size and nastiness on the backend with Marincin, Gernat, Musil, Plante and Teubert are on the way, nevermind Peckham and Sutton.
Plante will not have an NHL career. Mark my word. That guy is going to be a career AHLer. Peckham's career is in jeopardy if he doesn't have a bounce back season next year. Tuebert's toughness is way over sold, he's basically tall and skill and isn't a big hitter or an intimidating figure.
You're just further highlighting, we keep acquiring guys who have either nastiness or skill, never both.
The tiny flashes of nastiness Jeff Petry is starting to show are the brightest prospect we have right now for a true #1 D-man to arrive here.
Plante will not have an NHL career. Mark my word. That guy is going to be a career AHLer. Peckham's career is in jeopardy if he doesn't have a bounce back season next year. Tuebert's toughness is way over sold, he's basically tall and skill and isn't a big hitter or an intimidating figure.
You're just further highlighting, we keep acquiring guys who have either nastiness or skill, never both.
The tiny flashes of nastiness Jeff Petry is starting to show are the brightest prospect we have right now for a true #1 D-man to arrive here.
yes, I didn't want to mention Plante or Peckham but they're both still young today and Teubert is still filling out, I'm not worried about him.
Petry is going to become a legitimate top 2 defenceman if he's not already and yes he does possess size and can hit, kind of reminds me of Duncan Keith.
I disagree, I think the Oilers already bite. The only way to not bite so much is to get more skill.
Hahaha.
I think this notion of the Oilers needing more "bite" to compare to other teams is a little bit of "the grass is always greener" or maybe "thuggier."
Not every team is built in the Boston/Nashville mode, and I'd argue a lot of the more successful ones over the past few seasons - Detroit, Pittsburgh, San Jose, Vancouver - weren't exactly loaded with your typical "1st line Power Forwards." You do need some hard-hitters that can take regular shifts, but they don't need to be scoring 30 goals as well. You can throw a guy like Abdelkader or Lapierre on your Top 6 for a few shifts a game in addition to their regular minutes.
But I don't think those players really win playoff series so much as they help you not to lose one when you go against a "thuggier" team.
What you really need is skill players who don't disappear when the heat is on. The guys who will take a lick to make a play, or strong and feisty enough to win battles along their boards with their hands *and* their elbows. Guys like Zetterberg and Havlat.
Clowes players do help you win games, but you need Brad Richards players to win series and Cups.
It's not really "bite" I think, so much as it is "fight." You need players with "fight" from your 4th line up to your Top 6.
Frankly, while our kids need to get a bit stronger and smarter, I'm not the least bit worried about the amount of fight in them, or whether or not they'll soon have both the heart and the heft to win playoff series.
I agree that the team does need to add more bite to the lineup especially after watching these playoff games but did the OP really suggest that we should trade Yakupov for Clowe and D. Murray?
I've seen some bad proposals (mainly on the trade board) for Yakupov but this one has to be the worst. There are a lot less valuable assets that we can trade for players like Clowe and Murray, you don't trade a potential franchise player for those guys.
Trade Gagner+mid tier prospect or pick for Clowe or trade for Malone who could be had for cheaper, sign a player like Sarich and sign Dubinsky to replace Gagner. Done, there's your bite.
Also, Yakupov is physically strong, he might be kind of short but he's not far from 200 lbs and plays physical when he needs to. Hall was starting to assert himself physically more this season and will only get more physical as he fills out more and has a healthy shoulder for the first time in years. Hell, even RNH isn't a creampuff with a teenagers body, he will only get tougher. Eberle is also wiry strong so it's not like these guys will get pushed around constantly especially when they mature some more.
Adding a big, physical guy to the top 6 to balance out the skill would make a world of difference but we don't need to trade one of our elite skilled players to get that guy.
I still can't believe that somebody proposed to trade Yakupov for those guys and was actually serious about it.
The Oilers need to start deciding on their prospects sooner. Plante has been looking like a career minor leaguer for 2 seasons. Two years ago maybe you could have traded him for a prospect that might make it. Now, you will be able to swap him for another career AHLer. Time for the scouts to earn their money and let the GM know who isn't a big leaguer, so they can moved for someone who they think might be.
The Oilers need to start deciding on their prospects sooner. Plante has been looking like a career minor leaguer for 2 seasons. Two years ago maybe you could have traded him for a prospect that might make it. Now, you will be able to swap him for another career AHLer. Time for the scouts to earn their money and let the GM know who isn't a big leaguer, so they can moved for someone who they think might be.
That is, however, what you pay your scouts and GM for. To assess talent and make good deals.
You can't simply keep hoping that what you need will fall to you at the spots you draft, or that everyone you draft is going to make it.
Will you win every trade? Nope. But if you have a good staff, you will win more than you lose. People talk about the Detroit model. That is part of what the Detroit model is. They are willing to deal prospects for players. The key is deal them while they are still "potential", not when they are "busts".
Go back and look at a lot of the trades Detroit has made for established players. They were more than willing to deal high draft picks. And they didn't lose many of those trades.
Pick two of the d prospects that you will not part with. Be willing to trade the rest for NHL players. Maybe its Klefbom and Marincin. Maybe its Gernat and Teubert. Doesn't matter, just pick the two you will not deal, and the rest are touchable. Same with your forwards.
Might blow it. But a reasonable case can be made that 1/2 of all the prospects in the system will never even be a part-time NHL player. Its fine to keep OKC well stocked, but the real purpose of that team is to make the Oilers better. If they lose good players so that the Oilers improve, so be it.
Watching Philly play Pittsburgh you'd think "less skill" would be the last thing that comes to mind. Toughness and two way players is good. Philly has mobile, skilled players both on offense and defense and tons of offensive depth. Skill on all 4 lines.
The Oilers may not be big and bruising but they will have amazing offensive depth that they could spread over 3 lines similar to Philly. Hopefully the grit and toughness can come via trade and picks in lower rounds with guys like Pitlick, Hartikainen and Lander. They are on their way.
Watching Philly play Pittsburgh you'd think "less skill" would be the last thing that comes to mind. Toughness and two way players is good. Philly has mobile, skilled players both on offense and defense and tons of offensive depth. Skill on all 4 lines.
The Oilers may not be big and bruising but they will have amazing offensive depth that they could spread over 3 lines similar to Philly. Hopefully the grit and toughness can come via trade and picks in lower rounds with guys like Pitlick, Hartikainen and Lander. They are on their way.
Philly has grit in their top lines with Hartnell, Simmonds, Couturier (somewhat). We need like 1 of those.
Eberle, Hall, Nuge, Yakupov are all young if they are coached properly and mature properly they will be able to be fine definsively. Datsyuk is only 175 pounds but he is a great defensive player. Grit guy's are way easier to aquire, than guys like that.
Yakupov may end up being the most powerfull of the group, he has great lower body strength and at 190 pounds he will easily hit 200 in his prime. He will be little tank out there. There are tons of youtube clips showing him lay out big hits, I don't know why everyone is acting like this pick will make us weaker physically.
Philly has grit in their top lines with Hartnell, Simmonds, Couturier (somewhat). We need like 1 of those.
Of course, but that's what I was saying, they are on their way. Hartikainen will be a welcome addition. They are accumulating good assets which will allow them to make some trades for additional grit. It's all about character in my opinion. Hall and RNH aren't soft either. I think in time things will sort themselves out. Cautiously optimistic that way. I like Pitlick, I like Lander too. Petry, Smid, Sutton bring a physical element to the back end as well.
Just saying that you can never have too much skill, it opens the doors.
The Oilers need to start deciding on their prospects sooner. Plante has been looking like a career minor leaguer for 2 seasons. Two years ago maybe you could have traded him for a prospect that might make it. Now, you will be able to swap him for another career AHLer. Time for the scouts to earn their money and let the GM know who isn't a big leaguer, so they can moved for someone who they think might be.
Easier said than done. Not to mention that by keeping and developing Plante, they were hoping he would become an NHL'er. And he was easily the best d-man in Oklahoma (and best injury call up option) until he was injured this year. Will he be a superstar? Nope. Could he still end up as an NHL regular? Outside chance, but yes. D-men take longer to develop, and Plante made some positive strides in the last year, until, as I mentioned, the injury.
Eberle, Hall, Nuge, Yakupov are all young if they are coached properly and mature properly they will be able to be fine definsively. Datsyuk is only 175 pounds but he is a great defensive player. Grit guy's are way easier to aquire, than guys like that.
Yakupov may end up being the most powerfull of the group, he has great lower body strength and at 190 pounds he will easily hit 200 in his prime. He will be little tank out there. There are tons of youtube clips showing him lay out big hits, I don't know why everyone is acting like this pick will make us weaker physically.
Datsyuk's 194 according to NHL.com, I really don't think he's only 175.
That nitpick aside, I agree that grit and 2-way talent aren't necessarily exclusively tied to size. Eberle is an example of a gritty, two-way winger who's on the smaller side. Granted, physicality isn't something that's unimportant either. I think by the time we're contenders, we'll have added a top-6 powerforward winger to ride shotgun with Ebs and RNH. Yakupov should be fine handling physical play, he's a solid build and should fill out to be a good size. Don't mind him and Hall together as long as the center is a good two-way guy.
__________________ CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada
Datsyuk's 194 according to NHL.com, I really don't think he's only 175.
That nitpick aside, I agree that grit and 2-way talent aren't necessarily exclusively tied to size. Eberle is an example of a gritty, two-way winger who's on the smaller side. Granted, physicality isn't something that's unimportant either. I think by the time we're contenders, we'll have added a top-6 powerforward winger to ride shotgun with Ebs and RNH. Yakupov should be fine handling physical play, he's a solid build and should fill out to be a good size. Don't mind him and Hall together as long as the center is a good two-way guy.
Wait a second, Eberle is gritty? Eberle goes to the tough areas, yes, but I would not go as far as calling him gritty. He's two-way for sure, and is one of the best scorers in the NHL, so it don't mattah .
Top-6 PowerForward? Hartski! He should ride shotgun with Ebs and RNH. Trust me - if we had more than two people that could score and/or Renney didn't break them up the game after Hartski's two goal outpour, we'd be talking bout this line for next season as No. 1.
Two-way centre? Gagner's been quite fine in that role, with the highest plus-minus (poor indicator, but hey!) and, to be quite honest, a good job at covering the points. One game flanked by Hall and Eberle caused 8 points. Five games flanked by Hall and Yakupov? A man can dream. That being said, I have reservations about calling him the long-term solution. Someone mentioned Dubinsky, how could we pry him out of NY?
As to the question - oh god, do not ship out skill for bite. Keep skill, acquire bite.
Wait a second, Eberle is gritty? Eberle goes to the tough areas, yes, but I would not go as far as calling him gritty. He's two-way for sure, and is one of the best scorers in the NHL, so it don't mattah .
Top-6 PowerForward? Hartski! He should ride shotgun with Ebs and RNH. Trust me - if we had more than two people that could score and/or Renney didn't break them up the game after Hartski's two goal outpour, we'd be talking bout this line for next season as No. 1.
Two-way centre? Gagner's been quite fine in that role, with the highest plus-minus (poor indicator, but hey!) and, to be quite honest, a good job at covering the points. One game flanked by Hall and Eberle caused 8 points. Five games flanked by Hall and Yakupov? A man can dream. That being said, I have reservations about calling him the long-term solution. Someone mentioned Dubinsky, how could we pry him out of NY?
As to the question - oh god, do not ship out skill for bite. Keep skill, acquire bite.
Grit for me is working the corners, driving the net, and not shying away from physicality. Eberle does all of that. I wouldn't call him tough or physical though, doesn't lay the body enough and isn't the type to drop the gloves (that doesn't mean he's soft).
Harti is a fill-in for the top-6. Let's be realistic, he's not going to be on a Cup contender's top-six. Wouldn't call him a powerforward either. He's more of a two-way grinder.
Grit for me is working the corners, driving the net, and not shying away from physicality. Eberle does all of that. I wouldn't call him tough or physical though, doesn't lay the body enough and isn't the type to drop the gloves (that doesn't mean he's soft).
Harti is a fill-in for the top-6. Let's be realistic, he's not going to be on a Cup contender's top-six. Wouldn't call him a powerforward either. He's more of a two-way grinder.
Lol - Grit for me is toughness and physicality, coupled with all you've mentioned - in your definition, he's gritty and then some, which is most excellent.
Hey! I see a lot of good things in Harti. And you never know who's in a Cup contender's top-six till they make it there. So in the meantime, I'll keep hoping.
I do understand he's more of the Jones mould in a two-way grinder right now... Do you think Penner's a better pick up then?
They still need skill. 21st in goals scored this season isn't good enough.
But, yeah, even if the Oilers were somehow magically dropped into the playoffs, they'd lose the series in three games while getting their butts kicked.
Hartikainen has shown flashes of being a complementary player on a skill line but he hasn't even been a scorer in the AHL yet. The Holmstrom to our Datsyuks and Zetterbergs, ideally, but expectations for him are getting too high, too soon.
Score. Induce penalties. Score some more. No team will catch you.
Pass the peanut butter.
I agree. Bite is nice, but putting the puck in the net is all that matters. Are we forgetting already the the Red Wings have been the most successful team during the last 20 years and they have about 0 bite.
Score. Induce penalties. Score some more. No team will catch you.
Pass the peanut butter.
That won't fly in the playoffs...as the Canucks will attest to, and they're probably the most skilled team in the conference.
Bite isn't limited to Eagers and Hordichuks. You need players who won't back down while playing a skilled game. That's why the Mike Richards of the league are so valuable.
.
