sit back and watch what happens in FA this summer and next. You will be seeing players much much much worse than Paul Martin getting 5+ milion. This is FA, we're talking about...
This is just my opinion, but comparing a 2010 signing to a 2012 or 2013 signing might not be a smart way to engage in analysis. Compared to players signed during the 2010 off-season, he does not look like a solid signing. He looks like a "meh' signing.
Yes, Paul Martin will look like a good cap hit during the final two years of his contract due to a rising salary cap, increased demand, and higher salaries across the board. I'll admit that. Right now, he's a better signing that Jovanovski, Kaberle, Markov, etc.
And, oh boy, I personally can't wait to watch teams overpay for players like Alex Semin, Willie Mitchell, Brad Stuart, John Oduya, etc. And, his contact is much, much better than the one the Oilers signed Sheldon Souray to a few years back. That was a historically horrible signing.
I care about the 2010 signings. Compared to those signings, he looks pretty meh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound
Once Niskanen gets back (I agree with what was said earlier):
Letang - Orpik
Niskanen - Michalek
Martin - Engo
Make sure Martin keeps his PK minutes, where he's a solid contributor for this team, and that looks fine.
Once Niskanen gets back (I agree with what was said earlier):
Letang - Orpik
Niskanen - Michalek
Martin - Engo
Part of me wonders where this defense would be if the organization had said '**** it, Morrow was one of the top six in camp, so he deserves his 10 games and should stay if he proves it like Staal did six years ago'.
There was a time when this organization would go with the young player and deal with the growing pains if there was a positive trend line, because you'd see the payoff late in the season and in the playoffs (like the Flyers are now with their rookie forwards).
At the very least, the best PP defenseman in the organization wouldn't be in Portland.
In a way, you could have made the same argument about Despres the previous year. And, as I noted in another thread, you could even make the same argument about Tangradi.
There's no plan to bring along the talented young kids, even the first rounders. You make a mistake, and you can kiss you *** goodbye. And, what you're stuck with is a situation where you've got a pair of limited minimum wage defensemen who can't pick up the slack when a Martin falters.
Nisky will help, so I like your pairings. By the way, Michalek and Niskanen did play a game together this calendar year. It was the one time Michalek played LD. In New York, the 4-1 win, the Pens best defensive game of the year and, frankly, Michalek's too.
What does Paul Martin do well? NOTHING. He makes a decent pass once in a while, but to hear the adulation he gets it's like making a tape to tape pass is suddenly some ****ing lost art.
He's terrible. ****ing awful. He was openly avoiding being hit at the expense of allowing the Flyers to get to pucks first, and once again, he's a black hole in the offensive zone.
I'm sorry, but right now, I'd rather have Mark Eaton back.
I like the idea of reuniting Orpik/Letang. Nisky/Michalek and Martin/Engelland worked before and it allows us a puck mover on every pairing and helps us match up against deep offensive teams.
What does Paul Martin do well? NOTHING. He makes a decent pass once in a while, but to hear the adulation he gets it's like making a tape to tape pass is suddenly some ****ing lost art.
He's terrible. ****ing awful. He was openly avoiding being hit at the expense of allowing the Flyers to get to pucks first, and once again, he's a black hole in the offensive zone.
I'm sorry, but right now, I'd rather have Mark Eaton back.
You know what? We can go back and forth when we disagree on coaching. There's a very subjective debate there regardless of which side you're on.
How the **** this guy is still being defended is now beyond me when you use a simple eye test. His defense to me is one of the most mind boggling things I've experienced as a fan of this team.
Paul Martin is a **** hockey player. There's no debate to be had.
You know what? We can go back and forth when we disagree on coaching. There's a very subjective debate there regardless of which side you're on.
How the **** this guy is still being defended is now beyond me when you use a simple eye test. His defense to me is one of the most mind boggling things I've experienced as a fan of this team.
Paul Martin is a **** hockey player. There's no debate to be had.
I don't think we disagree about the coaching as much as we disagree about its impact, but, yeah, I know what you're saying (that said, I do wonder what last night's outcome would've been if the coaches had flipped sides after the first).
But, you're 100% right on Martin.
And, to answer the WHY question, here it is: The trap insulated Martin from the heavier forechecking. A system where the forwards collapsed protected him. It placed less emphasis on his needing to be physical and provided a situation where there would be maximum value for his stick work and short first passes. But, some here saw the skating and the passing and saw only what might be in terms of the offensive game in the Pens system that they forgot how the defensive game would translate to an environment where defensemen are less insulated and required to be more physical.
Even in hindsight, letting Scuderi go was the right call. There was no way we were going to have the cap room to bring him back.
In hindsight and at the time, letting Hal Gill go was a gigantic mistake. We had the cap room. We wanted to spend it on other assets. Those assets did not help the team.
I never understood why we let both of them go and then the year after we spend significantly more in unproven players in our system.
We're definitely missing a stay-at-home dimension to our D corps. Maybe pairing Michalek with a puckmover in Nisky will get his shutdown game back on track.
Scuds was fantastic last night. Watched every minute of that game.
I'd take a combined $5.75M of Gill and Scuds right now than $9M of Martin and Michalek.
I'd take the combined 1.7M of Despres and Morrow.
I keep saying this. What if you'd have kept Despres up last season when he was top six in camp? What if you'd have done the same with Morrow? That whole 'well, we want them to get more experience and don't want to rush them' thing is ****. What both needed was a little bulk, but can you tell me that either would've been less physical than Martin or, for that matter, Michalek? What both needed was to learn the speed and situations, especially defensively, of the NHL game, but how do they learn that in lesser leagues?
This is why all of these teams, even the good ones, are keeping these young kids up. If it's a question of not having experience or needing a little bulk and not of talent, then organizations are dealing with it. But, here's the great elephant in the room: Bylsma doesn't have the patience to deal with talented young picks. AHL guys, no problem. But, give me a guy who's talent dictates that he belongs but will need to be thrown into the deep end, make mistakes, and then grow, and you'll just NEVER see it.
I'll put it this way: The Pens had a ton of one way contracts in 2006, but talent dictated that Staal belonged and Therrien, for all his faults (a) saw the talent, (b) knew there would be a learning curve, and (c) was adamant that the organization keep him up (even though you were talking 3M in a day when the Pens budget didn't dictate). If Sean Courturier had been drafted by the Pens this year, would he have made the Bylsma Penguins or been sent back to juniors? I am hard pressed to argue the former.
I never understood why we let both of them go and then the year after we spend significantly more in unproven players in our system.
We're definitely missing a stay-at-home dimension to our D corps. Maybe pairing Michalek with a puckmover in Nisky will get his shutdown game back on track.
Said it before and will say it again: Best game Michalek played this year was with Orpik out in NY. That's the one the Pens won 4-1. Michalek played LD and with Nisky I believe.
People are convinced on here that Niskanen sucked with elevated minutes. But I too remember that game and they looked great together.
Martin started playing a hell of a lot better when seeing lesser minutes and with a crease clearer in Engelland.
Niskanen didn't suck with elevated minutes, but cracks showed. It's a legitimate complaint. On the other hand, Martin's game with elevated (or often any) minutes is revealing ******* craters. Comparatively, Paul Martin has made me utter words that would make any full or part time (like me as a city resident) Stars fan cringe: I miss Matt Niskanen.
I cringe every second that he is on the ice. The playoffs are about speed and intensity and this guy has 0% of either. I'm tired of hearing that having a veteran with experience is a must. Watching Martin being constantly beat to loose pucks made me damn near throw my tv out the window. I just don't understand why he continues to log bit time minutes.
I keep saying this. What if you'd have kept Despres up last season when he was top six in camp? What if you'd have done the same with Morrow? That whole 'well, we want them to get more experience and don't want to rush them' thing is ****. What both needed was a little bulk, but can you tell me that either would've been less physical than Martin or, for that matter, Michalek? What both needed was to learn the speed and situations, especially defensively, of the NHL game, but how do they learn that in lesser leagues?
This is why all of these teams, even the good ones, are keeping these young kids up. If it's a question of not having experience or needing a little bulk and not of talent, then organizations are dealing with it. But, here's the great elephant in the room: Bylsma doesn't have the patience to deal with talented young picks. AHL guys, no problem. But, give me a guy who's talent dictates that he belongs but will need to be thrown into the deep end, make mistakes, and then grow, and you'll just NEVER see it.
I'll put it this way: The Pens had a ton of one way contracts in 2006, but talent dictated that Staal belonged and Therrien, for all his faults (a) saw the talent, (b) knew there would be a learning curve, and (c) was adamant that the organization keep him up (even though you were talking 3M in a day when the Pens budget didn't dictate). If Sean Courturier had been drafted by the Pens this year, would he have made the Bylsma Penguins or been sent back to juniors? I am hard pressed to argue the former.
Couldn't agree more, who was the last prospect to get any kind of extended look and i mean extended, not 5 mins of ice time. Joe Vitale got such a look this year because not only was he a AHLer but a grinder as well. Since DB came here the forward prospect development has gone to ****.
The only thing I can't figure out is why it took most people so long to figure out that Matin is a useless POS. He was absolutely terrible vs. TB last year too.
Couldn't agree more, who was the last prospect to get any kind of extended look and i mean extended, not 5 mins of ice time. Joe Vitale got such a look this year because not only was he a AHLer but a grinder as well. Since DB came here the forward prospect development has gone to ****.
We've had no forwards to develop.
Couturier and Schenn are near top first round picks, not 3rd rounders. There's a difference.
Tangradi,Jeffrey, and what about Read for them, that guy was undrafted.
Like I said, no forward prospects to speak of.
Even as top picks, Couturier and Schenn started VERY low on the depth chart, and essentially still are. Couturier's playing a 4th line shutdown role, and Schenn is only now getting a sniff of playing on the top six after EARNING it.
Read was a guy they called in for a tryout because that's how impressed they were with him. Read can skate, Tangradi and Jeffrey can't.
