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List of candidates for GM and Coach Part List of candidates for GM and Coach Part V

View Poll Results: Choose your Destiny
Claude Julien 29 28.16%
Alain Vigneault 74 71.84%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-15-2012, 09:11 AM
  #201
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I am getting a little anxious about the search seeing as we have a potential candidate for coach about to be available. A former one too.

Personally at this point I'd like to see what Roy could do, but Alain would be a safe choice.

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04-15-2012, 09:16 AM
  #202
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I am getting a little anxious about the search seeing as we have a potential candidate for coach about to be available. A former one too.

Personally at this point I'd like to see what Roy could do, but Alain would be a safe choice.
Both would be acclaimed by the fans at the onset, no doubts. Both have their strengths and weaknesses as well. I am wondering if this wind of changes is not an opportunity to see what Roy can do (As everyone knows, I like his upsides as a Coach). We are not going for the cup next year, we simply do not have the lineup for that. May be a good time to see if Roy really has that little something that can make someone a great coach? The risks are not very high at this point, not as if we had the soldiers to possibly win the war?


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04-15-2012, 10:26 AM
  #203
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Brisebois surrounded himself with these three in Hamilton and brought all three with him to Tampa.
Head Coach: Guy Boucher
Assistant Coach: Martin Raymond
Assistant Coach: Daniel Lacroix

I'd say that's a great indication of his ability to surround himself with talented people. Too bad Rolosson was crap this season, otherwise Boucher would be looking golden. Brisebois also helped bring in guys like Moore, Desjardins, and M.A. Bergeron.

I should mention that Moore fetched Tampa a 2nd at the deadline. And M.A. Bergeron was a cheap pick-up that helped out on the powerplay. Desjardins won a couple of games for the Lightning last year and has been solid with Lake Erie Monsters
Pretty sure Guy Boucher was hired by Tampa, before Julien Brisebois was.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534539
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5271902

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04-15-2012, 10:31 AM
  #204
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What is this "if you aren't lying" business?

I work with the people who have provided me THEIR input and views.

One of my colleagues has an MBA. These are not anti-intellectual illiterate knuckle draggers. It is beyond hilarious that various "lists" from so-called experts (journalists with agendas who routinely invent controversies so there is something to write about) are held as more germane evidence of what "hockey people" say about Brisebois.

I talk hockey with these guys all the time because we love talking hockey. Neither of them has a personal vendetta against Brisebois, they just think he is not a good choice based on their own interactions with him and/or what they have heard or seen from multiple other sources.
So on the one hand, you're downplaying reporters (and former referees, coaches, etc) and their contacts. But on the other hand, you're choosing to believe people that you know who claim knowing it all? Sounds very, very farfetched if you ask me. But we do live in a free world, you can believe what you want.

The reality of it is however, that the truth is only known by the people involved and nothing short of a in depth job interview will reveal who the best candidate is. The advantage that the Habs have however on BriseBois is that they know him as he was with the organization for almost 10 years. Whether that's a plus or plays against him is for management to determine, but something tells me that he wouldn't have been with the team had he not done a good job and the reason why they allowed Tampa to talk to him is because they won't keep someone from advancing... at least that's what they've claimed all along.

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04-15-2012, 10:45 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Pine View Post
Pretty sure Guy Boucher was hired by Tampa, before Julien Brisebois was.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534539
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5271902
Yes, that certainly looks like he was indeed.

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04-15-2012, 10:50 AM
  #206
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Really? I never heard that.. I thought Lemaire hated the media here and would never, ever be back. I did hear about Robinson wanting to be assistant coach for the D and Gauthier said, thanks but no thanks...
It's true but I don't think the deal was finalized per se. Lemaire had the understanding that the job was pretty much his then while he was on a fishing trip he heard via the radio that the job had been handed to Jacques Martin instead. And that's how he found out he didn't get the job.

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04-15-2012, 12:05 PM
  #207
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It's true but I don't think the deal was finalized per se. Lemaire had the understanding that the job was pretty much his then while he was on a fishing trip he heard via the radio that the job had been handed to Jacques Martin instead. And that's how he found out he didn't get the job.
Further to that, the story goes that he had asked for what was considered to be a kings random to coach for the Habs and said it was his final offer. Bob thought it was exorbitant and went with Martin.

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04-15-2012, 12:21 PM
  #208
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So on the one hand, you're downplaying reporters (and former referees, coaches, etc) and their contacts. But on the other hand, you're choosing to believe people that you know who claim knowing it all? Sounds very, very farfetched if you ask me. But we do live in a free world, you can believe what you want.

The reality of it is however, that the truth is only known by the people involved and nothing short of a in depth job interview will reveal who the best candidate is. The advantage that the Habs have however on BriseBois is that they know him as he was with the organization for almost 10 years. Whether that's a plus or plays against him is for management to determine, but something tells me that he wouldn't have been with the team had he not done a good job and the reason why they allowed Tampa to talk to him is because they won't keep someone from advancing... at least that's what they've claimed all along.
So he went from assistant GM in Montreal to assistant GM in Tampa... ???? !!!!

lateral move at best.

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04-15-2012, 12:35 PM
  #209
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It's true but I don't think the deal was finalized per se. Lemaire had the understanding that the job was pretty much his then while he was on a fishing trip he heard via the radio that the job had been handed to Jacques Martin instead. And that's how he found out he didn't get the job.
Gauthier = Idiot..

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04-15-2012, 12:36 PM
  #210
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Gauthier = Idiot..
Gainey is the one who hired Martin, not Gauthier.

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04-15-2012, 12:40 PM
  #211
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So he went from assistant GM in Montreal to assistant GM in Tampa... ???? !!!!

lateral move at best.
Not necessarily so. Brisebois has more responsibilities in his role of Assistant GM in TB than he did in Montreal. In Montreal, he was pretty exclusively a contract and numbers guy. His bio in Tampa reads a more diverse role...that does not really equal to a lateral move even if the job title is the same.

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04-15-2012, 12:41 PM
  #212
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Gainey is the one who hired Martin, not Gauthier.
I think this was one of the better moves by Gainey (hiring Martin), and one of the worst moves that Gauthier did (firing Martin).

As for a new GM, I'm hoping they really do take their time, waiting until deeper into the playoffs when more teams drop out, and potentially making available more candidates. And if Vancouver keeps losing Hab's may have found their next coach.

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04-15-2012, 12:43 PM
  #213
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Gainey is the one who hired Martin, not Gauthier.
Gainey knew he was on his way out and I'm sure Martin was Gauthier's guy..

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04-15-2012, 02:41 PM
  #214
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Gainey is the one who hired Martin, not Gauthier.
Gainey=Gauthier=idiot

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04-15-2012, 03:20 PM
  #215
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this is a pretty good read

We talk about who should get the job but how about who shouldnt

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...date#storyjump

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04-15-2012, 03:28 PM
  #216
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Not necessarily so. Brisebois has more responsibilities in his role of Assistant GM in TB than he did in Montreal. In Montreal, he was pretty exclusively a contract and numbers guy. His bio in Tampa reads a more diverse role...that does not really equal to a lateral move even if the job title is the same.
He was also in charge of the Hamilton Bulldogs.

No. Really, no bigger responsabilities overall.

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04-15-2012, 04:02 PM
  #217
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this is a pretty good read

We talk about who should get the job but how about who shouldnt

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...date#storyjump
This was good for a laugh. Thanks for posting this.


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He was also in charge of the Hamilton Bulldogs.

No. Really, no bigger responsabilities overall.
He had no say in player movement, trades and talent evaluation in Montreal where he does in TB according to the team website. That is a big upgrade in roles for an assistant GM, if you ask me.

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04-15-2012, 04:56 PM
  #218
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This was good for a laugh. Thanks for posting this.




He had no say in player movement, trades and talent evaluation in Montreal where he does in TB according to the team website. That is a big upgrade in roles for an assistant GM, if you ask me.
So by your own admission he is at 21 months of experience in these key areas.
That is not a strong enough resume to entrust hockey's greatest franchise.

Compare this with, say Marc Bergevin who has almost 5 full years in roles in which talent evaluation is paramount. This is in addition to 20 years as a player.

I will take Bergevin any day of the week over Brisebois (and twice on Sundays)

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04-15-2012, 05:04 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Habitualwinner View Post
So by your own admission he is at 21 months of experience in these key areas.
That is not a strong enough resume to entrust hockey's greatest franchise.

Compare this with, say Marc Bergevin who has almost 5 full years in roles in which talent evaluation is paramount. This is in addition to 20 years as a player.

I will take Bergevin any day of the week over Brisebois (and twice on Sundays)
Again, a single criteria does not make someone. That line of thinking is Junior stuff as Lemaire would qualify it. However, Brisebois was involved in those decision as the GM of Hamilton and Norfolks as wlel as Tampa Bay for 5 years now. You can design a tiny box and decide that it is your world. However, do not expect experts to follow your approach any time soon.

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04-15-2012, 05:10 PM
  #220
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For some history revisionists here that have absolutely no clue of what Pat Burns was about as a junior coach:
- Pat Burns was an arrogant sob as a coach
- He screamed at refs like the Bergerons, Lapointes, Drapeaus, etc.
- He was not well liked as a cop and it took the WORLD for the police force to give him a 'sans solde' to coach full time. Nobody cried when he left the force.
- He did good with the Piques but had the GREAT fortunes to have Gretzky as an owner, and the best junior GM in the HISTORY of the Q: Charlie Henry. The team Charlie built in 1985 was probably the best junior team in the history of the Q: Luc Robitaille, Guy Rouleau, Stéphane Matteau, Sylvain Côté (played for the Whalers and Caps and was pretty solid), Benoit Brunet (as a rookie), Rick Hayward, Jean-Marc Routhier (played for the Nords), Sam Lang and Joe Foglietta. And I forgot others. It was an invincible squad, that lost the Mem Cup finals because of the tourney format at the time. If not for that, they would have crushed Martin's team. I truly believe that. but that's another story. Fact of the matter is: he overused Rouleau and Robitaille all season long. They were, BY FAR, the best players in the Q. They were playing every two shifts when he needed a goal. And most often than not, he did get it. And Gretzky paid for those players. Rouleau had a 280ZX for a reason...
I loved Pat Burns, don't ever think otherwise. He helped me as a young reporter covering the team for my college paper. But he was 'at the right place at the right time'.

Savard hired him because Perron had no control on his young bums. Burns was a tough cop. Savard knew that he needed a sob as a coach. It worked for 3 seasons. Worked pretty good. Until Burns lost control of some elements, including Corson (who was a bar-addict). He got fired, and replaced by a 'good guy', in Jacques Demers.

All I'm saying is: yes Pat Roy did do some 'junior stuff'. They all did. At least, he didn't fight like Burns did against Ron Lapointe. That, I can tell you that.
First of all, I didn't bring up Pat Burns. Right Plae At the Right Time? Okay, that's fine... if the debate were between Roy and Burns maybe this would matter but it doesn't.

Patrick Roy DID have a scrap. That's what the pending assault charges were about. Moreover, he sent his son to assault some kid who didn't want to fight and then HE had assault charges to face.

And I'm sorry but Burns not being a popular cop or being a hothead is not in the same ballpark here. Moreover, the guy did not storm off on his own team or have the ego that Roy does. Arrogant coach? If you say so... but he didn't come to Montreal with the kind of craziness that would accompany Roy. Nobody knew who that guy was when he showed up. There's already silly talk of Roy getting the GM job and it's going to be added pressure to the GM that's already there.

Montreal is a circus to begin with. Roy shows up its going to be 10 times worse and I think his arrogance is going to get in the way. Mix it with immature players and his hot temper... I think it spells disaster. I think bringing him on is a very, very bad idea. I'd much rather see him go to the Nordiques and watch the Titanic from here.

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04-15-2012, 05:35 PM
  #221
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Montreal is a circus to begin with. Roy shows up its going to be 10 times worse and I think his arrogance is going to get in the way. Mix it with immature players and his hot temper... I think it spells disaster. I think bringing him on is a very, very bad idea. I'd much rather see him go to the Nordiques and watch the Titanic from here.
First, if anything, if Roy could attract all the spotlights on him instead of the players, I know a bunch of playes who will be damn happy to see that happening.

Then, Roy, and his ego, are still to this day riding a freakin bus all over Quebec for the past how many years now? And he's not taking the plane while his players are going on bus. He does that for the right reasons. So he has a temper. It's about freakin time that somebody on this ****ing team has a temper. Every team that wins happens to have some people who does whether it's management, coaching or players. He needs to control it, which he'll do 'cause he's not stupid and realize he's in the NHL and if he wants to stay, he'll have to control it.

Personnally, I see him as a winner, as a guy who does not accept laziness, as guy who will be able to transmit this to his players and will not accept failure.

Add the fact that there's a limit to what a coach can do. We're seeing it with Bylsma this year. So I read people and you'd think that the coach will single handidly change the course of this team. He will help. But he'll need the players to do so. He'll need the goalie to stop the puck.

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04-15-2012, 05:42 PM
  #222
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Again, a single criteria does not make someone. That line of thinking is Junior stuff as Lemaire would qualify it. However, Brisebois was involved in those decision as the GM of Hamilton and Norfolks as wlel as Tampa Bay for 5 years now. You can design a tiny box and decide that it is your world. However, do not expect experts to follow your approach any time soon.
?? You said that he was not involved in those decisions as GM of Hamilton, then you said it was an added responsibility with the TB organization. Which is it?

You mentioned three criteria, I chose the most important one, player evaluation. Everything a GM does emanates from player evaluation: trades,promotions/demotions, contract negotiations. It is not a "tiny box", it is the tool box when it comes to being a successful general manager.

I don't know about your stable of so-called experts, any astute hockey person would name superior player evaluation abilities as the glue that keeps things together.

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04-15-2012, 05:44 PM
  #223
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?? You said that he was not involved in those decisions as GM of Hamilton, then you said it was an added responsibility with the TB organization. Which is it?

You mentioned three criteria, I chose the most important one, player evaluation. Everything a GM does emanates from player evaluation: trades,promotions/demotions, contract negotiations. It is not a "tiny box", it is the tool box when it comes to being a successful general manager.

I don't know about your stable of so-called experts, any astute hockey person would name superior player evaluation abilities as the glue that keeps things together.
Go read my note again. I said he was not part of those decisions in Montreal. As assistant GM in Montreal, his role was confined to contracts, CBA and cap rules interpretation. Then later got involved with Hockey Operations. In Hamilton as a GM, he had a definite role in players movement, trades and talent assessment. Here is the key sentence that should have given you a clue that we were talking about Montreal (That is a big upgrade in roles for an assistant GM, if you ask me.). It does not say GM in Hamilton, it says Assistant GM....the Montreal portion of his role.

Oh and the experts are all in the public domain and published for all to see (not some hearsay from coworkers that may know someone who know someone who told them - if that was even true to begin with).


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04-15-2012, 06:34 PM
  #224
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Give him Timmins' job then, not the GM's job.

Being a GM is way more that judging talent. + GM is usually the guy seeing not much of the youth at Junior level.
Timmins is Director of Player Development.

Bergevin is Assistant GM in Chicago. Bergevin did not see youth or junior level-play, he is busy being the Assistant GM not a Scout (clearly you do not know the difference between an Assistant GM and a Scout).

You give Bergevin the GM job in Montreal, which is what he'll likely get. The Lightning were eliminated from the playoffs already, if BriseBois was Molson's guy he would've hired him already. Molson will wait until the Blackhawks season is done before he likely hires Bergevin - bank on it.

Being a GM is specifically judging talent, that is the whole point of the job. As a GM, you evaluate who you're going hire as your Coaching Staff, and you evaluate which players you're going to sign. A GM who does not judge/know talent will assemble a garbage team, contrary to one who eyes good talent will put a great team together.

Bergevin has also won the Cup in 2010, he knows the winning model to the current game, we want recently proven winners.


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04-15-2012, 06:44 PM
  #225
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Timmins is Director of Player Development.

Bergevin is Assistant GM in Chicago. Bergevin did not see youth or junior level-play, he is busy being the Assistant GM not a Scout (clearly you do not know the difference between an Assistant GM and a Scout).

You give Bergevin the GM job in Montreal, which is what he'll likely get. The Lightning were eliminated from the playoffs already, if BriseBois was Molson's guy he would've hired him already. Molson will wait until the Blackhawks season is done before he likely hires Bergevin - bank on it.

Being a GM is specifically judging talent, that is the whole point of the job. As a GM, you evaluate who you're going hire as your Coaching Staff, and you evaluate which players you're going to sign. A GM who does not judge/know talent will assemble a garbage team, contrary to one who eyes good talent will put a great team together.

Bergevin has also won the Cup in 2010, he knows the winning model to the current game, we want recently proven winners.
Yet, talent assessment was supposed to be Gauthier s strong point. Not only was it not so good at that but he was weak in all other facets of the GM job. You are kidding yourself thinking that the GMs job is all about talent assessment. Timmins does the Junior talent assessment (with his team) and the pro scouts does the NHL talent assessment. When was the last time you saw Gauthier or any other NHL GM go to a game in the Q or in the OHL? Those are extremely rare occasions.

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