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Red Wings Prospects Tracker - Part III - Revenge of the Prospects

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Old
05-07-2012, 11:03 PM
  #201
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he looked good vs canada, i didn't notice him as much today vs the us though.

Here is his goal vs canada
snipe!

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05-07-2012, 11:09 PM
  #202
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snipe!
A few more snipes like that one and the TSN guys will even learn how to pronounce his name

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05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
  #203
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When you watch Tatar and Jarnkrok it really makes you wonder why these guys aren't shoe-in roster spots for next season. If we struggle for guys that produce offense down our lineup these two could really help. I understand the idea of two scoring lines and two checking lines but I think three scoring lines if done right has a lot more value. Vancouver I thought was a better team and more dangerous with Hodgson and a potent third line than more checkers and a meaner lineup. Also really the only way we have two checking lines that have any capability is if Sheahan or Andersson are ready to burden the load as fourth line centers, otherwise skill really is our best option. I don't believe that even in limited minutes that Tatar, Nyquist and Jarnkrok couldn't put up significant game changing points against third pairing d-men and garbage fourth line checkers in the league.

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05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
  #204
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I think Jarnkrok is a question of physical maturity. Tatar, no idea, other than that he didn't put up the points expected of him this year. I'd be game for promoting him, though.

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05-08-2012, 11:09 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I think Jarnkrok is a question of physical maturity. Tatar, no idea, other than that he didn't put up the points expected of him this year. I'd be game for promoting him, though.
If you read anything from Fraser or Holland on Tatar's season, they keep praising him because they weren't asking/expecting him to put up gigantic point numbers this season...they wanted him to focus on playing better D, which he did.

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05-08-2012, 11:47 AM
  #206
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I think Jarnkrok is a question of physical maturity. Tatar, no idea, other than that he didn't put up the points expected of him this year. I'd be game for promoting him, though.
If you're good enough to play with Danny Alfredson on the second line of the potential world championship hockey team, then you probably are mature enough.

He's nearly 6 ft and over 180 pounds. Already has great balance. I don't understand the "you're not at the weight you'll be at when you're 30" argument.

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05-08-2012, 11:49 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
When you watch Tatar and Jarnkrok it really makes you wonder why these guys aren't shoe-in roster spots for next season. If we struggle for guys that produce offense down our lineup these two could really help. I understand the idea of two scoring lines and two checking lines but I think three scoring lines if done right has a lot more value. Vancouver I thought was a better team and more dangerous with Hodgson and a potent third line than more checkers and a meaner lineup. Also really the only way we have two checking lines that have any capability is if Sheahan or Andersson are ready to burden the load as fourth line centers, otherwise skill really is our best option. I don't believe that even in limited minutes that Tatar, Nyquist and Jarnkrok couldn't put up significant game changing points against third pairing d-men and garbage fourth line checkers in the league.
I agree, but I think the reason we won't see it happen is because Backcock/Holland seem to sometimes value experience over talent. For example, IMO at least, Smith is clearly an upgrade over guys like Quincey, White, etcetera, but he didn't see any playoff time because Babcock wanted the more experienced guys who maybe wouldn't make as many mistakes.

Doubt we see all three on the roster next year, but barring a significant trade, I think all three forwards (and maybe Sheahan) will be on the 2013/2014 team.

UFA or Trade (Semin or Parise preferably)/Datsyuk/Nyquist
Filppula/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi
Helm/Jarnkrok/Franzen
Tatar/Sheahan/Miller
Andersson/Mursak

Kronwall/Ericsson
Smith/UFA (hopefully Suter)
Kindl/Quincey (or a UFA, or internal replacement...maybe Dekeyser?)

Howard
UFA (with Mrazek close to being ready)

**Would be a different look, and very effective IMO. Would love to add a big, mean veteran to the bottom six too, like a Shane Doan or something of that ilk.

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05-08-2012, 03:26 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Hakan2Holland View Post
UFA or Trade (Semin or Parise preferably)/Datsyuk/Nyquist
Filppula/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi
Helm/Jarnkrok/Franzen
Tatar/Sheahan/Miller
Andersson/Mursak

Kronwall/Ericsson
Smith/UFA (hopefully Suter)
Kindl/Quincey (or a UFA, or internal replacement...maybe Dekeyser?)

Howard
UFA (with Mrazek close to being ready)

**Would be a different look, and very effective IMO. Would love to add a big, mean veteran to the bottom six too, like a Shane Doan or something of that ilk.
If we rolled a 3rd line of Tatar/Jarnkrok/Franzen in 2 years I'd be so pumped. If that bumps Helm back to the 4th line I think we'd have to do it. Helm, Sheahan, and Miller could be a great 4th line as well.

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05-08-2012, 10:28 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
When you watch Tatar and Jarnkrok it really makes you wonder why these guys aren't shoe-in roster spots for next season. If we struggle for guys that produce offense down our lineup these two could really help. I understand the idea of two scoring lines and two checking lines but I think three scoring lines if done right has a lot more value.
I don't understand the idea of two checking lines.
Not when your scoring lines are center by Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who are checking lines themselves.
I want four lines that attack. 3 skill lines and one energy line.

The problem we don't have room for Tatar, Nyquist, Sheehan and Anderson, even if they were all ready.
You have to assume that Hudler or not, Holland will make a play for at least one UFA forward to appease Babcock.

So
  1. Datsyuk
  2. UFA
  3. Franzen
  4. Bertuzzi
  5. Zetterberg
  6. Fillpula
  7. Cleary
  8. Helm
  9. Miller
  10. Abdelkader
  11. Eaves
  12. ??Hulder
  13. ??Mursak
  14. ??Emmerton
  15. ??Nyquist
  16. ??Sheehan
  17. ??Andersson
  18. ??Holmstrom

That's a lot of forwards.

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05-09-2012, 01:00 AM
  #210
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Jason Kasiorek (Stripe) at griffinscentral.com has a nice write-up on 2nd half grades for each Griffins player.

http://www.griffinscentral.com/articles/050812.html

Here are the Wings prospect blurbs....

Quote:
Gustav Nyquist: A
Nyquist just got better as the season went on, scoring over a point per game in the second half. He played well enough to get a couple of looks in Detroit before being recalled for good after breaking the franchise rookie scoring record. With 12 goals over his last 22 games and a share of the team points lead (58), Nyquist has proven what he needed to in the AHL and is expected to make a strong showing for a job with the Wings next season out of camp.

Joakim Andersson: A
Andersson continued his evolution into a top defensive forward, adding a consistent offensive element to his arsenal. He racked up 30 points in the second half while still playing a physical, defensively responsible game. It remains to be seen whether he has the speed or intensity to take his game to the next level, but he has certainly earned a chance to try.

Tomas Tatar: A-
Tatar's offense still has not hit the plateau expected of him, but his all around game and his intensity level have improved greatly since the start of the season. He notched 13 goals in the second half and was red hot the last few weeks of the season, looking like he had found another gear. He may battle for a spot in Detroit at camp, but probably will return to Grand Rapids for another season.

Brendan Smith: B-
The organization's top defensive prospect finished an up and down season, probably his last in the AHL. While he clearly has some next level talent when he chooses to use it, he did not play up to that level consistently. He did pick it up for a stretch in the second half after a recall to Detroit, but disappeared late in the season with a playoff spot on the line. Smith still managed to score 5 goals and 17 points in 25 games, upping his season total to 10 goals and 34 points in just 57 games.

Louis-Marc Aubry: B-
Aubry just kept getting better as the season went on and earned a regular spot at center the second half. The hulking pivot used his speed and his size to give the opposition fits in the offensive zone, keeping the puck deep and working the cycle. He was not afraid to play physical, crashing and banging as well as dropping the gloves on occasion. While he didn't end up with a pile of points, that may be more attributed to his line mates and role, as a stint on the top line also produced a three-point game. He has caught management's eye and if he keeps on improving at this rate may get an NHL look next season.

Landon Ferraro: B-
After an impressive first half, Ferraro suffered through some injuries in the second but still managed a good showing. He received most of his time in a defensive posture, killing penalties and taking face-offs, but did see some time on a scoring line as well. The rookie forward looked on the verge of breaking out several times over the second half and is probably due for a big scoring increase next season. He surprised a lot of people this year with his poise, speed and complete game.

Brian Lashoff: C+
Lashoff earned high marks for playing through a painful shoulder injury most of the season and still managing to play at a high level. He shored up his defensive game over the second half and saw a lot of minutes in all situations. Despite the shoulder he still played physical, banging along the boards and in front. The Wings like his skill set and size and he should be a lock to receive a new contract to return for another season.

Frankie Pare: C
Frankie got off to another slow start before really lighting it up in the second half. The streaky sniper saved his best for last, scoring at a torrid pace the last 20 games to try and grab the last playoff spot. When he is on, Pare is a speedy, slippery scorer who goes to the net; his consistency and defensive game however remain works in progress. He has one year left on his current deal and will again be counted on to carry a large part of the offensive load.

Brent Raedeke: C
Raedeke lost ground to Aubry and Ferraro and subsequently ended up bouncing around (and out of) the lineup. He was challenged to bring a little more grit and intensity and battle more. He took advantage of injuries and recalls to re-establish himself and ended strong, scoring 8 points in his last 19 games. Brent has one more season left on his entry level contract and will need to step up a notch to stay on the radar.

Travis Ehrhardt: C
Battled back from an injury that cost him the first half of the year to claim a regular spot on the blueline. Ehrhardt had his ups and downs, but still looks to be making progress. He has probably shown enough to garner another contract with Detroit, but an injury free year would go along way towards re-establishing himself as a prospect before he gets passed by. When healthy he remains a smooth skating puck moving defenseman who is not afraid to play physical.

Mitchell Callahan: C-
Callahan showed glimpses of his potential in the second half playing on a rookie energy line with fellow freshmen Aubry and Parkes. When he was on top of his game, he was an aggressive forechecker with soft enough hands to keep the puck deep on the cycle and pot the occasional goal. He struggled to stay at the level for an extended time and seemed to have a problem balancing the physical game with the rest of it. His season ended early with a shoulder injury, but he should come back with more consistency next season.

Gleason Fournier: C-
Fournier saw spot duty down the stretch, subbing for injured players and recalls between stints in the ECHL. The smooth skating blueliner was not an impact player, but looked good at times. His propensity for bad penalties cost him more playing time as he adjusted to the speed of the AHL while still recovering from off-season shoulder surgery. He should challenge for a spot on the Griffins backend next season especially if he can quarterback the stagnant powerplay.

Logan Pyett: D+
Pyett became a frequent target of the boo-birds over the second half as his frequent turnovers and bad defensive plays led to pucks in his net. His offensive game dried up and he had a poor finish to the season, his second straight year of regression. The fourth year pro is unlikely to return based on his level of play and having passed the magic games mark to require a veterans spot next season.

Andrej Nestrasil: D
Nestrasil was largely ineffective during his time with the Griffins. He did not provide much in the way of offense with only one point in 14 games and only registered 7 shots on goal. The former QMJHL scorer must up his intensity level and keep his feet moving to have a chance in the AHL next season.

Trevor Parkes: D
Parkes never was able to get going offensively this season and may have been better served with more playing time in Toledo to get his confidence up. He was effective in spurts on an energy line, keeping the puck deep and working the cycle, but never really cemented a spot in the lineup. An injury shut down his season early and it is hoped he will have more of an impact next season with a year of experience under his belt.

Willie Coetzee: D
At the halfway point Coetzee looked to be on the verge of a 20-goal breakout season. The wheels fell off in the second half as he recorded just 2 goals and bounced around until losing his spot in the lineup and even being left off the clear day roster. The speedy sniper has got his work cut out for him to earn a spot in the AHL next season and play for a new contract with Detroit. He needs to add some grit to his game and pay the price to get into scoring areas where his quick release and accurate shot would be put to better use.

Jordan Pearce: D
Pearce became the forgotten man in the second half after his struggles took him out of the lineup and at one point had him relegated to the ECHL. He spent some time as the fourth stringer in Detroit when Howard and MacDonald went down, and then rode the pine in GR the rest of the season. Pearce has another year left, but may not have a place to play if the organization turns phenom Mrazek pro next season. He needs to regain his form of 2011 and put last season behind him, or it might be time for medical school.

Thomas McCollum: D
McCollum had an up and down second half, and clearly much more was expected from the former first round pick. He had a career high winning streak after being recalled from the ECHL, but faded down the stretch and posted some ugly numbers. McCollum has another year left on his entry-level contract and it will be a make-or-break season for the personable young netminder.

Alan Quine: Incomplete
Speedy forward motored around a lot and didn't look out of place. It was tough to judge with the limited playing time he got, but the experience should benefit him as he returns to the junior ranks next season.

Riley Sheahan: Incomplete
Sheahan left college early to start his pro career and made quite an impression in doing it. He has size, strength and speed and just needs to find his scoring touch to make a rapid move up the organization's depth chart. He was rewarded with a recall at the end of the season and made his NHL debut for Detroit.

Adam Almqvist: Incomplete
The Swedish blueliner definitely looked undersized in his brief two game audition, but he also looked comfortable, showing off some soft hands and the ability to find lanes to move the puck. An off-season in the weight room would benefit him before he takes to the ice for Grand Rapids next season.

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05-09-2012, 12:37 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Jason Kasiorek (Stripe) at griffinscentral.com has a nice write-up on 2nd half grades for each Griffins player.

http://www.griffinscentral.com/articles/050812.html

Here are the Wings prospect blurbs....
Couple comments:
On Andersson
Quote:
It remains to be seen whether he has the speed or intensity to take his game to the next level,
Lacks speed AND Intensity? If that's the case, move him out now.

On Smith
Quote:
While he clearly has some next level talent when he chooses to use it, he did not play up to that level consistently.
Some talent? My guess is that Stripe doesn't like this guy's work ethic/attitude. Hopefully Stripe is off base here.


On LM Aubry
Quote:
The hulking pivot used his speed and his size to give the opposition fits in the offensive zone, keeping the puck deep and working the cycle. He was not afraid to play physical, crashing and banging as well as dropping the gloves on occasion.
This was nice to see. I don't think Andersson was ever projected as more than a 3rd line guy. But with Sheahan, Helm and perhaps Aubry on the way... I'd take a crasher like Aubry over a guy who lacks intensity, like Andersson.
Or 3rd/4th line guys MUST play with pace and intensity.


Good to see the notes about Tatar and Ferraro.
Sucks about McCollum.
Pretty rough grade on Nestrasil for 14 games.

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05-09-2012, 12:41 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Couple comments:
On Andersson

Lacks speed AND Intensity? If that's the case, move him out now.

On Smith


Some talent? My guess is that Stripe doesn't like this guy's work ethic/attitude. Hopefully Stripe is off base here.


On LM Aubry


This was nice to see. I don't think Andersson was ever projected as more than a 3rd line guy. But with Sheahan, Helm and perhaps Aubry on the way... I'd take a crasher like Aubry over a guy who lacks intensity, like Andersson.
Or 3rd/4th line guys MUST play with pace and intensity.


Good to see the notes about Tatar and Ferraro.
Sucks about McCollum.
Pretty rough grade on Nestrasil for 14 games.
Where in the world did you get lacks intensity? He has intensity and average speed. The writer was referring to developing more of a killer instinct and trying to build more speed for an energy/grinding role.

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05-09-2012, 12:49 PM
  #213
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Where in the world did you get lacks intensity? He has intensity and average speed. The writer was referring to developing more of a killer instinct and trying to build more speed for an energy/grinding role.
Are you freakin' kidding me?
I got right out of the words I quoted.
Quote:
It remains to be seen whether he has the speed or intensity to take his game to the next level,
If it remains to be seen whether he has the intensity to take his game to the next level, I'd say that it's fair to assume Intensity is a question mark with this guy, if the writer is accurate.

Frankly, I'm tired of a having a roster full of players who don't respond when you smash their heads into the boards. If Andersson doens't play with TONS of intensity, I don't want him. He's a depth guy. And depth guys need to play hungry.

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05-09-2012, 01:28 PM
  #214
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I think Jarnkrok is a question of physical maturity. Tatar, no idea, other than that he didn't put up the points expected of him this year. I'd be game for promoting him, though.
Problem with prospects is they start to under perform at a certain point in the AHL. I think this starting to happen with Tatar (Tatter......).

Do they get board? Do they do it on purpose? Who knows. I mean, look at our latest success story: Howard. He came into the AHL playing great as newbie. As time went on, though... We all wondered if we was even going to make it into the NHL. Well, he answered that question.

If Tatar has the goods, and he plays great at camp? Bring him up and let him earn his battle scars. He's not going to blow the roof off the joint. That is, of course, he's playing with Zetterberg or Datsyuk. His point totals will look nice. Otherwise, just let him learn about how the NHL works.

Jarnkrok on the other hand. He's a toughy. Isn't playing in Europe? The jump is going to be a lot tougher for him. I think he'll need some AHL experience first.

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05-09-2012, 02:14 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Are you freakin' kidding me?
I got right out of the words I quoted.


If it remains to be seen whether he has the intensity to take his game to the next level, I'd say that it's fair to assume Intensity is a question mark with this guy, if the writer is accurate.
That's not at all what he is saying. This is clearly your way of taking something he said and spinning it to be negative. He needs more intensity and speed for another level, A doesn't lend to B, unfortunately for you.

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05-09-2012, 03:06 PM
  #216
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That's not at all what he is saying. This is clearly your way of taking something he said and spinning it to be negative. He needs more intensity and speed for another level, A doesn't lend to B, unfortunately for you.
Needing more intensity and lacking intensity are two different thing?

: laugh:
sigh

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05-09-2012, 07:11 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Needing more intensity and lacking intensity are two different thing?

: laugh:
sigh
Yes.

"needs to improve shot" =/= "shot sucks".

"lacks high end speed" =/= speed sucks

"would like to see him improve balance" =/= "lacks balance"

It's a simple concept. It's not a either or scenario, it rarely ever is. The fact you can't grasp that concept really does show your age, unfortunately.

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05-09-2012, 09:52 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
If you're good enough to play with Danny Alfredson on the second line of the potential world championship hockey team, then you probably are mature enough.

He's nearly 6 ft and over 180 pounds. Already has great balance. I don't understand the "you're not at the weight you'll be at when you're 30" argument.
1. WC rosters are pretty weak.
2. It's a lot easier for a tiny guy to play well on big international ice than on tiny North American ice.

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05-09-2012, 10:06 PM
  #219
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Yes.

"needs to improve shot" =/= "shot sucks".

"lacks high end speed" =/= speed sucks

"would like to see him improve balance" =/= "lacks balance"

It's a simple concept. It's not a either or scenario, it rarely ever is. The fact you can't grasp that concept really does show your age, unfortunately.
Where did I use the word "Suck"

My position is clear.
I see Andersson as a depth player. A 4th line center to start. And a 3rd line center if he improves.
My preference is to have 4th liners who don't have any questions about their intensity.
Reading Stripe, a guy who is about as knowledgeable about the Griffs as they come, there are questions about his intensity.

I don't want anyone on my energy line if they lack intensity. Period.
Lack of speed? Lack of Intensity? No thanks.

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05-10-2012, 12:29 AM
  #220
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Sucks to hear about an observation that Andersson may not have NHL-level intensity because that can really increase a prospect's chances.

But the fourth line defensive center that the Wings need to solidify their bottom six will not be home grown; in case that wasn't obvious to anyone else.

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05-10-2012, 02:34 AM
  #221
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Sucks to hear about an observation that Andersson may not have NHL-level intensity because that can really increase a prospect's chances.

But the fourth line defensive center that the Wings need to solidify their bottom six will not be home grown; in case that wasn't obvious to anyone else.
Why is that?
It could be Helm. Homegrown.
It could be Sheahan. Homegrown.
It might be Emmerton.
It might be Andersson.
It might be Abdelkader.

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05-10-2012, 08:57 AM
  #222
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"It remains to be seen whether he has the speed OR intensity".

That's pretty much what we all wonder around here? What are you even getting at? It doesn't say speed AND intensity, the writer is just trying to describe his situation if he is to make the NHL. Either you get faster, OR you become sandpaper. Hopefully both, but one of the two would do as a 4th liner. Otherwise he wouldn't have graded him an A. Andersson has great compete level, some of the best on the whole Griffins team.

Everybody here watching the Griffins have been saying this about Andersson's speed and all of a sudden it comes as news.. He has become better, but NHL level is another step. He could become more explosive, that first step is very important to have.

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05-10-2012, 09:03 AM
  #223
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1. WC rosters are pretty weak.
2. It's a lot easier for a tiny guy to play well on big international ice than on tiny North American ice.
This. No one expects little guys to do better on small ice than big ice.

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05-10-2012, 09:52 AM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Why is that?
It could be Helm. Homegrown.
It could be Sheahan. Homegrown.
It might be Emmerton.
It might be Andersson.
It might be Abdelkader.
It could be. They'd have to show a game that's mature beyond their years though. I didn't specify but I was talking about right now. Helm isn't a finished product yet imo (or at least I hope not) but I'd love him as the team's fourth line center because it likely means they'll have three scoring lines.

In the case of three scoring lines though I don't want to see anymore of the likes of Ville Leino, Jason Williams, sometimes Jiri Hudler, etc. If they're skilled then they should also be able to skate well and be assertive and willing to get involved in the play. Their intensity should be good.

But sometimes it seems like the Wings want to promote Helm as their 3rd line center, which is fine to me. It just leaves a hole on the 4th line down the middle. Seems like Abdelkader can't really crash and bang or be at his most effective unless he's a winger. Emmerton... I mean, come on. Sheahan will need two years to develop. And now Andersson is a little more questionable in terms of his ability to play at the NHL level (then again what rookie isn't?).

But even if this potential 4th line center was homegrown at this point, they would still need years of experience before the bottom six can become more clutch. In terms of the bottom not coming up with a big goal, it's kind of what we've seen the past few years in the playoffs before this year somewhat.

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05-10-2012, 10:36 AM
  #225
Winger98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FabricDetails View Post
But sometimes it seems like the Wings want to promote Helm as their 3rd line center, which is fine to me. It just leaves a hole on the 4th line down the middle. Seems like Abdelkader can't really crash and bang or be at his most effective unless he's a winger. Emmerton... I mean, come on. Sheahan will need two years to develop. And now Andersson is a little more questionable in terms of his ability to play at the NHL level (then again what rookie isn't?).
I ragged on Emmerton pretty much the whole year, but the guy upped his game in the playoffs. He was still lousy at the draw, but he was a rookie, and hopefully that should improve. If he can carry the progress he made at the end of this past season over to next year, I think he could be a decent 4th line center. We could probably go out and sign someone better, but if we upgrade the top half of the forwards instead, giving Emmerton a shot to continue improving isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I think Sheahan could be up next year, if we had the roster space. He'll be in GR, centering one of the top2 lines, but I think his game is solid enough to transition to the fourth line right now.

And I wouldn't be against Gator centering the fourth line, depending on who we have as his wingers. I hate losing what physicality he brings when he's on the wing, but if we can drop a bruiser or two in next to him? I could live with it.

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