this are people who no longer have a vested interest in their city landing the Coyotes. Most just post out of interest in the subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD
I LOVE that store. Have you ever been? People are so nice. Nothing better than celebrating Christmas in June.
Yes, a lovely place. I love Christmas, so it's always fun to go up there
First off, Detroit has nothing to do with anything. There's no worse managed city in this hemisphere, but that fact does not justify Glendale's incomplete. Suburban communities, even those with 230,000 people, should not be paying their city manager nearly as much as a city like Phoenix nor should they "invest" in arena projects that saddle them with a billion dollars in debt. The human toll of the Cardinals stadium and keeping the Coyotes is rarely ever mentioned by anyone, but it is deeply disturbing watching a city cut local services so they can pay a monolithic sports league millions just so the arena they built doesn't lose all of it's value. And all of this in a period when home values have collapsed.
I've got nothing against the Coyotes, I have no stake in them going or staying. But sitting here and pretending Glendale is anything other than a shambles of a city is an act of total blindness. Seriously, they should rename the place "New Athens".
And also, I'd submit that we have had like 5 or 6 Seattle threads in a period of about a month and a half... no matter where they were proposed to relocate, fans from that area would have shown up en masse to discuss it because we're the largest hockey forum on the web.
Glendale did a cost-benefit analysis. We tried to recreate it in one of my law school classes. Our evaluation was that the loss of the team and the cascade of lost business, jobs and home ownership, both direct and indirect tax revenues, along with the cost of paying off and keeping up the arena, would be quite more costly to the COG than the 25 mil a year they were sending to the NHL.
Glendale is not as incompetently run as you seem to think. They took a big risk to rise to the level of Scottsdale and Phoenix by being Arizona's Sports Capitol. They lost that one due primarily to the recession, and also the Coyotes. It was a risk, at the time, that most thought worthwhile.
As to masses of fans from KC, Seattle, I seriously doubt you would have seen anything the likes of what you saw here. No American town would go to war to grab a hockey team. Perhaps due to the "Make it 7" nationalism kick, the feeling that Canada had been wronged by the NHL, and a feeling that Phoenix was the poster child for the NHL forsaking Canada for the Southern US, three Canadian cities have gone to war over this, Hamilton, then Winnipeg and now QC.
Glendale did a cost-benefit analysis. We tried to recreate it in one of my law school classes. Our evaluation was that the loss of the team and the cascade of lost business, jobs and home ownership, both direct and indirect tax revenues, along with the cost of paying off and keeping up the arena, would be quite more costly to the COG than the 25 mil a year they were sending to the NHL.
Glendale is not as incompetently run as you seem to think. They took a big risk to rise to the level of Scottsdale and Phoenix by being Arizona's Sports Capitol. They lost that one due primarily to the recession, and also the Coyotes. It was a risk, at the time, that most thought worthwhile.
As to masses of fans from KC, Seattle, I seriously doubt you would have seen anything the likes of what you saw here. No American town would go to war to grab a hockey team. Perhaps due to the "Make it 7" nationalism kick, the feeling that Canada had been wronged by the NHL, and a feeling that Phoenix was the poster child for the NHL forsaking Canada for the Southern US, three Canadian cities have gone to war over this, Hamilton, then Winnipeg and now QC.
I'd caution you to stop conflating certain fans with entire cities and not to read anything more into people's motives than you are right now.
The recession isn't some magic wand that justifies fiscal irresponsibility... "we'd be fine if the bubble hadn't burst" is not a valid excuse. Glendale, like so many other medium sized municipalities and countries in Europe, lived well beyond their means and took a lot of ridiculous risks with money they never had because they were too shortsighted to imagine what would happen when the boom was over. I'd sincerely hope that the citizens of Glendale and every city like it have learned that it's better not trying to "rise" to the level of major cities if that involves taking on massive debts on things like stadiums that never, ever pay off.
