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Offers for Datsyuk or Zetterberg

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Old
12-03-2004, 04:06 PM
  #51
King'sPawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
point of the proposal in the first place was to fill that center position. I'm very high on Brown, more than on Pushkarev, and i like Kanko's game.

Petiot, Pushkarev, Kanko is not enough for Datsyuk IMO. At least a top 50 prospect has to come the other way to get things started. Roster players are welcome too.
Fair enough. I'll just need to think on it some more then Thanks for the input.

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12-03-2004, 04:13 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
Since Detriot won't deal Datsyuk anyway, I'll make a proposal.

Detriot gets:
Scott Gomez
Anton Kadiekin

New Jersey gets:
Datsyuk
3rd rounder

The way I see it;
Gomez>= Datsyuk
Gomez is younger than and produced more (although slightly more) than Datsyuk.

Kadiekin<3rd rounder
I'd take that deal. However, I think New Jersey is really overpaying. I think people are really overrating Datsyuk. At most, he'll get a 1st round pick and a high prospect (see: Yashin).

I don't think there are any teams in the East that are looking for small players other than maybe the NYR simply because New York wants star players.

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Old
12-03-2004, 04:26 PM
  #53
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DETROIT: David Legwand, Andrew Hutchison
NASHVILLE: Zetterberg

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Old
12-03-2004, 04:47 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
I'd take that deal. However, I think New Jersey is really overpaying. I think people are really overrating Datsyuk. At most, he'll get a 1st round pick and a high prospect (see: Yashin).

I don't think there are any teams in the East that are looking for small players other than maybe the NYR simply because New York wants star players.

So in other words you're saying Robert Lang has higher trade value than Pavel Datsyuk? I don't buy that at all.

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Old
12-03-2004, 04:56 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBleeder
Blues and Wings are in the same boat, trying to rebuild yet keep win at the same time.

Hard to fathom a trade between the two of us for anyone.
Exactly. Plus neither team is going to want to take the other's 10 million dollar players in exchange for cheap young players, there would need to be some salary balancing. Unfortunately that doesn't work either, because the high-salaried players are either franchise guys (Lidstrom, Pronger) or overpaid stiffs (Tkachuk, Shanahan).

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12-03-2004, 04:59 PM
  #56
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Just for fun, this one's a definite longshot, but if there's no cap in the next CBA...

to NYI: Zetterburg
to DET: Yashin

Detroit does the first one to get a highly talented first liner who excels at the puck possession game that Detroit plays. Yashin would give Detroit the #1 Center they've lacked since Fedorov's departure and Yzerman moving to wing. In Detroit's system and with their quality of wingers, it is not a stretch to say he'd likely be an 80point player again. His salary his huge, but Detroit can likely afford it. Of course, due to Yashin's enormous salary, this could largely be seen as overpayment, but I don't think the Isles are likely to move Yashin without getting some kind of return back. Isles do the trade to shed a gross amount of salary and to get a young, talented natural LW. A longshot? Certainly. I actually kind of doubt either team would do it.

Flame away.


Last edited by Seph: 12-03-2004 at 05:07 PM.
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Old
12-04-2004, 01:41 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
Just for fun, this one's a definite longshot, but if there's no cap in the next CBA...

to NYI: Zetterburg
to DET: Yashin

Detroit does the first one to get a highly talented first liner who excels at the puck possession game that Detroit plays. Yashin would give Detroit the #1 Center they've lacked since Fedorov's departure and Yzerman moving to wing. In Detroit's system and with their quality of wingers, it is not a stretch to say he'd likely be an 80point player again. His salary his huge, but Detroit can likely afford it. Of course, due to Yashin's enormous salary, this could largely be seen as overpayment, but I don't think the Isles are likely to move Yashin without getting some kind of return back. Isles do the trade to shed a gross amount of salary and to get a young, talented natural LW. A longshot? Certainly. I actually kind of doubt either team would do it.

Flame away.
Lang and Datsyuk is a decent 1-2 combo for centers. Wings don't need Yashin. They could use a physical power forward (who doesn't) to go along with Datsyuk. But that is going to be awfully hard to find.

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Old
12-04-2004, 11:40 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
Is Jarkko better than Jiri Dopita? (Just joking!)

The original offer is a joke because Datsyuk is a 26 YO player who almost scored a PPG last year, and is one of the best young players in the game. Granted, he has struggled in the play-off's, but so have a lot of other young players. A 2nd round draft pick doesn't come anywhere close to bridging the gap between a great young proven player, and any prospect, unless the prospect is a guaranteed blue-chipper, which isn't the case with Immonen as far as I know (and I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination).
Jarkko Immonen is close to being a top scorer in one of the best leagues in the world currently, while being a humongous asset to his team defensively while also being a great leader. He's as much a bluechipper forward as any prospect except for the big 5 on forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
...and two years ago so was Jiri Dopita. Whats your point.
Dopita was already old and rather slow and was of a playertype that would be very unlikely to make it in the NHL. Jarkko Immonen works hard shift out and in while having awesome talent, good wheels and a great attitude. Big difference.

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12-04-2004, 12:15 PM
  #59
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SKiZO[X] and myself dont think so higjly of him,and what I wonder is why you and everyone elsae is so upset.Sorry people but I have my own opinions, nd if you dont like it well then you know what......To F#$kin bad.....

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12-04-2004, 12:37 PM
  #60
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Might as well just give an example of the players I would love to have over THE ALL MIGHTY DATSYUK........And the players I will use as example will all be in there 20's or near the age as close as I can get.I will also choose as many centers I would choose over him, not wingers .Obviousley cause he is a center.

Joe Thornton
Brad Richards
Vincent Lecavalier
Jason Spezza
Crosby- When drafted, still young but will be a superstar, most likely.
Scott Gomez

Cant really think of any more centers off my head which im sure there are some more. I would choose over Datsyuk and there is a list probably like 7 or so Heatley,Kovalchuk,Nash,Havlat, Gaborik etc...

Now these centers if switched with Datsyuk would put up similar #'s to Datsyuk........

Mike Comrie
Daniel Briere
Patrice Bergeron

Well Im not gonna sit here and keep writting players down but those are some examples.Now Im not saying that Datsyuk doesnt have the skills to be a very good NHL player, but what I am saying is there are plenty of players I would choose over him.

Most of these guys are younger than him cause dont forget that Datsyuk did come in the league as a bit older of a rookie at like 26 or so I think.I also fel if you take the list of players above all the names I listed and put them on DET would be better overall than Datsyuk. And if Datsyuk was moved wouldnt put up anything like he has in DET.Like I said good plyer but to me overrated, same for Zetterberg.Hard to tell what a young guy really got when he is surrounded by a team that has just a huge amount of superstars and HOF's and that is obvious and is also very agreeable, and if any one disagrees also feel its just for argument sake.

I would rather have Datsyuk than Zetterberg but would rather have the list of players above over both of them.And with Zetts I could also name a bunch of people with just as much potential and more but this is becoming ridiculous.

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12-04-2004, 12:42 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
I think people are really overrating Datsyuk.
Thank you some one agrees with me.

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Old
12-04-2004, 05:49 PM
  #62
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Personnaly, I'll think Briere = Datsyuk... Briere is so underrated, because of his stature, and if he had Datsyuk spot in Detroit, he'd put up the same amoutn of points...

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Old
12-04-2004, 06:15 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKiZO[X]
Personnaly, I'll think Briere = Datsyuk... Briere is so underrated, because of his stature, and if he had Datsyuk spot in Detroit, he'd put up the same amoutn of points...

OUCH!!!

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Old
12-04-2004, 07:30 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG9NK35DT8
Might as well just give an example of the players I would love to have over THE ALL MIGHTY DATSYUK........And the players I will use as example will all be in there 20's or near the age as close as I can get.I will also choose as many centers I would choose over him, not wingers .Obviousley cause he is a center.

Joe Thornton
Brad Richards
Vincent Lecavalier
Jason Spezza
Crosby- When drafted, still young but will be a superstar, most likely.
Scott Gomez

Cant really think of any more centers off my head which im sure there are some more. I would choose over Datsyuk and there is a list probably like 7 or so Heatley,Kovalchuk,Nash,Havlat, Gaborik etc...
You're choosing a list of guys that are younger and have bigger potential, but what does that have to do with Datsyuk's quality?

I think ever since he's come to the NHL he has improved each year, and on top of it he showed flashes that rarely anyone shows in the league these days, but the most effective thing about his game is the passes he makes, I think Datsyuk is still young and approching his prime, look for him to hit 80+ points next season, if that's not good enough for a top center then I don't know what is.

I have no idea why you named all these players, it's not like we're comparing players here, all we're doing is trying to find out Datsyuk's value, and frankly his value is high because he's still 26 years old, and he's already showing us that's he could be a good top line center.

Quote:
Now these centers if switched with Datsyuk would put up similar #'s to Datsyuk........

Mike Comrie
Daniel Briere
Patrice Bergeron
Maybe yes maybe no, you're making it seem just like he plays for the Wings he should do better, what if these players do worse? does't that ever cross your mind? do you want me to give you nice examples? here we go:

- Ray Whitney came to Detroit from Columbus the last season, he had 76 points with a poor Columbus team, then the year after with the Wings he only managed 43 points, now I know he only played 67 games but he was only on a pace for 52 points.

- Luc Robitaille was an above average player in LA scoring 70-80+ points, when he came to the Red Wings his numbers dropped big time, it was't as bad the first year but he still only managed 50 points.

- The last 2 years of Kozlov in Detroit he was only managing 30+ points in 70+ games, he goes to Buffalo then to Atlanta and now he's scoring like a top 6 forward again, his first season with the Thrashers he had 70 points and his second season he had 52 points.

Does that ever cross your mind? do you ever ask yourself why players don't produce much in Detroit? the answer is of course simple, the team rolls 4 lines and the scoring is spread between all the players in the team, not just the stars, so Datsyuk does't get enough ice-time in Detroit to rack up 80+ points because the team rolls 4 lines, it's not like other teams like Atlanta, Columbus, and so on where they rely a lot on their top 2 lines.

Quote:
Most of these guys are younger than him cause dont forget that Datsyuk did come in the league as a bit older of a rookie at like 26 or so I think.I also fel if you take the list of players above all the names I listed and put them on DET would be better overall than Datsyuk. And if Datsyuk was moved wouldnt put up anything like he has in DET.Like I said good plyer but to me overrated, same for Zetterberg.Hard to tell what a young guy really got when he is surrounded by a team that has just a huge amount of superstars and HOF's and that is obvious and is also very agreeable, and if any one disagrees also feel its just for argument sake.

I would rather have Datsyuk than Zetterberg but would rather have the list of players above over both of them.And with Zetts I could also name a bunch of people with just as much potential and more but this is becoming ridiculous.
First of all, Datsyuk was only 23 years old when he was a rookie, I have no idea why you boosted his age all the way to 26, the guy is 26 NOW.

Second of all, Datsyuk and Zetterberg played their best hockey when all the stars were injured, once again this is because they were relied on a lot and they answered back by playing the way they did, in fact Datsyuk was challanging among the top point leaders at one point last season, so this whole argument about playing with stars boosts their numbers is nothing but a myth because their numbers increased when all the stars were injured, that's of course because they were given a lot of ice-time, so don't be so sure that Comrie or Briere will have the same numbers or better in Detroit, it's not that easy scoring a lot of points in Detroit because they roll 4 lines and everyone scores, not just the top 2 lines.

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Old
12-04-2004, 09:12 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Luc Robitaille was an above average player in LA scoring 70-80+ points, when he came to the Red Wings his numbers dropped big time, it was't as bad the first year but he still only managed 50 points.
Luc got stuck on the third and forth lines the second season under Lewis. There was no way he was going to score without any PP time. The same thing would have happened with Hull.

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12-04-2004, 10:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Luc got stuck on the third and forth lines the second season under Lewis. There was no way he was going to score without any PP time. The same thing would have happened with Hull.
That's exactly my point, if Luc was given the same amount of ice-time he was given in LA he would've scored at least 60+ points, but because Detroit rolls 4 lines he got less ice-time.

The only forward that I remember the Wings gave a tones of ice-time was Fedorov, and that was in 2003 when he scored 83 points, I remember he used to play double shifts very often.

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12-04-2004, 10:21 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birko19
That's exactly my point, if Luc was given the same amount of ice-time he was given in LA he would've scored at least 60+ points, but because Detroit rolls 4 lines he got less ice-time.

The only forward that I remember the Wings gave a tones of ice-time was Fedorov, and that was in 2003 when he scored 83 points, I remember he used to play double shifts very often.
I understand what you're saying, but I guess what I was getting at was Bowman was a much better coach(duh!!) than Lewis. Scotty knew how to get the best out of his players where Lewis does not.

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12-04-2004, 11:03 PM
  #68
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Opinions are like (fill in the blank), everyone has one.

Here's mine: Datsyuk is without question one of the most talented young (at least in service) players in the NHL.

He's "overrated" by whom? His detractors ought to look beyond the stat sheet and watch the guy regularly. A typical week's worth of games will demonstrate to most any observer that the guy possesses outstanding stickhandling and passing skills, can finish (though he is not "sniper, per se), is quick (shifty) and creates space. And despite his average size, he is not a "liability" in either the corner, nor is he defensively weak. Some of us must be watching a different player.

Clearly, he benefits from playing on a veteran, talent-laden team. So what?!

Datsyuk and Zetterberg = young(er), talented and inexpensive.

The Wings are moving neither, at least not near-term.


Last edited by Trottier: 12-06-2004 at 02:12 PM.
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12-05-2004, 04:46 PM
  #69
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I disagree, if anything he is average defensively and also knocked off the puck too easily. However in terms of talent, he is as gifted as they come and IMO easily the most talented player on the Detriot roster. If you judge those centers mentioned earlier on pure talent:
Datsyuk>Gomez
Datsyuk>Comrie
Datsyuk>Briere
Datsyuk>>>>Bergeron

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12-06-2004, 10:48 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reilly311
I'd take that deal. However, I think New Jersey is really overpaying. I think people are really overrating Datsyuk. At most, he'll get a 1st round pick and a high prospect (see: Yashin).

I don't think there are any teams in the East that are looking for small players other than maybe the NYR simply because New York wants star players.

Yashin was a salary dump more than anything. You cant compare that trade with any possible Datsyuk deal. That being said, you are probably right. A 1st rounder and a high prospect would probably be the market for Datsyuk at this time.

I just feel the people who are underating this guy need to watch him game in, game out. He has really been making strides as a 2 way player. He is entering his prime right now, and I am excited as hell to see where he goes from here. And I want that to happen in Detroit.

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12-06-2004, 11:34 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
From a Kings pov, I'd do it. Now whether the Wings would do it or not......
Hey Reap, with the way the boys are playing down in Manchester right now, I'd think twice about it. Granted Datsuyk is an incredible player but the teamwork and camraderie that is going on down there right now is very valuable to a TEAM'S success. Dats is only one player.

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12-06-2004, 12:24 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
Yashin was a salary dump more than anything. You cant compare that trade with any possible Datsyuk deal. That being said, you are probably right. A 1st rounder and a high prospect would probably be the market for Datsyuk at this time.

I just feel the people who are underating this guy need to watch him game in, game out. He has really been making strides as a 2 way player. He is entering his prime right now, and I am excited as hell to see where he goes from here. And I want that to happen in Detroit.
That wouldn't be a bad deal, imo. When a player is traded, the team trading him away rarely gets market value so the Wings couldn't expect someone similar coming back unless they were trading for a more established player who costs more and/or is about to test free agency. the only way the Wings could get someone of comparative value would be if they traded for a dman from a team that needed a center.

Agree about him being underated, too. The guy is entirely willing to go into the corners and is great picking pockets on the backcheck. I think getting Hull off his line will force him to become more of a force on his own and will open up some more eyes.

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12-06-2004, 02:15 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionHockey
Datsyuk>Gomez
Datsyuk>Comrie
Datsyuk>Briere
Datsyuk>>>>Bergeron
Based on seeing the guy for one season only, this observer is willing to predict that Bergeron has a more productive, and certainly more well-rounded NHL career than either Briere or Comrie. Guy is a player.

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12-06-2004, 02:41 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG9NK35DT8
Might as well just give an example of the players I would love to have over THE ALL MIGHTY DATSYUK........And the players I will use as example will all be in there 20's or near the age as close as I can get.I will also choose as many centers I would choose over him, not wingers .Obviousley cause he is a center.

Joe Thornton
Brad Richards
Vincent Lecavalier
Jason Spezza
Crosby- When drafted, still young but will be a superstar, most likely.
Scott Gomez

Cant really think of any more centers off my head which im sure there are some more. I would choose over Datsyuk and there is a list probably like 7 or so Heatley,Kovalchuk,Nash,Havlat, Gaborik etc...

Now these centers if switched with Datsyuk would put up similar #'s to Datsyuk........

Mike Comrie
Daniel Briere
Patrice Bergeron

Well Im not gonna sit here and keep writting players down but those are some examples.Now Im not saying that Datsyuk doesnt have the skills to be a very good NHL player, but what I am saying is there are plenty of players I would choose over him.

Most of these guys are younger than him cause dont forget that Datsyuk did come in the league as a bit older of a rookie at like 26 or so I think.I also fel if you take the list of players above all the names I listed and put them on DET would be better overall than Datsyuk. And if Datsyuk was moved wouldnt put up anything like he has in DET.Like I said good plyer but to me overrated, same for Zetterberg.Hard to tell what a young guy really got when he is surrounded by a team that has just a huge amount of superstars and HOF's and that is obvious and is also very agreeable, and if any one disagrees also feel its just for argument sake.

I would rather have Datsyuk than Zetterberg but would rather have the list of players above over both of them.And with Zetts I could also name a bunch of people with just as much potential and more but this is becoming ridiculous.

thanks for that.

Anyway, i'm sure i can list 25 or so players that i'd rather have over Datsyuk off the top of my head. Also, Datsyuk came into the league at 23, made the team out of camp. He might have made it sooner, but the wings wanted him to develop in russia rather than the AHL for whatever reason. Now, he's 26.

If Datsyuk was moved he would put up similar #'s or better. Last year, Hull was horrible. Datsyuk set this guy up twice as much as anyone else, and Hull just couldn't put the puck in the net. Datsyuk's vision though is one of the best in the NHL.

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12-06-2004, 06:03 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKiZO[X]
Personnaly, I'll think Briere = Datsyuk... Briere is so underrated, because of his stature, and if he had Datsyuk spot in Detroit, he'd put up the same amoutn of points...
I agree 100% as I stated the same opinion in one of my posts

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