I suspect Roy's value is going to be impacted by what teams do in these playoffs. The teams we thought might be interested at the deadline in Chicago and Detroit might be more interested if they fall down in the first round.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
He just took issue with you calling Iginla a proven 50 goal scorer.
The entire premise Jame put forth is asinine. We shoud trade Roy for Iginla because Iginla would be worth more at the deadline. Huh?
Couple of things
1. Then why do the Flames trade Iginla for Roy in the first place? How could they possibly be equal in value this summer to warrant a straight up trade if Iginla would be 5x more valuable at the deadline. Do the Flames not realize Iginla could be worth more?
2. If it takes a package to trade for Iginla that would be pretty stupid. Since he is a last piece to the puzzle type of acquistion and we are hardly at that point.
3. Why make a trade with the best case scenario being able to dump the player you just acquired at the deadline for a good return? What successful teams operate like that?
I have no interest in trading for Iginla becasue I want to keep restocking the team and system. That way we have the players to ride out injuries and the prospects needed to go after rentals when we are back on top. Adding a 7mil 34/35 year old winger is hardly the smart play right now.
How about something based around Vanek and Marleau? Similar cap hits. San Jose may be willing to shake things up if they get eliminated early.
That gives them Ennis, Hodgson, Marleau, and Roy as center depth. Marleau or Roy can play LW and fill in at center when needed.
So not worth it. Marleau may put up numbers but he's such a lazy player and seems to never be able to get it done in the clutch under pressure. But if he's not being focused on and need to comes through big, he can and will, but I don't think that's worth such a transaction.
Adding a player with the class and leadership of Iginla can never be considered anything but smart.
The young players like Ennis, Myers, Hodgson would benefit greatly by such a move.
He's far from washed up considering that 34/35 year old winger would have lead our team in goals this season
Would it be tight on the cap, sure. But if it's possible to fit his salary in, I'd be all for it.
I really don't see why its not a smart move.
He's is still amazing now but realistically a Stanley cup window likely won't open up for us until the 2014-15 season at soonest and how affective will he be then? Itd be great to have him for the kids but for what it would cost I don't think it's worth it
Black's comments in TBN that the team will continue its aggressive approach in adding new talent to the team makes me happy.
Coupling those comments with the sentiments he shared of wanting to get the payroll back in order leads me to believe that there will definitely be some trades this summer.
Black's comments in TBN that the team will continue its aggressive approach in adding new talent to the team makes me happy.
Coupling those comments with the sentiments he shared of wanting to get the payroll back in order leads me to believe that there will definitely be some trades this summer.
absolutely. We were all a bit shocked with Erhoff, rivet trade, and maybe a bit less with leino. Eitherway... shedding some salary and making a move with parise or something of that nature. possibly via trade.
He just took issue with you calling Iginla a proven 50 goal scorer.
The entire premise Jame put forth is asinine. We shoud trade Roy for Iginla because Iginla would be worth more at the deadline. Huh?
Couple of things
1. Then why do the Flames trade Iginla for Roy in the first place? How could they possibly be equal in value this summer to warrant a straight up trade if Iginla would be 5x more valuable at the deadline. Do the Flames not realize Iginla could be worth more?
2. If it takes a package to trade for Iginla that would be pretty stupid. Since he is a last piece to the puzzle type of acquistion and we are hardly at that point.
3. Why make a trade with the best case scenario being able to dump the player you just acquired at the deadline for a good return? What successful teams operate like that?
I have no interest in trading for Iginla becasue I want to keep restocking the team and system. That way we have the players to ride out injuries and the prospects needed to go after rentals when we are back on top. Adding a 7mil 34/35 year old winger is hardly the smart play right now.
thats not the premise i put forth...
i put forth the premise of 1 simple thing.... you need to distort it now... because you are beginning to look like the nin come poop who wouldnt trade roy for igninla
At 7mil per with only one year left on his deal I beg to differ.
There are classy guys with leadership in this league that can be acquired without trading away a bunch of assets and they won't cost 7mil per.
We are not Cup contenders next season and adding Iginla doesn't make us one. I see little point in targetting him this offseason.
derek roy only has 1 year left...
the proposed deal that YOU turned down, was roy for iginla, there were no other assets involved.
do your best to change the scenario
joshjull wouldnt trade roy for iginla at the draft...
of course my roy for iginla proposal was going to be involved in proving a greater point... but you couldnt even agree to that, and instead made a fool of yourself
Roy for Iginla is actually interesting to me right now. Suggested at nearly any other time in the recent past, I would have knee-jerked that its a center for a wing, or it would take too many assets, or that his cap hit is too high considering where he is in his career.
However, now that both have only one year left on their deals, and Iginla is this old, the value might actually be there to get him for just Roy. It makes sense for the Flames since they save money in a year they won't contend anyways, and get an inside track to renegotiate an extension with a relatively young 2C. It makes sense for us because we get the better overall player, a proven leader, and a positive influence for our youngsters.
Assuming as many here do that we we were going to let Roy walk after next year anyways, it really doesn't cost us anything. We would need to find another center in FA or via trade, but just a 3C will do. The main drawback of such a move, imo, would be if it eliminated the possibility of acquiring Parise (depends how much the cap goes up by).
Agreed. Or if Chicago gets to the WCF and loses. Something to make them think they need a 2C, whether it be an early exit from the playoffs or coming close to a Cup berth. That would set up a Roy - McNeill trade. Normally, I don't think Chicago makes that deal for one year of Roy, but if they feel desperate, it might happen.
I like the idea of McNeill over Iginla.
- I think if Calgary trades Iginla, they're looking for more than one year of Roy.
- If Buffalo keeps Vanek, McNeill is more the type of player you'd want to pair with him. McNeill might be able to play LW, and serve as the Foligno-like power forward for Vanek. That could help keep Vanek from having to go to the front of the net, and maybe alleviate the pounding he takes.
I like Foligno - Ennis - Stafford, McNeill - Hodgson - Vanek. Two young, talented centers, two power forwards, two bigger skilled forwards. Not a hockey expert, but seems pretty balanced to me.
Agreed. Or if Chicago gets to the WCF and loses. Something to make them think they need a 2C, whether it be an early exit from the playoffs or coming close to a Cup berth. That would set up a Roy - McNeill trade. Normally, I don't think Chicago makes that deal for one year of Roy, but if they feel desperate, it might happen.
I like the idea of McNeill over Iginla.
- I think if Calgary trades Iginla, they're looking for more than one year of Roy.
- If Buffalo keeps Vanek, McNeill is more the type of player you'd want to pair with him. McNeill might be able to play LW, and serve as the Foligno-like power forward for Vanek. That could help keep Vanek from having to go to the front of the net, and maybe alleviate the pounding he takes.
I like Foligno - Ennis - Stafford, McNeill - Hodgson - Vanek. Two young, talented centers, two power forwards, two bigger skilled forwards. Not a hockey expert, but seems pretty balanced to me.
There is no way that Pominville gets demoted to the 3rd line to make room for a rookie natural center. McNeil would play 3C because thats what he's suited for, and conveniently, thats exactly what we need.
Honestly, the guy I would love to have is someone like a Brandon Sutter from Carolina. Big, young, good attitude/leadership, shows some skill but is very proficient defensively. Exactly the kind of guy we need to play behind Ennis/Hodgson for the long term. Colin Wilson, Ryan O'Reilly (I know he's on a different level, but I'd love to have him) are two others I'd like us to possibly get, but I believe that if they move Roy, the best way to get value would be to trade him to a center-starved team for a winger, and then move Vanek for a center, allowing us to maximize value on another teams positions of weakness. And then to find that 3rd-line type guy for the future we could use one of our two 1st rounders to get that guy (Girgensons/Gaunce).
I could see them doing something like Vanek and Adam/Gerbe/Tropp to Colorado for Stastny and McGinn. It'd be a trade where each team moves a big salary player and a young player, but at different positions, so that Buffalo would get the experienced centerman, Colorado the winger, and then Buffalo would get a young winger, and Colorado would get a young player. I don't know if they'd do this, or if Buffalo would, but it seems like the starting point for a deal.
If we did do that, our center position wouldn't be miles better, but I'd take Stastny over Roy for sure.
It also makes Roy totally expendable, and could move him to a team for a winger instead of a center, which is one reason I believe he hasn't been dealt/doesn't have very good value, because Darcy has been trying to swap him for a veteran NHL centerman. Guys that come to mind to deal him for are, Kyle Okposo, Mason Raymond, Patric Hornqvist, Cal Clutterbuck, MPS, Brendan Morrow, Umberger, Viktor Stalberg, Troy Brouwer, Andrew Ladd, or, Jame's personal favorite, Iginla. Now, I realize that some of these clubs would have to add to a deal including some of the above listed wingers in order to get Roy, and none (besides Iginla, even at his age) are elite, but a lot of these guys add things we need on the roster, mainly size/physical play, at least most.
The more I listen to Black say Regier and Ruff are staying, and the more I hear from the players (specifically Roy, and what we've seen between Ruff and Vanek), I think at least Roy will get moved, if not Vanek as well.
Then if necessary, move Leopold for picks/prospects to save the cap space and either let McNabb/Weber/etc. battle for the last spot, or sign a veteran free agent.
Honestly, the guy I would love to have is someone like a Brandon Sutter from Carolina. Big, young, good attitude/leadership, shows some skill but is very proficient defensively. Exactly the kind of guy we need to play behind Ennis/Hodgson for the long term. Colin Wilson, Ryan O'Reilly (I know he's on a different level, but I'd love to have him) are two others I'd like us to possibly get, but I believe that if they move Roy, the best way to get value would be to trade him to a center-starved team for a winger, and then move Vanek for a center, allowing us to maximize value on another teams positions of weakness. And then to find that 3rd-line type guy for the future we could use one of our two 1st rounders to get that guy (Girgensons/Gaunce).
I could see them doing something like Vanek and Adam/Gerbe/Tropp to Colorado for Stastny and McGinn. It'd be a trade where each team moves a big salary player and a young player, but at different positions, so that Buffalo would get the experienced centerman, Colorado the winger, and then Buffalo would get a young winger, and Colorado would get a young player. I don't know if they'd do this, or if Buffalo would, but it seems like the starting point for a deal.
If we did do that, our center position wouldn't be miles better, but I'd take Stastny over Roy for sure.
It also makes Roy totally expendable, and could move him to a team for a winger instead of a center, which is one reason I believe he hasn't been dealt/doesn't have very good value, because Darcy has been trying to swap him for a veteran NHL centerman. Guys that come to mind to deal him for are, Kyle Okposo, Mason Raymond, Patric Hornqvist, Cal Clutterbuck, MPS, Brendan Morrow, Umberger, Viktor Stalberg, Troy Brouwer, Andrew Ladd, or, Jame's personal favorite, Iginla. Now, I realize that some of these clubs would have to add to a deal including some of the above listed wingers in order to get Roy, and none (besides Iginla, even at his age) are elite, but a lot of these guys add things we need on the roster, mainly size/physical play, at least most.
The more I listen to Black say Regier and Ruff are staying, and the more I hear from the players (specifically Roy, and what we've seen between Ruff and Vanek), I think at least Roy will get moved, if not Vanek as well.
Then if necessary, move Leopold for picks/prospects to save the cap space and either let McNabb/Weber/etc. battle for the last spot, or sign a veteran free agent.
How'd you manage to finagle Okposo from the Isles?
Figured they need a #2 center, and someone to take the load of JT and add a 2nd scoring line, Roy does that for them, maybe I'm wrong, but if I were the Islanders, I'd probably at least look at it... Also used some Darth Regier VooDoo on Garth Snow.
