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The (heavily moderated) Fire Howson/Priest thread.

View Poll Results: Which of the following would you approve as owner?
Fire Priest/Howson immediately 60 58.25%
Fire Howson immediately/retain Priest for the next year 5 4.85%
Fire Priest immediately/retain Howson for the next year 29 28.16%
Something else 9 8.74%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-01-2012, 10:48 AM
  #276
KeithBWhittington
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I will say that I put a lot of stock in guys like Weber and Goloubef. If Weber does nothing, the 2007 draft isn't looking nearly as good as it was last offseason....


Voracek-gone
Legein-gone almost immediately
Weber-ready to start pro career
Hansen-same as Weber
Mayorov-most likely gone for good
York-will likely be the backup for Springfield or in the ECHL
Vogelhuber-history of injuries, ready for first full season in the minors as well

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06-01-2012, 12:48 PM
  #277
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithBWhittington View Post
I will say that I put a lot of stock in guys like Weber and Goloubef. If Weber does nothing, the 2007 draft isn't looking nearly as good as it was last offseason....


Voracek-gone
Legein-gone almost immediately
Weber-ready to start pro career
Hansen-same as Weber
Mayorov-most likely gone for good
York-will likely be the backup for Springfield or in the ECHL
Vogelhuber-history of injuries, ready for first full season in the minors as well
Draft picks that allow us to acquire quality assets still count as quality draft picks. Just 'cause we traded Voracek in a move that ultimately got us JMFJ doesn't make that a bad draft choice.

Frankly, that draft still looks pretty decent to me. Heck, the fact that Vogelhuber managed to earn a pro contract still has me impressed. (I doubt he'll make it out of Springfield, but still.)

And considering Mayorov's draft position, we actually got more out of him than might be expected.

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Old
06-01-2012, 02:22 PM
  #278
pete goegan
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A link provided by Lori Schmidt led to this article:

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...medium=twitter


Wow.

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06-01-2012, 02:24 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
What exactly was he supposed to say?

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06-01-2012, 02:40 PM
  #280
Viqsi
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I happen to agree. We've got glaring holes, but we're not exactly an AHL team or anything crazy like that.

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06-01-2012, 02:41 PM
  #281
pete goegan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
What exactly was he supposed to say?
Well, I can't say, exactly; but, approximately, something other than patently rediculous lunacy?

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06-01-2012, 02:42 PM
  #282
Nordique
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Look at who else has finished in last since the lockout and think about where they are now.

Chicago
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
St Louis
Edmonton
NYI

4 out of 6 of them are highly competitive teams now. Half of them have appeared in the cup finals since the lockout. There is alot of parity in the league. A couple of key acquisitions and the right coach can make any team in the league a post season threat. Maybe we "aren't that far away" after all.

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06-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #283
pete goegan
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Sorry, Viqsi and Nordique, but I just don't buy it.

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06-01-2012, 03:06 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Sorry, Viqsi and Nordique, but I just don't buy it.
I knew I'd been letting you talk peacefully with EDM too long.

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06-01-2012, 03:21 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Sorry, Viqsi and Nordique, but I just don't buy it.

That is your perogative.

Been an optimist my whole life, no sense in changing now.

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06-01-2012, 03:34 PM
  #286
pete goegan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
That is your perogative.

Been an optimist my whole life, no sense in changing now.
Does your optimism really extend far enough to join Howson in the belief that the worst team in the league, by far, is "not that far away"? I've always tried to look on the bright side, as well, but that statement, coming from Howson, strains all credulity.

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06-01-2012, 03:35 PM
  #287
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I knew I'd been letting you talk peacefully with EDM too long.
I'm afraid some of his darkness has overcome me.

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06-01-2012, 03:41 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Does your optimism really extend far enough to join Howson in the belief that the worst team in the league, by far, is "not that far away"? I've always tried to look on the bright side, as well, but that statement, coming from Howson, strains all credulity.
"Life's a piece of ****, when you look at it..."

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Old
06-01-2012, 03:49 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Does your optimism really extend far enough to join Howson in the belief that the worst team in the league, by far, is "not that far away"? I've always tried to look on the bright side, as well, but that statement, coming from Howson, strains all credulity.
I don't think we were as bad as our record last year. I will get flamed I am sure but when a team loses over 400 man games including 100+ man games in goal it is hard to really get a handle on the actual relative strength of the team. Couple that with rebuilding the Blue line pretty much on the fly and there is reason to have belief in a significant rebound.

There is still a lot of work to be done, and we will probably need a break or two but then we are due a couple. It is my opinion that these are not the same old Blue Jackets, and the season in front of us will bear that out.

But, as I have freely admitted, I am an optimist.

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06-01-2012, 03:51 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Well, I can't say, exactly; but, approximately, something other than patently rediculous lunacy?
Being honest and saying "We're not even close" would be equally insane, just in a totally different way.

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06-01-2012, 04:17 PM
  #291
pete goegan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Being honest and saying "We're not even close" would be equally insane, just in a totally different way.
Obviously, Sam, some middle ground between those two extremes might have been found that would have elicited fewer guffaws.

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06-01-2012, 04:32 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Look at who else has finished in last since the lockout and think about where they are now.

Chicago
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
St Louis
Edmonton
NYI

4 out of 6 of them are highly competitive teams now. Half of them have appeared in the cup finals since the lockout. There is alot of parity in the league. A couple of key acquisitions and the right coach can make any team in the league a post season threat. Maybe we "aren't that far away" after all.
Pittsburgh and Chicago drafted 2 great players in back to back years;

Philadelphia wasn't afraid to trade away two of their best players

St Louis drafted well; signed a couple of nice free agents; signed a pretty decent coach and developed an identity

Edmonton will be good once they get some D

The Isles, well, they are the jackets of the East.


Point is that I don't think any of these teams were thinking "hey we're close, a few tweaks here and there and we are contenders"

Major overhauls for all, well almost all-who knows about the Isles, whatever they are doing is not working

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06-01-2012, 04:34 PM
  #293
EspenK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Loved the comment after the article-somebody posted

"I fully expect the jackets to turn it around 360 degrees"

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Old
06-01-2012, 04:45 PM
  #294
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Quote:
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fixed that for ya

Drafting is hit or miss, and like you said, it takes years to truly grade a draft pick. I can't say I have a strong opinion yet, one way or the other, concerning Howson's abilities to draft.
Congrats to Howson. After blowing a whole season by bringing in a locker room cancer that he traded away 2 top-ten first round draft picks for he finally got one decent piece back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Look at who else has finished in last since the lockout and think about where they are now.

Chicago
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
St Louis
Edmonton
NYI

4 out of 6 of them are highly competitive teams now. Half of them have appeared in the cup finals since the lockout. There is alot of parity in the league. A couple of key acquisitions and the right coach can make any team in the league a post season threat. Maybe we "aren't that far away" after all.
Yeah, and think about what it took them to get there. Chicago made a lot of big time acquisitions and hit a couple draft home runs. Philly's monumental rebuild is well documented. Pittsburgh sucked for so long that they got Fleury, Malkin, Crosby and Staal. St. Louis stumbled for years until it finally clicked this year. Edmonton and NYI, well, you already acknowledged their situation.

So, what does this tell us? It takes more than some little "re-shape" to fix a problem as big as finishing dead last in the league.

But, since Howson is making proclamations, this is all I have to say --Playoffs or Bust. If we're that close, that should be a simple enough task. Otherwise, this is the same old tired talk as Priest's "Win Now!"

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06-01-2012, 05:11 PM
  #295
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The best response would be "we have some work to do." It sounds like a lot without actually saying anything.

Howson is an idiot when it comes to PR.

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06-01-2012, 05:19 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Does your optimism really extend far enough to join Howson in the belief that the worst team in the league, by far, is "not that far away"? I've always tried to look on the bright side, as well, but that statement, coming from Howson, strains all credulity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
I don't think we were as bad as our record last year. I will get flamed I am sure but when a team loses over 400 man games including 100+ man games in goal it is hard to really get a handle on the actual relative strength of the team. Couple that with rebuilding the Blue line pretty much on the fly and there is reason to have belief in a significant rebound.

There is still a lot of work to be done, and we will probably need a break or two but then we are due a couple. It is my opinion that these are not the same old Blue Jackets, and the season in front of us will bear that out.

But, as I have freely admitted, I am an optimist.
It's not just losing people to injury, it was losing important players to injury. The defensemen with the most games played this year were John Moore, Fedor Tyutin, and Aaron Johnson. None of them had 70 games.

If that were to be known coming into last season, I'd have to believe that that in itself (without considering other factors) would have tempered expectations significantly.

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06-01-2012, 09:40 PM
  #297
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When it comes to Howson and Priest I think that Priest should be "fired." What I mean by "fired" is that he no longer has any control of the hockey side of the organization and moves over the business side. He is a great business man and will do good things for the franchise on the business side. Have Patrick either pick the new President or make him the new President. After we get a new President, I think that he should make the decision on Howson.

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06-03-2012, 12:19 PM
  #298
KeithBWhittington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
The best response would be "we have some work to do." It sounds like a lot without actually saying anything.

Howson is an idiot when it comes to PR.



Howson should have said that, absolutely. Or, a "We had some problems last season, we hope to turn it around and be much more competitive this season" kind-of-thing.

Its strange because when Howson was hired, he was pretty much billed as the Antithesis of our previous GM, quiet, unassuming, under-promise and over-deliver, measured and smart when speaking. I wish we had old Howson back, With the exception that Old Howson that decided to clean the organization's front office and developmental departments when he came aboard in June of 2007.

For a Lawyer by trade, I've been shocked by whats come out of his mouth in the last few months (The Nash request bombshell, The admitted lack of a coaching search or interview process and now this). I'd like to think its because the ground is on has gotten considerably more shaky, but I just don't read the outrage between the lines from Priest or Ownership.

Howson is turning into Doug MacLean more and more each day, it seems.


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06-03-2012, 05:26 PM
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
Look at who else has finished in last since the lockout and think about where they are now.

Chicago
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
St Louis
Edmonton
NYI

4 out of 6 of them are highly competitive teams now. Half of them have appeared in the cup finals since the lockout. There is alot of parity in the league. A couple of key acquisitions and the right coach can make any team in the league a post season threat. Maybe we "aren't that far away" after all.

A fair response, but it leads to the follow-up question - how many of those teams began flourishing with the same leadership team that led them to those historically lousy seasons?

The sad fact is, given the same leaders doing the same things, this franchise is going to continue to produce more of the same. I hope I'm wrong. If I am, I will invite every registered user on this board to mock and ridicule me.

The only real hope for this franchise is if Craig Patrick has been given enough authority to save it from producing more of the same. The JJ trade makes me want to believe it is possible. But I won't take it for a fact fact until I see a lot more evidence. (Making Wright director of scouting, as much as I admired him as a player, does not fill me with hope. More on the job training in critical roles.)

I know Howson *had* to say he thinks the team is close to being competitive. But if he really believes that, it's proof positive he should not be in that job.

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06-03-2012, 07:30 PM
  #300
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A fair response, but it leads to the follow-up question - how many of those teams began flourishing with the same leadership team that led them to those historically lousy seasons?

The sad fact is, given the same leaders doing the same things, this franchise is going to continue to produce more of the same. I hope I'm wrong. If I am, I will invite every registered user on this board to mock and ridicule me.

The only real hope for this franchise is if Craig Patrick has been given enough authority to save it from producing more of the same. The JJ trade makes me want to believe it is possible. But I won't take it for a fact fact until I see a lot more evidence. (Making Wright director of scouting, as much as I admired him as a player, does not fill me with hope. More on the job training in critical roles.)

I know Howson *had* to say he thinks the team is close to being competitive. But if he really believes that, it's proof positive he should not be in that job.
I think you're overstating the importance of leadership at the expense of talent. Most of those teams had something in common: an aging core and a group of young players on the horizon who had not begun to play like NHLers. By the time the younger guys were ready, the older players had either retired or otherwise moved on.

When Chicago had that dreadful season, they had the vast majority of their future Cup core in place. The only notable players added were Toews (who had already been drafted anyway, but was at UND), Kane (who was about to be drafted), and Brian Campbell (UFA). But the Chicago system in May 2007 had about 90% of their Cup team there.

Philadelphia had a horrible season at the same time. They were boosted by the trades with Nashville, which significantly cut down on their rebuild time...they had already drafted Giroux and were waiting for him, Carter and Richards had not yet emerged, and they signed high-profile free agents like Briere.

Washington was bad for a couple years even after drafting Ovechkin, but it enabled them to pick up Backstrom and Alzner, and also to see guys like Green and Semin develop as well.

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