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Sacco gets a two year extension

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Old
04-12-2012, 08:58 AM
  #101
ABasin
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This news brings joy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsWraith View Post
- The grinder's paradise that has been established here is devoid of any sort of creativity when it comes to scoring. They just shoot the puck right into the chest of the goalie a lot.
Dump it in.

-AB

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04-12-2012, 09:38 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by iAvs View Post
Exactly. We could have an all-star coaching staff behind the bench next season. But, if we ice the same squad... I'd expect the same results.

It's up to the FO to invest talent into this team. Being the youngest team in the league matters, so does the fact the Avs have been hugging the cap floor. Even with a new CBA agreement that could potentially LOWER the cap, the Avs are still in excellent shape to spend money on good players.

IMO, if people want to finger point, it should be at the FO for putting the cheapest product on the ice. I applaud them for making the moves they've made and building a strong & young core. Retaining Sacco provides stability that is important to a young team. I would like to see how Sacco does with a better squad and hopefully we make the necessary moves this summer.
I'm more interested in seeing a healthy squad. Having Duchene, Downie, and Mueller back at full health and well conditioned will be a big plus. Also, having full seasons with McGinn and Downie should also be a big plus for the squad as they can adjust easily into playing with the guys and actually have a home (and not a hotel) to live in).

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04-12-2012, 10:39 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Stories View Post
I'm more interested in seeing a healthy squad. Having Duchene, Downie, and Mueller back at full health and well conditioned will be a big plus. Also, having full seasons with McGinn and Downie should also be a big plus for the squad as they can adjust easily into playing with the guys and actually have a home (and not a hotel) to live in).
This won't solve all our problems, but it will go a long way towards making us a better team next season. I am especially looking forward to seeing Mueller's game, now that he knows he can play hockey and he can focus on improving his conditioning.

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04-12-2012, 11:45 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by AvsWraith View Post
How do you know my post isn't sarcasm?
Touche

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04-12-2012, 12:22 PM
  #105
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I guess Eilliotte Friedman of the CBC has been making statements about the increasing friction between Sacco and Duchene. He has suggested that Colorado will look to trade Duchene. I also indicated recently that Colorado would look to trade BOTH Stastny and Duchene this offseason. I don't really see how the latter is a possibility, but he apparently has said it. I can't vouche for this individual's credibility as a media personality.

I think it would be mistake to trade Duchene, because I don't believe we will receive fair value in return. I do think, for better or potentially worse, Sacco has a more of a voice with respect to personnel than perhaps any of the Avs' prior coaches.

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04-12-2012, 12:32 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
I guess Eilliotte Friedman of the CBC has been making statements about the increasing friction between Sacco and Duchene. He has suggested that Colorado will look to trade Duchene. I also indicated recently that Colorado would look to trade BOTH Stastny and Duchene this offseason. I don't really see how the latter is a possibility, but he apparently has said it. I can't vouche for this individual's credibility as a media personality.

I think it would be mistake to trade Duchene, because I don't believe we will receive fair value in return. I do think, for better or potentially worse, Sacco has a more of a voice with respect to personnel than perhaps any of the Avs' prior coaches.
You could tell as the year went on that Duchene was less than thrilled with how he was being handled by Sacco (C-Wing-C-Wing... rinse and repeat; inconsistent linemates; 4th line duty) BUT I think he is more disappointed with himself. You could tell he had NO confidence this year. Where the lack of confidence stemmed from, who knows. Duchene had an all around frustrating season. Missing 8+ weeks because of injury. No chemistry with players. Lack of production. He is only 21. Sure, I am sure there is some friction between him and Sacco, but enough to warrant him to be traded? HECK NO. It would be an enormous mistake to trade Duchene (and I would probably throw the towel in for a few months if the Avs did).

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04-12-2012, 12:38 PM
  #107
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Friction with Duchene and Sacco.... You really think we are stupid enough to choose Sacco over Duchene?

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04-12-2012, 12:40 PM
  #108
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From Elliotte Friedman's latest article:

18. Duchene was benched March 22 (played only 7:21 vs. Phoenix) then saw almost 15 minutes two nights later. But then his time-on-ice falls off a cliff. Average for the final five games: 11:40. You can sense an uneasy relationship between he and Sacco. The Avalanche dealt Chris Stewart out of nowhere. If they think Sacco is the right coach, what do they think about Duchene?


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

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04-12-2012, 12:40 PM
  #109
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Trading Duchene AND Stastny would be incredibly stupid.

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04-12-2012, 12:43 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Trading Duchene AND Stastny would be incredibly stupid.
Which is why I don't believe that at all.

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04-12-2012, 12:45 PM
  #111
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Everyone can look forward to one of the two following scenarios :

Scenario #1

2012-13 - Avs put together a decent season and squeak into the playoffs and then get bounced in 5 games in the first round.

2013-14 - Avs stumble out of the gate, team is below .500 nearing Christmas and Sacco is 'sacked'. They recover with a new coach but cannot make up enough ground to make the playoffs. [Season Lost]

OR

Scenario #2

2012-13 - Avs stumble out of the gate, team is below .500 nearing Christmas and Sacco is 'sacked'. They recover with a new coach but cannot make up enough ground to make the playoffs. [Season Lost]

Either way it represents a lost season.

I've said it before, there are really a lot of similarities with this Avs team and the 1992-93 Quebec Nordiques. That team was coming off a terrible 52 point season where the coach, Dave Chambers was fired and replaced with the GM Pierre Page. They went on to have the biggest resurgence in NHL history, that season finishing with 104 points, doubling their points from the year prior, a +52 point difference. That was due in large part to the Lindros deal, adding Ricci, Duchene, Simon, Huffman and Hextall completely changed the core of the team (Forsberg would come later) and had very little to do with coaching. That really MASKED how bad of a coach Pierre Page really was [NHL coaching record : 253W-301L-82T + has never won even ONE playoff round with any team] Page really mishandled a situation with Mats Sundin, getting caught on camera [HNIC] yelling at him on the bench during round 1 of the playoffs which couldn't have helped his cause for the following season. The Nordiques ended up with a dismal 76 points in 93-94 and missing the playoffs altogether. While they were still young, this is a team that included :

Sakic 24
Sundin 22
Kamensky 27
Ricci 21
Young 25
Kovalenko 23
Rucinsky 22
Gusarov 29
Leschyshyn 23
Foote 22
Nolan 21* (injured - only played 6 games)

That's still an excellent core and while Page also made a bad trade when he dealt Steve Duchesne to St-Louis for Garth Butcher, Ron Sutter and Bob Bassen, they should have still been good enough to make the playoffs.

Page was then fired and Lacroix was hired as GM as well as up-and-coming coach Marc Crawford [had had at least playoff success with Toronto's farm club in the AHL]. Crawford rocketed the Nords to a 30W-13L-5T record immediately the following season.

The parallels that I'm trying to draw here are that the 1993-94 season was completely LOST and wasted because management at that time, thought that they had a competent guy behind the bench when they really didn't and it wasn't even close.

This is also not unlike the Chicago situation from 2007-08. They had a young team with a head coach that couldn't get the job done and they dumped him for Quenneville after 4 games into the 2008-09 season and that was after and 88 point winning season (no playoffs). Quenneville went 45W-22L-11OTL after taking over for Denis Savard in 2008-09 and took the team to the 3rd round. He then went 52W-22L-8OTL and won the Stanley Cup the following season.

The timing in hiring a guy like Quenneville was excellent. They analyzed their team and even after an 88 point season, for an up-and-coming young team, they canned Savard in favor of Quenneville because it was the right move to evolve and move forward.

I'm very disappointed that Avs management apparently didn't go through the same analysis. I'd love to think that everything is going to be 'honky dory' from here on in but somehow I doubt it. We are going to be 1 (or more) bad trades away from getting rid of this guy and hiring a real coach. Hey, if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it but I've watched too much hockey over the past 30 years to actually think that he's going to be the right guy for this team going forward. [there are going to be casualties and repercussions for this 2 year contract, there's no doubt about it ]

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Old
04-12-2012, 12:45 PM
  #112
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I don't know what people expect Sacco to do. Feed Duchene ice time despite him being useless? When Duchene contributes positively he gets plenty of ice time.

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04-12-2012, 12:49 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWK View Post
Friction with Duchene and Sacco.... You really think we are stupid enough to choose Sacco over Duchene?
This. If there was actually enough 'friction' to suggest that the two couldn't co-exist, I highly doubt Sherman opts to extend Sacco. Sounds to me like one of the HNIC talking heads trying to start a story... God knows once the playoffs are over the ridiculous speculation will be taken to another level as well.

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04-12-2012, 12:57 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
From Elliotte Friedman's latest article:

18. Duchene was benched March 22 (played only 7:21 vs. Phoenix) then saw almost 15 minutes two nights later. But then his time-on-ice falls off a cliff. Average for the final five games: 11:40. You can sense an uneasy relationship between he and Sacco. The Avalanche dealt Chris Stewart out of nowhere. If they think Sacco is the right coach, what do they think about Duchene?


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html
link doesn't work.

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04-12-2012, 01:00 PM
  #115
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This news is kind of whatever to me. I don't think Sacco is as big of an issue as people here make him out to be. Its not like he has the power to just suck the skill out of players.

Under Sacco:
-Mueller had 20 points in 15 games after having only 17 points in 54 games under Jack Adams winner Dave Tippet.
-Downie averaged .65 points per game in Colorado, while averaging .51 in Tampa
-McGinn went from .39 to .76 points per game.
-Fleischmann scored a point per game here.
-Career highs for players: Stastny-79, Duchene-67, Landeskog-52, O'Reilly-55, Stewart-64
-Finished with the 12th best PK, and the 9th best powerplay.

My only complaint is playing Johnson only 19-21 minutes for a large part of the season. Even with that however, Johnson really turned his play around over the course of the season.

Obviously its not all Sacco, but he puts players in positions to succeed given the options he has. Why should he not deserve a year where the Avs aren't the youngest team with the lowest payroll?

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04-12-2012, 01:04 PM
  #116
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When reading Duchene quotes from the stretch, I don't think it's a big deal to him. I think it even might help him going forward to have played injured and sacrifice himself to help the team. He did sound frustrated but I think it was more about the bad luck he had this year. I got the impression that him trying to help the team was important to him and he is looking forward to showing everyone what he can do next year.

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04-12-2012, 01:05 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
This news is kind of whatever to me. I don't think Sacco is as big of an issue as people here make him out to be. Its not like he has the power to just suck the skill out of players.

Under Sacco:
-Mueller had 20 points in 15 games after having only 17 points in 54 games under Jack Adams winner Dave Tippet.
-Downie averaged .65 points per game in Colorado, while averaging .51 in Tampa
-McGinn went from .39 to .76 points per game.
-Fleischmann scored a point per game here.
-Career highs for players: Stastny-79, Duchene-67, Landeskog-52, O'Reilly-55, Stewart-64
-Finished with the 12th best PK, and the 9th best powerplay.

My only complaint is playing Johnson only 19-21 minutes for a large part of the season. Even with that however, Johnson really turned his play around over the course of the season.

Obviously its not all Sacco, but he puts players in positions to succeed given the options he has. Why should he not deserve a year where the Avs aren't the youngest team with the lowest payroll?

Most of those players never played for a coach other than sacco...

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04-12-2012, 01:08 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsFanRCN View Post
Most of those players never played for a coach other than sacco...
Okay, setting aside the fact that Stewart, Mueller, Downie, McGinn, Wolski, and Flash all had their most productive stretches under Sacco, what does it matter? The point was that players still produce very well while playing for him.

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04-12-2012, 01:15 PM
  #119
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Personally I'm indifferent towards Sacco. I would not have hired him in the first place, but I also don't see why the avs wouldn't bring him back. What exactly were the expectations for Sacco since he became coach in 2009? Let's not consider avs fans because there's partiality, but what were the expectations for this team the last 3 seasons from people around hockey?

He had the youngest team and the smallest payroll in the league and coached them to a .500 record. When the team does well, everybody says it's due to the players, when the team does poor, we give all the credit to the coach.

Sacco is still a fairly young coach, who just like the players is also learning. If he falters, the team can always fire him but there's not really that many viable options for coach. Jacques Martin was just as unpopular among Hab fans as Sacco is here. Some you guys will turn on him too. It's just a matter of time.

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04-12-2012, 01:16 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I don't know what people expect Sacco to do. Feed Duchene ice time despite him being useless? When Duchene contributes positively he gets plenty of ice time.
I know. I said the same thing. Freidman went on Fan960 in Calgary 2 times saying that Duchene was unhappy with his ice time. I think this a case of Freidman looking at stat sheets and making assessments. Duchene's play didn't warrant any extra ice time, and he likely should have been scratched down the stretch. Duchene knows how bad he played, he will improve in the off season. I expect a bounce back season from him next year.

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04-12-2012, 01:33 PM
  #121
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I think the Hitchcock hiring messed with peoples expectations of what a coaching change can bring. What happened in St Louis is a unique situation. The team was ready to take the next step and the team was pretty much the perfect Hitchcock team (apart from Stewart). That the only move that was made was Russell for Nikitin is a testament to how good a fit it is.

Meanwhile, most of the other new coaches this year has struggled to get results. Even Boudreau and Muller who got a lot of praise during the season provided no more than a 87 and 89 point pace as coaches of their teams. Carlyle didn't get a lot out of the Leafs. Cunneyworth bombed with Montreal.

I agree that the right coach at the right time might provide a team with a boost. But I think it is very unlikely that if we had dumped Sacco during the low point of the season (mid-December) that a new coach would have done better for the rest of the year. Avs did play at a 96 point pace after that and I guess it was enough to bring Sacco back.

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04-12-2012, 02:07 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think the Hitchcock hiring messed with peoples expectations of what a coaching change can bring. What happened in St Louis is a unique situation. The team was ready to take the next step and the team was pretty much the perfect Hitchcock team (apart from Stewart). That the only move that was made was Russell for Nikitin is a testament to how good a fit it is.

Meanwhile, most of the other new coaches this year has struggled to get results. Even Boudreau and Muller who got a lot of praise during the season provided no more than a 87 and 89 point pace as coaches of their teams. Carlyle didn't get a lot out of the Leafs. Cunneyworth bombed with Montreal.

I agree that the right coach at the right time might provide a team with a boost. But I think it is very unlikely that if we had dumped Sacco during the low point of the season (mid-December) that a new coach would have done better for the rest of the year. Avs did play at a 96 point pace after that and I guess it was enough to bring Sacco back.
Yeah

People make it sound like Hitchcock is some kind of magician or something. He came in and turned a terrible Blues team into a power house?

No, Blues were already a power house team before Hitchcock, they were just playing badly under a different coach. If Hitchcock was a magician he would turn the Jackets into power house.

Bottom line is, teams need good players up and down the roster to be successful. Avs lack good players in some areas to take that next step, mainly they lack a top d-man or two, and they lack a leader, a true captain, and also they need some consistent scoring up front.

I bet you Avs would of missed the playoffs even with Hitchcock behind the bench this year.

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04-12-2012, 02:16 PM
  #123
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If we lose Duchene for anything other then a Seguin, Eberle caliber player I'll be very depressed.

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04-12-2012, 02:23 PM
  #124
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In 2009 Ken Hitchcock took this team to the playoffs.

Huselius - Vermette - Nash
Umberger - Brassard - Voracek
Torres - Pahlsson - Dorsett
Chimera - Murray - Boll
Clark

Stralman - Tyutin
Russell - Hejda
Commodore - Klesla
Methot

Mason
Garon


The fact he got THAT into the playoffs is a testament to his coaching alone.

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04-12-2012, 02:25 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
Yeah

People make it sound like Hitchcock is some kind of magician or something. He came in and turned a terrible Blues team into a power house?

No, Blues were already a power house team before Hitchcock, they were just playing badly under a different coach. If Hitchcock was a magician he would turn the Jackets into power house.

Bottom line is, teams need good players up and down the roster to be successful. Avs lack good players in some areas to take that next step, mainly they lack a top d-man or two, and they lack a leader, a true captain, and also they need some consistent scoring up front.

I bet you Avs would of missed the playoffs even with Hitchcock behind the bench this year.
Probably, but that's because the Avs' players don't really fit Hitchcock's system. I think the coach that fits the Avs' players the best is BB, the run and gun style he used when he first started coaching the Caps.

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