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Carolina/Vancouver proposal:

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Old
11-26-2004, 06:27 PM
  #1
Reign Nateo
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Carolina/Vancouver proposal:

Well I'm bored...

To Vancouver:
RW Justin Williams

To Carolina:
D Bryan Allen

Reasoning: Carolina needs some defencemen, and a big, mean, young guy like Allen would help a lot. Plus they have a lot of talented wingers to fill the vacancy left by Williams who doesn't seem to fit there. O'Neill, Bayda, Cole, Vrbata, Vasicek etc. can all fill that role. Williams should be playing in a top six role...

Vasicek-Staal-O'Neill
Cole-Brind-Amour-Vrbata
Bayda-Cullen-Kahnberg?
Boulerice-Adams-Brendl?

From the Canucks point of view, they need a young RW with some speed that they can put with the Sedins, and have the defensive depth to part with Allen, although I'm sure they would be hesitant, in fact I doubt Allen is dealt. For the sake of a proposal, the Canucks would have to sign a mean vet. like Todd Simpson to fill the gap left by Allen...

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Williams
Cooke-Chubarov-Linden
May-Kesler-Ruutu

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Old
11-26-2004, 06:42 PM
  #2
Nazzy-19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Well I'm bored...

To Vancouver:
RW Justin Williams

To Carolina:
D Bryan Allen

Reasoning: Carolina needs some defencemen, and a big, mean, young guy like Allen would help a lot. Plus they have a lot of talented wingers to fill the vacancy left by Williams who doesn't seem to fit there. O'Neill, Bayda, Cole, Vrbata, Vasicek etc. can all fill that role. Williams should be playing in a top six role...

Vasicek-Staal-O'Neill
Cole-Brind-Amour-Vrbata
Bayda-Cullen-Kahnberg?
Boulerice-Adams-Brendl?

From the Canucks point of view, they need a young RW with some speed that they can put with the Sedins, and have the defensive depth to part with Allen, although I'm sure they would be hesitant, in fact I doubt Allen is dealt. For the sake of a proposal, the Canucks would have to sign a mean vet. like Todd Simpson to fill the gap left by Allen...

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Williams
Cooke-Chubarov-Linden
May-Kesler-Ruutu
A few reasons this will never happen. The Canucks are high on Bryan Allen and need another defenseman like him. Second, the canucks have a young RW that they can put with the Sedins in King. What they need is an established physical RW like O'Neil to play with the Sedins.

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Old
11-26-2004, 06:48 PM
  #3
bleedgreen
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i like it from the canes end, though i dont want to trade williams. he IS a top 6 forward on the canes, so its not like he isnt being used. he played the last half of the year with staal....and well. when everyone was talking oneill trade earlier in the year i figured the only canuck the canes would want is allen. they need young d, especially physical guys - allen is a good fit although i know nuck fans are rabid about mentioning him in trade talk. kolstov doesnt do a lot for the canes with fast and richmond on their way - and nuck fans usually would rather him than allen go. i would prefer allen for oneill - but i think williams for allen isnt out of whack value wise at all. williams is at the top of the list in wingers that you mentioned. we may have a lot of them - but right now williams, oneill, cole and ladd are the only ones that i feel are legit for the lineup (top 6 anyway). i know a lot of canes fans would want to put vrbata up there, but im not one of them.

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Old
11-26-2004, 08:03 PM
  #4
sunb
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Trading Williams for Allen creates another hole for the Canucks' defense and that hole would be potentially harder to fill than having King substitute for a bona-fide 2nd liner.

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Old
11-26-2004, 08:06 PM
  #5
Lionel Hutz
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The Canucks are very high on Allen, I don't think this would work.

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Old
11-26-2004, 08:12 PM
  #6
kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Trading Williams for Allen creates another hole for the Canucks' defense and that hole would be potentially harder to fill than having King substitute for a bona-fide 2nd liner.
Yup. We are absolutely barren for defensive prospects, and I don't think Aitken would be capable of logging top-six minutes. Not even gonna get into how we actually need to ADD grit and toughness, rather than subtract it.

Good deal value-wise, just doesn't meet the interests of Vancouver in any way.

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Old
11-26-2004, 08:25 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Yup. We are absolutely barren for defensive prospects, and I don't think Aitken would be capable of logging top-six minutes. Not even gonna get into how we actually need to ADD grit and toughness, rather than subtract it.

Good deal value-wise, just doesn't meet the interests of Vancouver in any way.
Aitken is struggling in the AHL, I don't even like him as our 7th man.

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Old
11-26-2004, 09:18 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Trading Williams for Allen creates another hole for the Canucks' defense and that hole would be potentially harder to fill than having King substitute for a bona-fide 2nd liner.
agreed 100%.

I like Williams, and the trade value is fair, but I think we need Allen way too much right now, not only because we lack defensive depth past the top 6, but also we need another player like him, not to subtract him.

IMO Allen + King is better for the team overall than Williams + Simpson (or another UFA signing like him).

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Old
11-26-2004, 09:34 PM
  #9
kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
agreed 100%.

I like Williams, and the trade value is fair, but I think we need Allen way too much right now, not only because we lack defensive depth past the top 6, but also we need another player like him, not to subtract him.
way to say exactly what I said

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Old
11-27-2004, 04:25 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
way to say exactly what I said

way to use the emotion I always use

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Old
11-27-2004, 04:50 AM
  #11
mazmin
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Here's an odd spin:

Allen - Sopel - 3rd rounder

for

O'Neil - Dawson or Curry or Trojovsky (possible Allen-types but far from definite) - 5th rounder

This deal solidifies Carolina's defense big time.

Nucks get a guy who can add grit and finish to the Sedin line. He was also a linemate of Bertuzzi in Guelph back in their OHL days.

Canes fans will probably demand a bit more but it's always hard when trading apples for oranges.

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Old
11-27-2004, 06:10 AM
  #12
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so we go from adding a top six forward for the sedins with only losing one important part of the d to adding a top six forward for the sedins at the expense of TWO defensemen...

to be honest, this deal does less for vancouver than the 1st does

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Old
11-27-2004, 09:14 AM
  #13
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
way to say exactly what I said
sorry, I wasn't totally sober last night when responding to some of the posts here

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Old
11-27-2004, 09:30 AM
  #14
Ajacied
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I think Williams can get more, personally.

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Old
11-27-2004, 10:44 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
I think Williams can get more, personally.
How so? Wasn't it a 1 on 1 deal for Markov before?

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Old
11-27-2004, 10:54 AM
  #16
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
How so? Wasn't it a 1 on 1 deal for Markov before?
Markov is and was a lot more established at the time of the trade. He's a lot more of a sure thing than Allen is at the moment. Plus, why would the Canes deal a defenseman for Williams only to trade Williams for a defenseman once again, doesn't make any sense.

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Old
11-27-2004, 11:03 AM
  #17
cyrisweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
From the Canucks point of view, they need a young RW with some speed that they can put with the Sedins, and have the defensive depth to part with Allen, although I'm sure they would be hesitant, in fact I doubt Allen is dealt. For the sake of a proposal, the Canucks would have to sign a mean vet. like Todd Simpson to fill the gap left by Allen...

Naslund-Morrison-Bertuzzi
D.Sedin-H.Sedin-Williams
Cooke-Chubarov-Linden
May-Kesler-Ruutu
First things first.. where is King in your line up??
Also where is all this defensive depth the Canucks have?? They have a solid top six right now but could run into trouble if anybody gets hurt..

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Old
11-27-2004, 01:42 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrisweb
First things first.. where is King in your line up??
Also where is all this defensive depth the Canucks have?? They have a solid top six right now but could run into trouble if anybody gets hurt..

King is only in the line-up for the 1st 2 months of the season.

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Old
11-27-2004, 03:56 PM
  #19
bleedgreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Markov is and was a lot more established at the time of the trade. He's a lot more of a sure thing than Allen is at the moment. Plus, why would the Canes deal a defenseman for Williams only to trade Williams for a defenseman once again, doesn't make any sense.
all very true, i think the original offer was just to see if the value was on - which i think it is. realisticly for both teams - this deal would probably be for oneill. the canes are much more likely to move him for a defensemen, since they seem to think they cant afford him. williams is still pretty cheap and plays a top 6 role - he is about as off limits as a player can be (coming from the canes side). the nucks are a team thats gettin to the point where they are built for now more than the future. if they are going to take advantage of naslund and bertuzzi in their primes and try to win now, i would think oneill would be the better fitting piece of the puzzle. not that williams isnt a good player, its just he is still developing and its still hard to say what kind of player he is yet. oneill is a scoring winger who can play in the playoffs and help take some heat off the top line.

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Old
11-27-2004, 05:55 PM
  #20
cyrisweb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
King is only in the line-up for the 1st 2 months of the season.
Yea that's funny and all thanks for the valueble input, maybe next don't bother at all.

Given the ice time I have no doubt that King will put up adequate numbers on the second line. But even if that doesn't work out next year, he does have all the skills to play on the third line.

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Old
11-27-2004, 06:04 PM
  #21
sunb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Markov is and was a lot more established at the time of the trade. He's a lot more of a sure thing than Allen is at the moment. Plus, why would the Canes deal a defenseman for Williams only to trade Williams for a defenseman once again, doesn't make any sense.
Youth.

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Old
11-27-2004, 10:46 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo
Well I'm bored...

To Vancouver:
RW Justin Williams

To Carolina:
D Bryan Allen
Canucks can't afford to get rid of grit on the backend, and with Jason King in the system and succeeding, trading for Williams just doesn't make sense, especially if he was to play with the Sedins. A big no if you're a Canucks fan.

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Old
11-28-2004, 04:11 AM
  #23
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Youth.
Do you even realise that Justin Williams is younger than Bryan Allen?

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Old
11-28-2004, 06:14 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mazmin
Here's an odd spin:

Allen - Sopel - 3rd rounder

for

O'Neil - Dawson or Curry or Trojovsky (possible Allen-types but far from definite) - 5th rounder

This deal solidifies Carolina's defense big time.

Nucks get a guy who can add grit and finish to the Sedin line. He was also a linemate of Bertuzzi in Guelph back in their OHL days.

Canes fans will probably demand a bit more but it's always hard when trading apples for oranges.

NO from Carolina POV

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Old
11-28-2004, 06:15 AM
  #25
BuppY
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I wouldn't do that Allen for Williams deal, If i was the Canes!!

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