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Will Paul Martin get benched?

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Old
04-12-2012, 09:23 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Yeah, agree. 1 bad game doesn't justify benching an established NHL defenseman.
It's not just one bad game. It's a year's worth of putting up with this ****.

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04-12-2012, 09:24 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Letang had a bad game because of two critical instances: inexplicably letting Schenn get his stick on that puck even though you could smell the play coming, and mishandling the puck on the Vorecek goal (even though Staal didn't help)

Martin was piss poor the entire game. The ENTIRE game, and right behind him was Michalek. Orpik was actually fine until he took his obligatory "stupid penalty of the day".
i know! we'll bench lovejoy that will teach em.

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04-12-2012, 09:35 AM
  #103
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Instead of sacrificing a goat, baby, or whatever we gave the Hockey Gods in 2009, can we offer Martin instead? And maybe some Free Candy for dessert?

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04-12-2012, 10:36 AM
  #104
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honestly people? every game, a new martin sucks thread.

if we were as hard on our other players as we are on martin...everyone but a hand full of guys would be benched after last night. Martin was one of our better d-men.

Why are people so obsessed with physical play? Did Hal Gill hit anyone? No. Did Rob Scuderi hit anyone? No. Did Mark Eaton hit anyone? No. And those are just the defensemen people have called for this year... physicality does not mean you are amazing.

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04-12-2012, 10:47 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by millzee53 View Post
honestly people? every game, a new martin sucks thread.

if we were as hard on our other players as we are on martin...everyone but a hand full of guys would be benched after last night. Martin was one of our better d-men.

Why are people so obsessed with physical play? Did Hal Gill hit anyone? No. Did Rob Scuderi hit anyone? No. Did Mark Eaton hit anyone? No. And those are just the defensemen people have called for this year... physicality does not mean you are amazing.
atleast those guys played like they actually cared about winning

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04-12-2012, 11:10 AM
  #106
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Paul Martin: 5mil cap hit, age 31

versus

Michal Rozsival: 5mil cap hit, age 33
James Wisniewski: 5.5mil cap hit, age 28
Sergei Gonchar: 5.5mil cap hit, age 37
Tomas Kaberle: 4.25mil cap hit, age 34

Other defensemen have been signed to worse deals. That being said...

Anton Volchenkov: 4.25mil cap hit, age 30
Dan Hamhuis: 4.5mil cap hit, age 29
Pavel Kubina: $3.85mil cap hit for two years (ends this year), age 35

Considering we wanted Hamhuis to begin with and the calling for Volchenkov among the fan base due to his usually stellar post-season play on a usually horrible post-season team as compared to Paul Martin's subpar post-season play on a subpar post-season team, Paul Martin's deal sucks.

We're not in major league baseball. We can't sign a player to a five year deal for a lot of cash and be happy with one year of solid production.

EDIT:







Last edited by Boocock: 04-12-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old
04-12-2012, 11:35 AM
  #107
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its so funny that we lose a game and everyone immediately jumps on Paul Martin. News flash...he wasn't why we lost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by malkovsby View Post
atleast those guys played like they actually cared about winning
thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You don't know what martin cares about.

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Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
Paul Martin: 5mil cap hit, age 31

versus

Michal Rozsival: 5mil cap hit, age 33
James Wisniewski: 5.5mil cap hit, age 28
Sergei Gonchar: 5.5mil cap hit, age 37
Tomas Kaberle: 4.25mil cap hit, age 34

Other defensemen have been signed to worse deals. That being said...

Anton Volchenkov: 4.25mil cap hit, age 30
Dan Hamhuis: 4.5mil cap hit, age 29
Pavel Kubina: $3.85mil cap hit for two years (ends this year), age 35

Considering we wanted Hamhuis to begin with and the calling for Volchenkov among the fan base due to his usually stellar post-season play on a usually horrible post-season team as compared to Paul Martin's subpar post-season play on a subpar post-season team, Paul Martin's deal sucks.

We're not in major league baseball. We can't sign a player to a five year deal for a lot of cash and be happy with one year of solid production.
wow those YT videos definitely prove you point... its not like there are youtube videos of everyone getting beat multiple times...


Last edited by DoctrSteveBrule: 04-12-2012 at 11:40 AM.
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04-12-2012, 11:45 AM
  #108
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wow those YT videos definitely prove you point... its not like there are youtube videos of everyone getting beat multiple times...
This is what a YouTube search for "Paul Martin Hockey" looks like.

Page 1: Getting beat, Interviews, Goals
Page 2: Getting beat, Interviews, Highlights of Same Goals
Page 3: Chris Paul Highlights

I kid you not. That should be a warning sign right there.

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Old
04-12-2012, 11:45 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
Instead of sacrificing a goat, baby, or whatever we gave the Hockey Gods in 2009, can we offer Martin instead?
That wouldn't be a sacrifice.

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04-12-2012, 11:46 AM
  #110
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It's not just one bad game. It's a year's worth of putting up with this ****.
I haven't watched him all year, just last night. I only base it off of pens fans in the main forums, they argued Martin was a legit top 4. I didn't know he played bad all year.

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04-12-2012, 11:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Iffyiffiffer View Post
Shero made a huge mistake getting this guy
This is a blasphemous statement in this neck of the woods partner. The man is generally regarded as a quantum leap up from …... enter your choice of characters here!

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Old
04-12-2012, 11:53 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
This is what a YouTube search for "Paul Martin Hockey" looks like.

Page 1: Getting beat, Interviews, Goals
Page 2: Getting beat, Interviews, Highlights of Same Goals
Page 3: Chris Paul Highlights

I kid you not. That should be a warning sign right there.
again, you need to realize the source here. Why would there be any videos of paul martin doing good stuff on youtube? A) everyone hates him and B) he's not an exciting player who makes highlight reel worthy plays. You aren't going to find his breakout passes on youtube...which is what he does.

if you're judging players based on the number of YT videos of mistakes they've made than there is really no point in having this argument.


Last edited by DoctrSteveBrule: 04-12-2012 at 12:00 PM.
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04-12-2012, 12:06 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by millzee53 View Post
again, you need to realize the source here. Why would there be any videos of paul martin doing good stuff on youtube? A) everyone hates him and B) he's not an exciting player who makes highlight reel worthy plays. You aren't going to find his breakout passes on youtube...which is what he does.
Fine...

4:56


Not a breakout pass, but 2:12


0:30 and 2:07 (Not a breakout pass, but he did a solid job skating)


3:50


So yes, there are positive Paul Martin highlights on the web if you're willing to look.

Do you want to hear the "constructive criticism" I've gathered from those highlights? Put him on the ice when Staal's line is out there. He meshes well with their simple approach to the game.

Nevertheless, I don't think the sum of his game is worth $5mil.

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04-12-2012, 12:14 PM
  #114
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And really the only Martin would ever make a highlight is by doing something wrong. He doesn't throw hits, and he doesn't score goals.

Your point is beat.

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04-12-2012, 12:15 PM
  #115
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Well now that our coaching staff is starting to see the light with the PP, maybe they will with Martin. Put him with Engelland and limit his minutes. Unfortunately Nisky needs to get healthy for that to happen.

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04-12-2012, 12:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And really the only Martin would ever make a highlight is by doing something wrong. He doesn't throw hits, and he doesn't score goals.

Your point is beat.
Incorrect. I found positive Paul Martin highlights on the web. Therefore, the web is a worthwhile source for information and the study of the game of hockey. Through diligent research, one can find plenty of answers to important questions on a plethora of subjects. My point stands. Here's a link if you want to read more.

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04-12-2012, 12:22 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
So yes, there are positive Paul Martin highlights on the web if you're willing to look.

Do you want to hear the "constructive criticism" I've gathered from those highlights? Put him on the ice when Staal's line is out there. He meshes well with their simple approach to the game.

Nevertheless, I don't think the sum of his game is worth $5mil.
I wish someone like Erhoff was on our team so you could see a player who REALLY ison a bad contract or Grabovski. Because we are blessed that our overpaid player is a solid D-man who is 1-2 mil overpaid for a couple of years and not completely out of his league.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
Incorrect. I found positive Paul Martin highlights on the web. Therefore, the web is a worthwhile source for information and the study of the game of hockey. Through diligent research, one can find plenty of answers to important questions on a plethora of subjects. My point stands. Here's a link if you want to read more.
you realize what all the videos prove right? its that if you check pretty much every game highlight you'll see all the things he does well but people highlight and point out the mistakes. Thats why he still sees top minutes, because the coaches watch the whole game and don't check youtube to decide who to play.

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04-12-2012, 12:24 PM
  #118
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I wish someone like Erhoff was on our team so you could see a player who REALLY ison a bad contract or Grabovski. Because we are blessed that our overpaid player is a solid D-man who is 1-2 mil overpaid for a couple of years and not completely out of his league.
Referencing a 10 year contract and a Maple Leaf? That's taking the easy way out.

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you realize what all the videos prove right? its that if you check pretty much every game highlight you'll see all the things he does well but people highlight and point out the mistakes. Thats why he still sees top minutes, because the coaches watch the whole game and don't check youtube to decide who to play.
Yes, I realize this. I gathered the data, you know. Compared to last year, he makes far too many mistakes.

Put Martin with Orpik and Letang with Michalek. Left-Left and Right-Right is a concern, I'll admit that. But Orpik has what Martin doesn't, vice versa is true as well. Letang will be great with anyone.

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04-12-2012, 12:30 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
Incorrect. I found positive Paul Martin highlights on the web. Therefore, the web is a worthwhile source for information and the study of the game of hockey. Through diligent research, one can find plenty of answers to important questions on a plethora of subjects. My point stands. Here's a link if you want to read more.
Incorrect. The web is a worthwhile source of information when said person is not being subjective. You are not. You are trying to find highlights of a guy who, if playing his game, does very little that is highlight worthy. He's not going to make end to end rushes, he doesn't have a booming shot, and he's not going to lay guys out. Rather, when on his game, he plays a steady, cerebral 25 minutes against other teams top players. So that really sets him up to be beat on a one-on-one play, or be encompassed in a bunch of low-lights.

Your point is beat...as I said before.

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04-12-2012, 12:31 PM
  #120
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Watching Martin in a playoff series is extremely frustrating..... no urgency or physicality whatsoever.

He is the type of player that does not dictate the flow of the game - he is reactionary in nature. You know he isn't going to engage in any physical stuff either.

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04-12-2012, 12:32 PM
  #121
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Referencing a 10 year contract and a Maple Leaf? That's taking the easy way out.
How about Scotty Upshall?
or James Wisniewski?
Andrei Markov?
Shawn Horcoff?

those are TERRIBLE contracts. Martin's is 'meh' comparatively speaking.

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04-12-2012, 12:39 PM
  #122
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guys,

last game of the season when we beat Fliers at home we played Stephen McIntyre, and started Mark-Andrew Fluery but took him out halfway to play Brett Johnstown. Think we need to d0 any of those things to win again at home???? Because if my math is write, we need to win at least 1 game at console to win the series and then we have to win all the games at flier arena.

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04-12-2012, 12:50 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Incorrect. The web is a worthwhile source of information when said person is not being subjective. You are not. You are trying to find highlights of a guy who, if playing his game, does very little that is highlight worthy. He's not going to make end to end rushes, he doesn't have a booming shot, and he's not going to lay guys out. Rather, when on his game, he plays a steady, cerebral 25 minutes against other teams top players. So that really sets him up to be beat on a one-on-one play, or be encompassed in a bunch of low-lights.

Your point is beat...as I said before.
No, it's not, as I said before. The web is a worthwhile source of information when said person is not being subjective. I am objective. I want Paul Martin to work in Pittsburgh. I went and found positive Paul Martin highlights. They do exist. Therefore, since I displayed both sides of the argument through video, I am displaying objectivity. Siting the same strong points of Paul Martin's game will not help your point since, as I've already proven, I am being objective. My id may be getting a bit of pleasure out of stating that, which makes my objectivity quite possibly a subjective claim, but you can't win them all.

There are videos of Paul Martin making good plays and videos of Paul Martin making poor plays. That's all there is to it. If I went through all of those videos and found plays where Paul Martin made a mistake that led to a goal for the opposing team, I could. It works both ways.

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Originally Posted by millzee53 View Post
How about Scotty Upshall?
or James Wisniewski?
Andrei Markov?
Shawn Horcoff?

those are TERRIBLE contracts. Martin's is 'meh' comparatively speaking.
Scotty Upshall was signed to a high priced contract as a result of a high demand, low supply market. It makes Tyler Kennedy's contract look like a discount. Wisniewski's contract is bad. Shawn Horcoff is definitely overpaid. There really is no excuse for Markov's contract. He became an injury liability during his previous contract. Now, the Canadiens are stuck with him. Frankly, it's sad. When he's healthy, he's amazing.

So yes, those are bad contracts and there is no way to get around that. And I do understand your argument. If the player can be a solid contributor to your club, it's a good contract. That's why Brian Campbell, at $2mil above Paul Martin, is what I would consider to be an "average" contract. There's absolutely no way a player like Brian Campbell would lose a playoff game for his team. But, you could probably find similar production at a lower price. The same can be said of Paul Martin.

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04-12-2012, 01:07 PM
  #124
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Scotty Upshall was signed to a high priced contract as a result of a high demand, low supply market. It makes Tyler Kennedy's contract look like a discount. Wisniewski's contract is bad. Shawn Horcoff is definitely overpaid. There really is no excuse for Markov's contract. He became an injury liability during his previous contract. Now, the Canadiens are stuck with him. Frankly, it's sad. When he's healthy, he's amazing.

So yes, those are bad contracts and there is no way to get around that. And I do understand your argument. If the player can be a solid contributor to your club, it's a good contract. That's why Brian Campbell, at $2mil above Paul Martin, is what I would consider to be an "average" contract. There's absolutely no way a player like Brian Campbell would lose a playoff game for his team. But, you could probably find similar production at a lower price. The same can be said of Paul Martin.
sit back and watch what happens in FA this summer and next. You will be seeing players much much much worse than Paul Martin getting 5+ milion. This is FA, we're talking about...

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04-12-2012, 01:09 PM
  #125
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Once Niskanen gets back (I agree with what was said earlier):

Letang - Orpik
Niskanen - Michalek
Martin - Engo

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