Try appreciating what we have, rather than dwelling on what could've been. The grass is always going to be greener on the other side for you.
This is pointless. I don't think you're a real fan; but that's by my definition, and not something meant to offend you.
You don't offend me but when you finish 26th , there's not much to appreciate .
I wonder why fans and ownership didn't appreciate what we had when JFJ ran the team instead of dwelling on what could have been . I bet JFJ would have appreciated the support the team is getting now .
Wait, you are 40+ years old but you still don't know that punctuation doesn't need a space between it and the last word?
This may be hard to believe but we didn't have computers when i was in school and i don't remember my teacher ever measuring how far my punctuation was spaced from my last word . It's funny how many people have commented on this . I do it because i like it and i don't understand why it bothers people .
You're right i should be overjoyed like you at the performance of this team . 7 years out of the playoffs and we don't have a num 1 C , D , G or an elite propsect on this team or in the system at this time but heck thats okay because we're the Leafs and mediocre is what we should be proud of .
While we have some pieces that fact remains we're no where close to being an elite team and no amount of spinning will deny this fact .
Congratulations on completely misrepresenting my position to suit your narrative, as always, while confirming my statement about yours.
You don't offend me but when you finish 26th , there's not much to appreciate .
I wonder why fans and ownership didn't appreciate what we had when JFJ ran the team instead of dwelling on what could have been . I bet JFJ would have appreciated the support the team is getting now .
Because it seems this team is actually headed somewhere.
With JFJ, the only ballsy moves he made ended up brutally. Rask for Raycroft, and then Toskala for Couture. The only promise on the team was hoping our 25 and 26 year olds would somehow progress. Aging Sundin, Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker were the only bright spots.
The only good thing to come out of those days were JFJs draft picks, but most of the credit goes to Morrison and his people, in my opinion.
If Burke left today, he would leave us whoever is 5th, Kadri, Colborne, Gardiner, Schenn (I know- Fletcher), Ashton, Frattin, Ross, Blacker, Deschamps, Biggs, Percy, a 24 year old PPG player in Kessel, a 28 year old PPG player in Lupul, a game breaking defenceman in Phaneuf, Franson, Bozak.
The only guy on that list from Fergusons era is Frattin.
I agree with Burke when he says that a lot of anger towards him, and the team in general, right now is because of the whole 1967, and not making the playoffs since the lockout. The truth of that matter is that Burke has been here for 3 years. Yeah, we haven't made the playoffs, but there are a lot of nice pieces coming up that will help the team be in the playoffs consistently once we finally get in.
I don't understand how one simply doesn't 'like' a PPG player?
**** the price it took to get him, and just appreciate the guy for gods sake. People wonder why no one wants to sign in Toronto; it's because you people never appreciate anyone worth appreciating! You'll get up in arms over Tim Brent signing elsewhere, but god forbid liking the one elite piece on the team.
There's a place and a time to have elite players. Why do you think that Columbus is trying to unload Nash, who imo is a more complete player than Kessel. Or why teams that aren't close to contending trade their assets to improve the club down the road?
It's not that Kessel isn't good, it's that the Leafs aren't close to competing. If he puts up 80+ in the next two years are you willing to pay him 7.5 mill per? Because I'm not.
I think that most people complaining about Kessel, as I have, want to see a proper rebuild, and he would fetch the best package. Not a "re-tooled" team that doesn't make the playoffs for the next 5 years while "being competitive" with overpaid players.
There's a place and a time to have elite players. Why do you think that Columbus is trying to unload Nash, who imo is a more complete player than Kessel. Or why teams that aren't close to contending trade their assets to improve the club down the road?
It's not that Kessel isn't good, it's that the Leafs aren't close to competing. If he puts up 80+ in the next two years are you willing to pay him 7.5 mill per? Because I'm not.
I think that most people complaining about Kessel, as I have, want to see a proper rebuild, and he would fetch the best package. Not a "re-tooled" team that doesn't make the playoffs for the next 5 years while "being competitive" with overpaid players.
Columbus isn't trying to unload Nash, he asked to be traded.
Aren't close to competing? They're a goalie and #1C away from being a really good team. Early in the season, people were talking about the Leafs as one of the better in the East. A 40 day hiatus ruined the season, but it doesn't mean we're actually a **** team. In a league where there is so much parity, good teams are going to drop and get higher picks than people are used to in the past.
If Kessel puts up 80+ points for the next two years, then yes, I'm willing to pay him 7.5+. Why the **** wouldn't you want to? So we could trade more assets to get someone else who does that? I don't get why people don't wanna pay him the money he deserves. He's the best player on the team by a mile, and should be paid as such.
That's another reason why players don't wanna sign in Toronto. They will never be able to live up to their price tag, because most fans seem to believe the millions are solely coming out of their pockets.
We can't do a proper rebuild; we're too far into this retool, and we're going to get a really go piece in this draft. After that, I think we assess how the team fares in the next couple of years before firing Burke and doing a rebuild.
You seem to be under the impression that Burke and Kessel has been at this team since the lockout. They haven't.
Because it seems this team is actually headed somewhere.
With JFJ, the only ballsy moves he made ended up brutally. Rask for Raycroft, and then Toskala for Couture. The only promise on the team was hoping our 25 and 26 year olds would somehow progress. Aging Sundin, Kaberle, McCabe, Tucker were the only bright spots.
The only good thing to come out of those days were JFJs draft picks, but most of the credit goes to Morrison and his people, in my opinion.
If Burke left today, he would leave us whoever is 5th, Kadri, Colborne, Gardiner, Schenn (I know- Fletcher), Ashton, Frattin, Ross, Blacker, Deschamps, Biggs, Percy, a 24 year old PPG player in Kessel, a 28 year old PPG player in Lupul, a game breaking defenceman in Phaneuf, Franson, Bozak.
The only guy on that list from Fergusons era is Frattin.
I agree with Burke when he says that a lot of anger towards him, and the team in general, right now is because of the whole 1967, and not making the playoffs since the lockout. The truth of that matter is that Burke has been here for 3 years. Yeah, we haven't made the playoffs, but there are a lot of nice pieces coming up that will help the team be in the playoffs consistently once we finally get in.
So you're saying it's okay to look at what could have been with JFJ but not with Burke . With Burke we have to forget what he gave up to get Kessel or the fact that Dion could just as easily break the game open for us as he can for the other team . With Burke we can't look at his mistakes or the on ice product but pretend all his prospects will pan out to be impact players . With Burke these prospects are all his doing yet with JFJ you give the credit to the scouting staff . IMO JFJ was a failure and Burke has failed so far .
Burke is full of crap , no one is knocking him for the past 40 years . The anger towards him is for the on ice product since he's been here and the fact that the future could have been so much brighter had he choose a different path .
Is Burke full of hot air? Yup. Has he brought what he promised when he was hired? Not yet. However, the Leafs are in a better position now than when Burke took over the team (though the standings disagree). So far I am disappointed in the results, but I feel the Leafs are headed in the right direction.
(BTW Nice avatar hotpaws. I played for Laurentian the last four years)
Is Burke full of hot air? Yup. Has he brought what he promised when he was hired? Not yet. However, the Leafs are in a better position now than when Burke took over the team (though the standings disagree). So far I am disappointed in the results, but I feel the Leafs are headed in the right direction.
(BTW Nice avatar hotpaws. I played for Laurentian the last four years)
So you're saying it's okay to look at what could have been with JFJ but not with Burke . With Burke we have to forget what he gave up to get Kessel or the fact that Dion could just as easily break the game open for us as he can for the other team . With Burke we can't look at his mistakes or the on ice product but pretend all his prospects will pan out to be impact players . With Burke these prospects are all his doing yet with JFJ you give the credit to the scouting staff . IMO JFJ was a failure and Burke has failed so far .
Burke is full of crap , no one is knocking him for the past 40 years . The anger towards him is for the on ice product since he's been here and the fact that the future could have been so much brighter had he choose a different path .
With one trade? He could have had Dougie Hamilton + Tyler Seguin instead of Kessel?
For me, Seguin and Kessel cancel out. I think they're both great players, but will eventually be the same player. Hamilton obviously breaks the deal, but I think the Lupul + Gardiner deal makes up for it, so I don't know where you're coming from now.
And to respond to the top paragraph, I don't know what you're talking about. I clearly said there was nothing to look forward to with JFJ. His prospects were meh, he traded away all 1st rounders for everything, and there wasn't a young promising player on the roster. Can you show me anything that was similar?
Call me a Kool-Aid drinker, but Burke has brought in a number of former post-lockout 1st round picks into the system. I mean... the future is much brighter now than with JFJ, I don't know how you can argue this. I think your expectations are simply too high for BB, and that lowers your view of him.
]Burke made this a statement of facts[/B]......in his press conference if that does not convince you nothing will.
Just to remove doubt about my opinion of Reimer he is a post that is well over a year old that removes hindsight :
03-02-2011, 05:57 PM
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diceman934
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I started some of this debate by stating my opinion.
Like I said before I sure hope I am wrong but fear that I am not.
His stats look good, I made a point of his lack of athletic ability will catch up to him. I have seen evidence of that already.
He does not track the puck that well, which added to his lack of flexibility and athleticism is a good indicator of what his abilities are.
Can he improve, yes he can.
Remember Justin Poggie. Poggie and Reimer are very similar....not great athletes. Poggie was a very good puck handler but was slow.
Confidence is a wonderful thing for a goalie to have and right now Reimer has a lot of it.
AS for Gus, he had a great rookie year, last years team was not as good as this years team. Do not give up on Gus just yet.
Statement of facts? Did he say in his press conferences that "he was stating these comments as facts" or are you assuming. Regardless, still waiting for you to show where burke promised things in his press conferences, that he has failed to deliver? You keep back tracking and doing the dance, and still unable to show and prove with complete certainly that "Burke made promises to the fans that he didn't deliver on". Again, nothing wrong with disliking Burke, but why make things up that don;t have a shred of truth?
Those are the only guys I would trade Kessel for. I dont care if someone offered us 5 firsts, if we were to trade Kessel it would be for a better player
even our first and kessel likly couldnt get u any of those .....
u might get stall outta carolina for kessel .but until we get a new GM burke cant trade kessel ..hed never work in the league again if he does
Statement of facts? Did he say in his press conferences that "he was stating these comments as facts" or are you assuming. Regardless, still waiting for you to show where burke promised things in his press conferences, that he has failed to deliver? You keep back tracking and doing the dance, and still unable to show and prove with complete certainly that "Burke made promises to the fans that he didn't deliver on". Again, nothing wrong with disliking Burke, but why make things up that don;t have a shred of truth?
He stated how his team's play and how he was going to have the leafs play. I have posted his direct words and you can ignore them all you want, but that does not change them. He has failed to keep his word.
I see that you dropped the hindsight comments as I posted my post from over a year ago about Reimer.... Look for a lot of player comments this summer...after they get traded it should be interesting.
Burke has failed thus far into his tenure as the GM he is now on a very short leash which scares me more as people in these positions often sell the farm for one over paid Player who will help in the short term but kill you long term. Contract talks in the next season will also be an issue.
He stated how his team's play and how he was going to have the leafs play. I have posted his direct words and you can ignore them all you want, but that does not change them. He has failed to keep his word. I see that you dropped the hindsight comments as I posted my post from over a year ago about Reimer.... Look for a lot of player comments this summer...after they get traded it should be interesting.
Burke has failed thus far into his tenure as the GM he is now on a very short leash which scares me more as people in these positions often sell the farm for one over paid Player who will help in the short term but kill you long term. Contract talks in the next season will also be an issue.
Where in that does Burke make a promise?? Burke saying he wants his team to play a certain way, is not in any way shape or form a promise. I have asked you several times to provide proof where Burke make a "promise" to fans, and fell through. You clearly have not, not even close, and are fabricating things to help support your dislike for Burke. Beyond sad, really no reason to make things up, and you clearly have here.
Congratulations on guessing before hand that Reimer craped the bed this year. Does this mean you are smarter than Burke and should be the GM? Could be it, considering you keep making things up to make him look bad. I believed after the year Reimer had last year he would be fine this year and should be given a shot. Right or wrong, Reimer deserved it.
Where in that does Burke make a promise?? Burke saying he wants his team to play a certain way, is not in any way shape or form a promise. I have asked you several times to provide proof where Burke make a "promise" to fans, and fell through. You clearly have not, not even close, and are fabricating things to help support your dislike for Burke. Beyond sad, really no reason to make things up, and you clearly have here.
Congratulations on guessing before hand that Reimer craped the bed this year. Does this mean you are smarter than Burke and should be the GM? Could be it, considering you keep making things up to make him look bad. I believed after the year Reimer had last year he would be fine this year and should be given a shot. Right or wrong, Reimer deserved it.
Good GMs make smart moves in HINDSIGHT....thats what defines them as a good GM...IE..the Flyers moving 2 huge pieces of their organization...what a ballsy move that could have blown up in the face of the Flyer GM. Instead Philly looks like a powerhouse going forward. In hindsight, Holmgren looks like a winner....otherwise you can defend alot of boneheaded moves in HINDSIGHT....by many GMs....who would have thought that the former rookie of the year in Raycroft would turn out to be a dud....how about a decent platoon goalie in Vesa Toskala? Put up some pretty decent numbers in San Jose...two failed moves in hindsight by a failed GM who continues to get crucified years later and rightfully so. His moves were bad just like many of Brian Burkes moves. Thats how you grade the work of a GM....in hindsight. You cannot tell the future so what else are you going to grade him on? Stop making excuses for poor management. It is what it is. You know the "putting lipstick on a pig"..stuff and all that.
Kessel is only going to get better. Why would you trade an elite goal scorer just entering his prime. It's not like he is a 30 something player on the downside of his career. Who do you replace him with? 37 goals don't fall off of trees, especially from one source. Kessel will never be the leader, or key stone to any contending team, but he will be very important and his role is simple. People always complain because players can't understand their role, and here is a guy that just naturally knows and requires just some minor tweaks from Carlyle to play his style. More stops and starts for example, than big loops in the d zone, things you can teach. You can't teach that snap shot. He is dangerous from anywhere 30 feet away from the net with that shot.
Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan....anyone of these Ducks..straight up.
Why? Kessel outscored Getzlaf by 35, Perry by 32, and Ryan by 32 points. He's also younger than all three of them. How does trading Kessel for one of those guys make this team any better? People are just clueless thinking Kessel is the problem of the Leafs
Why? Kessel outscored Getzlaf by 35, Perry by 32, and Ryan by 32 points. He's also younger than all three of them. How does trading Kessel for one of those guys make this team any better? People are just clueless thinking Kessel is the problem of the Leafs
Yeah whatever. Why do you only take this past season as the barometer to measure players? Getzlaf and Perry both have things that Kessel doesn't. Leadership qualities for one and Stanley Cup experience. Perry also has a Rocket Richard trophy in his back pocket. All 3 Ducks have size and play with an edge...
I like Kessel a lot but I am not delusional. He is one of the best snipers in the game, IMO. Top 5 but as an all round hockey player he is not even top 20. He doesn't bring much to the game when he isn't scoring and he is a non factor in physical games...see Boston games.
Those who think that you can only have one of two views on Kessel....that is either he is great or he sucks and needs to be traded....are those who are clueless. Not me. I certainly have a clue. There have been a lot of great players traded in the game today and in its history. Kessel wouldn't even rank in the top 20 of great players traded. Have some perspective. Stamkos scored 60 to Kessels 37. Hartnell had 37 last year. Matt freaking Moulson has had 3 consecutive 30 goal seasons. 36, 31, 30...
