Since there's no option "Retain both Howson and Prist" people who trust both of them have to vote for "something else" and they gonna be in the same column with people who think they should have been fired yesterday... Is this the way to connect antagonists somehow or something else?
Since there's no option "Retain both Howson and Prist" people who trust both of them have to vote for "something else" and they gonna be in the same column with people who think they should have been fired yesterday... Is this the way to connect antagonists somehow or something else?
Embrace the less than 10% and be proud. Translation: Yes there should have been that option, but at the same time the number of people that fit into that line of thought is so low that having an option just for you is probably pointless. You'll get mixed in with other vast minorities, like myself.
Since my option involves neither firing Priest or Howson, at least not immediately on Howson, I'm not sure it really matters all that much honestly. For a short time, at least, we follow the same road if for different reasons.
This is my struggle -- though I'm in favor of firings, it sure as heck doesn't seem like it is coming.
We can shout and type about draft results, UFA failures, blown trades, whatever and it just feels fairly meaningless at this point.
We can point to how other organizations operate and what other owners/fan bases will and won't stand for.
And none of that really feels like it matters.
Howson and Priest are keeping their jobs.
We either accept that and hope that through luck or skill or the magical mystery presence of Craig Patrick or whatever that this team improves to an acceptable level ... or I suppose we continue pissing into the wind on this issue.
As each day passes, I get more and more pissed off. JPMac is more loyal to these two employees than he is to all of the team's fans. And no, they shouldn't be fired just to placate the fans. How about a commitment to excellence that makes the city proud of the team that represents them?
As each day passes, I get more and more pissed off. JPMac is more loyal to these two employees than he is to all of the team's fans.
Since I don't think that JPM has the impression that retaining those employees is mutually exclusive with fan loyalty (us or them mentality), I think he would probably scratch is head at this anger.
If anything that type of stuff tends to make some people dig in even harder and might be unproductive to your cause.
I voted to fire both immediately, but in hindsight, Priest did get us an all-star game/new arena lease. I think that's good enough for another year.
How did Priest get the new arena lease? More specifically, how did Nationwide end up with 30% of the team. If Nationwide got their extra ownership in exchange for a lease where they are still making a ton of money, I not sure Priest should be proud of that.
How did Priest get the new arena lease? More specifically, how did Nationwide end up with 30% of the team. If Nationwide got their extra ownership in exchange for a lease where they are still making a ton of money, I not sure Priest should be proud of that.
Since I don't see any issue with Nationwide paying for naming rights and investing for a 30% stake in the team, I really can't relate to your line of thought here. They certainly didn't sell the arena for the cost it was built for.
Since I don't think that JPM has the impression that retaining those employees is mutually exclusive with fan loyalty (us or them mentality), I think he would probably scratch is head at this anger.
If anything that type of stuff tends to make some people dig in even harder and might be unproductive to your cause.
It's just how I feel. The fans was a Stanley Cup. The "leaders" in question gave us the worst team in the league. I don't know how the two could be anymore polar opposite.
I'd like to see them both go, but I could live with Howson if he was assessed by a President that had a clue how to assess a GM's ability. I don't trust Priest to replace Howson, and I don't trust Howson to handle this draft or the pending Nash deal. For the interest of the vote: I think is best to let them both go and build from the top down.
I'd like to see Priest go. And while statistically, Howson has every reason to be fired, I think I cut him a little more slack because he came to us as a rookie GM.
Five years is a little more than the average apprenticeship for a tradesman, if that relates at all. I guess his time as an assistant GM could be considered an apprenticeship of sorts, but it's still a different ball game when your word is the final one.
But I don't feel that strongly about him, either way.
I don't believe this team is capable of winning those games next year. And neither does Howson. That is why another year means nothing--this is a rebuild. That is why Nash decided to ask for a trade. He didn't ask for a trade because "the plan" was to try to make the playoffs in 2012-13.
The 2008-09 season was different because there had been a recent regime change and people could believe the team would turn it around because they could view it as a sign the change worked. The Jackets could string together early season wins this next year and not see any effect at the box office because people are leary of this group and will view it as a mirage.
At some point fans see ownership as neglectful of them and tune out. We both know about Dollar Bill in Chicago and how that played out.
I see a situation that can be made worse by Howson staying and moreso if what he's told is that he must make the playoffs. Suddenly it is all in for next season. The long-term future of this franchise is neglected for him to sustain his job. At what cost?
We're at a point with the Nash trade, the #2 pick and a coaching vacancy that makes sense to change course to avoid that sort of short-sighted decisions your "one more year" would promote.
In other words, "one more year" may be centrist between "fire them all" and "keep 'em forever" but isn't reasonable.
To avoid the dreaded fisking:
- No one knows what really went on behind closed doors between Nash and the higher-ups. We don't even know who was in the room at the time. Outside of what was said on February 27, it's all speculation, and that left a lot of room to read between the lines anyway.
- This would happen anyway. When I started compiling all these attendance numbers (leaguewide, throughout as much of history as possible), a big chunk had to do with analyzing three things. The first was the effect of a new building on attendance, and how long that lasted. The second had to do with whether there's a greater benefit to a "standard" build, like what San Jose has done since 1991. The third had to do with the relationship between expectations and attendance. If a team falls short, there is a noticeable drop in every city except the usual ones (NYR, Philadelphia, Toronto, Montreal). This all ties into a much larger project on expectations and coaches which I have yet to complete, but I hope to have that all done by August.
- Going off memory, there wasn't any honeymoon period in the 2007-08 season at all in terms of attendance. In fact, I think that the first three months of that season featured the five most sparsely-attended games in team history, despite the hot start and hovering around the 8th spot all the way into February.
- Dollar Bill and Harold Ballard were peas in a pod, and yet the very similar situations had very dissimilar outcomes. What adds to that even more is that Toronto during the Ballard era was nowhere close to competitive, and the fact that he was openly and very publicly dislikeable.
- It can be made a lot better too, simply through the natural development cycles of the young players. When Howson arrived, the little bit of talent on the roster was either past its prime and rapidly declining (Vyborny, Modin, Fedorov, Foote), in need of guidance (Nash), or destined to never achieve its potential (Brule, Zherdev, Fritsche, Leclaire).
- Honestly, I don't see someone who would receive an ultimatum and start throwing stuff against the wall. It hasn't happened yet, despite multiple opportunities to do exactly that. The best resume in sports is to be vindicated, particularly for someone who still has another 25 years in the game after this.
- The rest is theoretical based off of the above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnCornelius
Five years is long enough in most instances. If Brian Burke can't turn things around in Toronto next year, he'll be gone. Why is it different here?
I don't think the situations are necessarily comparable, and keep in mind that looking for comps is a big chunk of any type of analysis. I can't figure out how Toronto, which theoretically should have its pick of every person of any caliber in the world of hockey, can ever spend a single year outside of the playoffs in a post-Ballard world. I can figure out how the Islanders miss.
If Toronto doesn't show improvement next year and end up in the playoffs (at minimum), Brian Burke will have done less in Toronto than Scott Howson in Columbus has to this point, despite having vastly more resources and intangible benefits to work with.
Both Priest and Howson need to go. I look at it quite simply and boil it down to one thing: Winning. Both have had more than ample time and both have failed to produce a winning product.
Awesome first 15 minutes of today's Marek vs Wyshynski podcast talking about fan rage, and how fans think they can affect sports and get players traded and management fired. http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/marek...-Wyshynski.mp3
Awesome first 15 minutes of today's Marek vs Wyshynski podcast talking about fan rage, and how fans think they can affect sports and get players traded and management fired. http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/marek...-Wyshynski.mp3
It seems like just yesterday that Blackhawks fans were wondering why on earth someone as bad as Duncan Keith was on an NHL roster, and that Habs fans were livid that the team picked Carey Price over Gilbert Brule.
It seems like just yesterday that Blackhawks fans were wondering why on earth someone as bad as Duncan Keith was on an NHL roster, and that Habs fans were livid that the team picked Carey Price over Gilbert Brule.
I also don't think the "fire Howson" debate has anything to do with any other "fire _____" episode. He's simply under achieved and we need to restore confidence from top to bottom.
I would like to see Howson replaced and would prefer if Priest is put in a position to handle business operations, but only if he is firewalled from hockey operations.
I would also like to see a serious commitment to improved amateur and professional scouting, I'd like to see significant effort put into beefing up the player development staff as well.
While I'm generating my wish list, I also want an HO train and a cool new bike for Christmas.
I also don't think the "fire Howson" debate has anything to do with any other "fire _____" episode. He's simply under achieved and we need to restore confidence from top to bottom.
" ___________ 's simply under achieved".
(insert any name related to this franchise).
His requirement had been met. Hitch won Central division with the Blues. Blue Jackets are still looking for another coach.
If Scott Howson had wanted to keep Ken Hitchcock, he'd still be here no matter what I wanted. So, keep that in mind if you are so certain that Ken Hitchcock would have rebounded here.
I mentioned the fact way back then and I reiterate it now--even great coaches (Al Arbour) who miss the playoffs after having made the playoffs never have rebounded and won a Stanley Cup later with that same team. The reason is simple--psychology. It is what happened in Anaheim with Carlyle. Guys in the room stop believing in their coach and then it is over. And so it was with Hitch.
I voted keep Priest, fire Howson. I actually want both gone but I'll give Howson credit for the arena deal and listen to Jmacs plea that, "he doesn't have anything to do with what goes on the ice". Now I find that preposterous, but this IS the Columbus Blue Jackets. Howson on the other hand is a failure! He makes dumb decisions! Oh he's had a few good ones, signing Nash to 8 years(although now he wants out) getting Umberger for the Foote fiasco, getting JJ and a first for his Carter mistake. But his mistakes far outweigh the few good decisions. Not giving up an injury prone LeClaire for Brad Richards, the #1 center we could have had long ago, making no moves at all after another terrible season" I believe the answer is in the locker room"! Signing too many non productive players to long term contracts, counting on them to get better, starting this past season with a goaltender who was a total disaster for 2 years after a flash in the pan first season, then backing him up with a goaltender with 50 minutes of NHL experience. Signing players to contracts who have a history of concussion and other injury careers. I could list many more screw ups by this guy but I'm sure most know of them. The question here how does the owner account for his decision not to fire him? Does he run his steel company this way? Is it filled with incompetent employees like Howson? Are the Jackets one big tax shelter for him so he doesn't care about flushing millions of dollars in losses down the toilet? I guess we should all just be happy we have a team and quit *****ing!
or I suppose we continue pissing into the wind on this issue.
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