Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
If this is true Tamby needs to be fired before he can do something so horrible again. I would not trade Eberle straight up for Seguin.
This was Eberle before he played a single NHL game, and he has turned into a much better player than he was projected to be. The Hemsky+Eberle thing hasn't been confirmed by anyone either, it wouldn't surprise me if it was one or the other with other pieces attached.
to be fair, those arguments about Yakupov were raging when Columbus had the pick.
Yakupov has "question marks" they all say. Sure, what prospect doesn't? Even Crosby had some.
It is true however that the difference between 1st and 3rd this year is not an established 22yo RFA top4 dman.
Look at it from Montreal's POV. We could get Yakupov, which is great, or we can have Galchenyuk/Grigorenko AND Subban, which fills more needs. That's all. It isn't a knock on Edm or their choices or their great young core. Also, if EDM chooses Yakupov 1st, their top 6 will be amazing next season, and scary good for 10 years or more
We're talking a potential star player versus a group of guys who are likely top six players, but who could end up as to line guys. That is quite a significant upgrade. That said, the Habs are building around Subban and Price (and to a lesser extent, Patches), so Subban won't be involved in any deals like this.
I think some Habs fans here are really downplaying Yakupov who's an amazing talent well over the rest of his peers in this year's draft.
That said, it is true he doesn't fill enough of a need for the Habs to even start considering proposals initiated by non-Habs fans (mostly Oilers) in this thread.
If you guys want Subban, fine, we can discuss that (because we all know in reality it won't happen, as it should be). But there is no way the 3rd overall is coming back your way, and MPS, Whitney and other 2nd tier prospects/players on your team won't change that.
So basically, it would be something like 1st overall for Subban + ? (and I don't even desire a 1-for-1 swap but when I distance myself from my man-crush on Subban, I know something decent – not huge – has to be added to get that 1st pick).
It's not about Yakupov imo from the habs stand point, it's all about what Subban brings. 23+ minutes of solid hockey against top offensive opponent line... in what people call a down year??? At 22 years old, it just doesnt make sense to remove him, even for Yakupov imo.
It's not about Yakupov imo from the habs stand point, it's all about what Subban brings. 23+ minutes of solid hockey against top offensive opponent line... in what people call a down year??? At 22 years old, it just doesnt make sense to remove him, even for Yakupov imo.
100% agree. We do not have a viable replacement for Subban and the overall game he brings to the ice. Trading Subban for a small winger who has already suffered two concussions is a bad risk on its own. Add the fact that we need defence and center more than wing and the reality that Lucic and certain other Bruins will be facing Yakupov 6 times each season if he is in Montreal, and you have a recipe for disaster.
We agree, 100% "no" to Subban for Yakupov straight up. Let Edmonton keep Yakupov and we can have Subban passing the puck up the middle to Galchenyuk or Forsberg for the next decade, while Tinordi protects Subban's backside when he goes on the offensive.
It's not about Yakupov imo from the habs stand point, it's all about what Subban brings. 23+ minutes of solid hockey against top offensive opponent line... in what people call a down year??? At 22 years old, it just doesnt make sense to remove him, even for Yakupov imo.
You're preaching to a converted here. I was just playing along. I pretty much want to keep Subban at all costs.
Not sure why you'd turn this offer down, but to each their own.
Yakupov
or
Subban-Murray
First, you're just leaving out PRV, and even though PRV had a tough year, he's still rated as a top end prospect. Second, if Yakupov ends up being the next Bure or something close to him, which is possible, you can't deal a superstar for 2 solid #2/3 dmen. They have value, but to me, not enough to risk losing what Yakupov might be.
First, you're just leaving out PRV, and even though PRV had a tough year, he's still rated as a top end prospect. Second, if Yakupov ends up being the next Bure or something close to him, which is possible, you can't deal a superstar for 2 solid #2/3 dmen. They have value, but to me, not enough to risk losing what Yakupov might be.
Yakupov and Paajarvi are two wingers, which are much less needed commodities on Montreal than what they would loose in that deal: a potential 1st line centre and their best D (who's still in his early 20's).
Montreal fans consider Subban as their #1 already and Murray definitely has the upside to be a #1 D. Whether you agree with me/us or not, you're kind of stating the best possible scenario for Yakupov and the medium-to-worst possible one for both Subban and Murray. Doesn't work like that when you're trying to solidify an argument.
Yakupov and Paajarvi are two wingers, which are much less needed commodities on Montreal than what they would loose in that deal: a potential 1st line centre and their best D (who's still in his early 20's).
Montreal fans consider Subban as their #1 already and Murray definitely has the upside to be a #1 D. Whether you agree with me/us or not, you're kind of stating the best possible scenario for Yakupov and the medium-to-worst possible one for both Subban and Murray. Doesn't work like that when you're trying to solidify an argument.
Fair enough, I don't see as how either Subban or Murray project to be number one dmen. Subban has a better shot at being one. He has the physical tools, but to me he seems to lack the mental skills to do so. I'm a huge fan or Subban's, would love to have him on the Oil, but to me, I feel he will eventually be a solid number 2, which is a first pairing dman, somewhere around 30th to 40th best dman in the league. Murray is kind of the opposite, thinks the game very well, but doesn't appear to have the physical side to match. Again, I'd love Murray on the Oil as well. He is being pitched as a little better version of Chris Phillips, does every well, but nothing great, not overly physical, but still gets the job done, maybe something like a smaller Jay Bouwmeester. So maybe a 2, maybe a 3, but either way a guy who will be a solid NHLer for a number of years. I don't think I'm selling either of them short. I think I'm being fair, could I be proved wrong by 1 or both of these guys. But being one of the best 30 to 40 dmen in the league is not a small accomplishment.
As for Yakupov, the kid put up basically the same numbers as Stamkos, in fact a little bit better. The kid has the potential to be the same kind of impact player. Montreal may have wingers, and they may have a bigger need for a centre, but that doesn't change how big of a gamble it would be for Edmonton to move him before he even has a chance to start fulfilling his potential. To me, it's just to big of risk for Edmonton to move him for anything less than a complete overpay. And even though, I like PK and Murray (if CBJ doesn't take him), I like PRV as well, and I really like Yakupov. So I'm not here bashing the Habs' players, I'm just stating my thoughts. I guess time will tell us who was right.
I think habs need a potential franchise D more than they need a potential franchise winger. If yakupov was a potential franchise center, it would be much more interesting, but we're stocked with wingers and winger prospects. We don't need more. Habs D is soft and down the middle they arent talented nor big enough. This just doesn't help.
Fair enough, I don't see as how either Subban or Murray project to be number one dmen. Subban has a better shot at being one. He has the physical tools, but to me he seems to lack the mental skills to do so. I'm a huge fan or Subban's, would love to have him on the Oil, but to me, I feel he will eventually be a solid number 2, which is a first pairing dman, somewhere around 30th to 40th best dman in the league. Murray is kind of the opposite, thinks the game very well, but doesn't appear to have the physical side to match. Again, I'd love Murray on the Oil as well. He is being pitched as a little better version of Chris Phillips, does every well, but nothing great, not overly physical, but still gets the job done, maybe something like a smaller Jay Bouwmeester. So maybe a 2, maybe a 3, but either way a guy who will be a solid NHLer for a number of years. I don't think I'm selling either of them short. I think I'm being fair, could I be proved wrong by 1 or both of these guys. But being one of the best 30 to 40 dmen in the league is not a small accomplishment.
As for Yakupov, the kid put up basically the same numbers as Stamkos, in fact a little bit better. The kid has the potential to be the same kind of impact player. Montreal may have wingers, and they may have a bigger need for a centre, but that doesn't change how big of a gamble it would be for Edmonton to move him before he even has a chance to start fulfilling his potential. To me, it's just to big of risk for Edmonton to move him for anything less than a complete overpay. And even though, I like PK and Murray (if CBJ doesn't take him), I like PRV as well, and I really like Yakupov. So I'm not here bashing the Habs' players, I'm just stating my thoughts. I guess time will tell us who was right.
Subban is already a #1. As a rookie he was given top minutes. The guy is improving defensively and will likely be a 50-60 point d-man with game breaking ability and hitting with good two-way play when he hits his prime. Maybe 60 points is much but 50 will happen rather easily. The guy has franchise d-man written all over him. Is he better than guys of similar age like pietrangelo and karlsson? No, he isn't but he'll likely be a top 15 D in his prime. Many will argue with this, but think about it, by the time the younger group reaches their prime most of the current top guys will be out of theirs.
Fair enough, I don't see as how either Subban or Murray project to be number one dmen. Subban has a better shot at being one. He has the physical tools, but to me he seems to lack the mental skills to do so. I'm a huge fan or Subban's, would love to have him on the Oil, but to me, I feel he will eventually be a solid number 2, which is a first pairing dman, somewhere around 30th to 40th best dman in the league. Murray is kind of the opposite, thinks the game very well, but doesn't appear to have the physical side to match. Again, I'd love Murray on the Oil as well. He is being pitched as a little better version of Chris Phillips, does every well, but nothing great, not overly physical, but still gets the job done, maybe something like a smaller Jay Bouwmeester. So maybe a 2, maybe a 3, but either way a guy who will be a solid NHLer for a number of years. I don't think I'm selling either of them short. I think I'm being fair, could I be proved wrong by 1 or both of these guys. But being one of the best 30 to 40 dmen in the league is not a small accomplishment.
As for Yakupov, the kid put up basically the same numbers as Stamkos, in fact a little bit better. The kid has the potential to be the same kind of impact player. Montreal may have wingers, and they may have a bigger need for a centre, but that doesn't change how big of a gamble it would be for Edmonton to move him before he even has a chance to start fulfilling his potential. To me, it's just to big of risk for Edmonton to move him for anything less than a complete overpay. And even though, I like PK and Murray (if CBJ doesn't take him), I like PRV as well, and I really like Yakupov. So I'm not here bashing the Habs' players, I'm just stating my thoughts. I guess time will tell us who was right.
I agree with pretty much everything here. And again, if the Habs had anything close to someone like RNH on their team, their need for a top-line centre wouldn't be as salient. But currently it is, and it just happens to be that at least one of the top-2 centres available in this draft will be available at #3. On top of that, both are 6'2 or +, which is exactly what the doctor ordered.
As for the part in bold, I disagree. Subban already is 30th to 40th league wide. So arguing his upside is nothing more than reaching that rank in his prime simply isn't true IMO. Like Lyrical said above, his upside is top-15 (in his prime). Whether he reaches that level is debatable and depends on how he will further develop mentally (maturity, decision-making) because his game is really complex (all-around, e.g. offensive, defensive, physical, agitating, etc.) and needs much more seasoning at this point for it to all come together.
I'd even argue he has Norris-candidacy upside (unless his current peers above him never ever have down years, which is unlikely to happen) but that won't happen for another few years easily, and maybe never, I'm aware of that.
He is being pitched as a little better version of Chris Phillips
Absolutely false. He is being pitched as the guy in clipitar's avatar. His offensive instincts is his biggest strength, I have no idea why people keep projecting him to some mediocre stay at home guy. He is going to be a dynamic beauty on the back end.
I agree with pretty much everything here. And again, if the Habs had anything close to someone like RNH on their team, their need for a top-line centre wouldn't be as salient. But currently it is, and it just happens to be that at least one of the top-2 centres available in this draft will be available at #3. On top of that, both are 6'2 or +, which is exactly what the doctor ordered.
As for the part in bold, I disagree. Subban already is 30th to 40th league wide. So arguing his upside is nothing more than reaching that rank in his prime simply isn't true IMO. Like Lyrical said above, his upside is top-15 (in his prime). Whether he reaches that level is debatable and depends on how he will further develop mentally (maturity, decision-making) because his game is really complex (all-around, e.g. offensive, defensive, physical, agitating, etc.) and needs much more seasoning at this point for it to all come together.
I'd even argue he has Norris-candidacy upside (unless his current peers above him never ever have down years, which is unlikely to happen) but that won't happen for another few years easily, and maybe never, I'm aware of that.
I think you're underselling him. Right now there isn't 20 defensemen I'd rather have than Subban. He lead a first pairng and was +13 on even strength this year playing shutdown minutes and large amounts of defensive zone faceoffs while the rest of the team crumbled. Plus he has been one of the league's top penalty kill defenders by the numbers and a top powerplay goalscorer two years running.
Strangely enough he's getting under-rated by Montreal fans recently. He's an elite player at his position.
Thanks but no thanks MTL keep Subban and 3rd overall, we will keep 1st overall and draft Yakupov, and in a few years we can revisit who got the better end.
My hope is that MTL and CBJ take the two centers in this draft and give TO the shaft.
Not to sound like a homer but no by an Oiler fan. Paajarvi still has a lot to prove and Yakupov is a night puzzle piece. Subban is good but Oilers need someone who isn't going into their 3rd year. Someone who's put in 5-6 years is what the oilers need.
Fair enough, I don't see as how either Subban or Murray project to be number one dmen. Subban has a better shot at being one. He has the physical tools, but to me he seems to lack the mental skills to do so. I'm a huge fan or Subban's, would love to have him on the Oil, but to me, I feel he will eventually be a solid number 2, which is a first pairing dman, somewhere around 30th to 40th best dman in the league. Murray is kind of the opposite, thinks the game very well, but doesn't appear to have the physical side to match. Again, I'd love Murray on the Oil as well. He is being pitched as a little better version of Chris Phillips, does every well, but nothing great, not overly physical, but still gets the job done, maybe something like a smaller Jay Bouwmeester. So maybe a 2, maybe a 3, but either way a guy who will be a solid NHLer for a number of years. I don't think I'm selling either of them short. I think I'm being fair, could I be proved wrong by 1 or both of these guys. But being one of the best 30 to 40 dmen in the league is not a small accomplishment.
As for Yakupov, the kid put up basically the same numbers as Stamkos, in fact a little bit better. The kid has the potential to be the same kind of impact player. Montreal may have wingers, and they may have a bigger need for a centre, but that doesn't change how big of a gamble it would be for Edmonton to move him before he even has a chance to start fulfilling his potential. To me, it's just to big of risk for Edmonton to move him for anything less than a complete overpay. And even though, I like PK and Murray (if CBJ doesn't take him), I like PRV as well, and I really like Yakupov. So I'm not here bashing the Habs' players, I'm just stating my thoughts. I guess time will tell us who was right.
Subban was the 30th best point producing defenceman last season, and the 28th ranked defenceman in terms of points this year. When you then look at the fact that he is a well rounded defenceman who blocks shots, hits, has great speed, offensive flair AND shuts down the opposition's best lines on a regular basis while being the #1 defenceman on our team, you should kind of get the idea that he is already a #1 defenceman in this league. Did I mention he is one of the best agitators in the league and draws a ton of penalties? I don't see how you rate him as a 30-40 defenceman "eventually" while labeling him a #2 defenceman. Are you saying he is going to get worse as he ages?
As a comparable, look at the leading point producing defenceman, Karlsson. He has significantly less hits, less blocked shots, and is not an agitator. Karlsson is better at producing points, but Subban is more well rounded. The same is true of many of the defencemen who scored more than Subban. So, while Subban is only ranked 28th in terms of producing points, when you compare him to other PMD ranked higher for the number of points they score (such as Leddy or Yandle), he comes out looking better because of his entire defensive game. A defenceman who produces points is great. A defenceman who produces points AND plays good defence is even better. At this point in time, Subban is already ranked in the 20-30 range, NOT the 30-40 range. I look forward to seeing him break into the 10-20 range in the next couple of years, to be quite honest.
We're talking a potential star player versus a group of guys who are likely top six players, but who could end up as to line guys. That is quite a significant upgrade. That said, the Habs are building around Subban and Price (and to a lesser extent, Patches), so Subban won't be involved in any deals like this.
That's great thak Yakupov is that much better than them, but, the difference between them is NOT a 22yo top4 dman with potential to become a #1 dman. It's too much.
EDM can pick Yakupov and sign some UFA dmen to help along as Musil, Klefbom, Marincin and Tuebert are looking to become top 4 dmen (no clear cut top pairing guy sure but pretty solid blueline anyway).
And MTL will pick a centre at 3rd and keep Subban. Both sides are happy with that.
That's great thak Yakupov is that much better than them, but, the difference between them is NOT a 22yo top4 dman with potential to become a #1 dman. It's too much.
EDM can pick Yakupov and sign some UFA dmen to help along as Musil, Klefbom, Marincin and Tuebert are looking to become top 4 dmen (no clear cut top pairing guy sure but pretty solid blueline anyway).
And MTL will pick a centre at 3rd and keep Subban. Both sides are happy with that.
basically neither side would do the typical hfboards "you have to overpay to get my player/prospect/pick" baloney when it doesn't really put them ahead in their team plans
If you're Edmonton, I guess it depends what appeals more to you. A lineup that looks like this:
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Yakupov-Gagner-Hemsky
Whitney-Smid (assuming here, not sure what EDM's top pairing is when healthy)
or
Hall-RNH-Eberle
MPS-Gagner-Hemsky (again, assuming, MPS might not ACTUALLY be EDM's 2nd line LW right now, just needed to fit him in there)
Whitney/Smid-Subban
Smid/Whitney-Murray
That being said, I don't think either team does this. I did see an interesting tweet from an Edmonton-based radio host asking if you (Oilers fans) would trade 1st OV for Subban straight up.
