I have said it before the Flyers are a great organization .
Why , simply put they draft , develop players and know where they stand at all times in this league
They dont bandaid and patch like we do , and put players in roles they can fill
like I said they made out like bandits in the Carter Richard trades ... STEALS
When they make moves its to get better . They dont pick up Kaberle`s in stupid trades , dont throw away talent like we do , and when it doesnt look right ,
They fix it , but it starts with drafting wisely and no one has done a better job of finding gems than them
They dont take a kid and bury him on the fourth line , then dump him
THERE ISNT A HOPE IN HELL OUR RETARDS WOULD OF PULLED OFF THE CARTER/RICHARD TRADES .
they capitalized on 2 assets who got them as far as they can go , and both will never score the points they did before and socred the moon in return
congrats Holmgren ... too bad you arent our Gm
How is picking up Meszaros any better than the Kaberle trade? At least Kaberle at some point was worth(more than) 4 mil, Meszaros never was.
I like some of what Phillie has done but if they are that great why have they NOT won a cup in 30 years?
Well first of all. Patrice bergeron is 6'2 and the rest are 6'0.
Second, yes staal could be our couturier but tomas plekanec is not claude giroux. DD is not briere. paccioretty and cole probabley equal hartnell and simonds, but we still need more. We're missing alot on this team. I know we have a alot as well, but we're missing alot. this years draft will help that. I'm hoping for a guy like thomas wilson as well as grigs or forsberg. I still believe we need a true number 1 center though. I really don't know if grigs will be that or not.
I don't care what Bergeron is listed at he isn't 6'2", he plays a lot smaller than Plekanec who is 5'11". He is a smart player but nobody will ever confuse him with Brian Boyle.
What is the Philly model ? Drafting so well you can trade two stars in the league for top prospects because you already have the next NHL superstar in your roster ? All that without developping a good goalie for decades ? Basically, they have a GM with vision.
What is the Philly model ? Drafting so well you can trade two stars in the league for top prospects because you already have the next NHL superstar in your roster ? All that without developping a good goalie for decades ? Basically, they have a GM with vision.
what happened to goaltending in his vision?
don't forget that they raided the cupboards of picks and young players to build that team(for Pronger hartnell Timonen).
4 years ago : Wings model
3 years ago : Pens model
2 years ago : Hawks model
last year : Bruins model
this year : Flyers model
next year ? ? ?
Agree 100% with this, the habs have to stop trying to emulate other teams. None of the teams mentioned above tried to copy other teams, they just built the team with the best players.
You have to trade top talent to get good assets they had the balls to do it, its not by trading guys like spacek, gill that you're gonna get good stuff.
Put Price on the block and you will get good stuff in return ,a good team with an average goalie will go further than an average team with good goaltending
You're right and you're wrong. We should've been making bigger moves for sure and we've diddled around with silly trades (and bad returns on the bigger ones.) AK and Cammy... just disgraceful returns on those guys.
Trading Price though? No. I'll keep my 25 year old franchise goalie, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by domdo345
You know what guys? Their GM had the guts to trade Richards AND Carter because he felt he couldn't win with their current line-up. Same situation with Plekanec. The guy is a class act but we won't win with him. He's worth a good first rounder, build with that.
That's right. I didn't agree with all their moves but they let two guys who they felt they weren't going to win with walk and got elite young talent. That's what I've wanted us to do for years. Getting Bryz though? Not a great move in my opinion but whatever...
Meanwhile we've spun our wheels and allowed assets to walk for nothing. In that time we've wasted good years from Plekanec who will never win with us. And now we're starting to waste Price's prime years.
We're like the high school kid who's parents didn't get him braces back when they should've in grade 3. Our teeth are healthy and in good shape but they're out of place and look weird.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu
I don't think it's quite the same situation. I think if you asked the Flyers brass, they would have said adamantly that they considered Giroux their best centre moving forward. So they got rid of expensive quality veteran "depth" and kept the best one, whereas if Montreal traded Plekanec they'd be dealing their best one to keep affordable young "depth". May seem like a small difference to some, but it changes everything as far as I'm concerned. It'd be the difference between asking your best to carry the load while the promising youth fills in the depth, and asking your promising youth to carry the load while having no coherent plan (bandaid vet/AHL call-up merry-go-round) for filling in the depth.
DD can handle the 1st line job for now. Eller can handle 2nd line duty for now.
Pleks should've been dealt back when his value was higher. He still has some good value now though and we should exploit it. We should've done the same thing with Markov (though everyone freaked on me for saying so.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by The n00b King
So basically, bad D and bad goaltending is the way to go?
Riiiiight.
If Pittsburgh had an inkling of how to play D (or if their goalies weren't wildly unpredictable), they'd make a series of this.
POs games shouldn't have games with combined scores of 10+ goals. That's just terrible.
To be fair to Philly though, they're missing their best defenseman in Chris Pronger who is one of the very best in the league. He's usually on the ice for half the game and makes a huge difference. That guy is actually BETTER in the playoffs than he is in the regular season.
In just to say that I agree with the "you don't have to have big centers to win" thing
I like our centers. They're only going to get better (and Pleks just needs some linemates).
The Flyers have size on the wings and although we don't have any big and FAST wingers (I really don't notice Bourque's supposed jets), maybe that's somewhere to look at. Then again, I'm fine with the DD line and Pleks+Gio. Our third line is gritty enough once Moen plays (re-sign plz).
How much are Fleury and Bryzgalov getting paid vs Price? Imagine if he let in 5 goals or 8! Bryzgalov has even been making some big saves in the process. Just saying, we get way too caught up in every goal Price lets in, he's such a steal.
As for Fleury winning a cup, pffft, he sucks, always has sucked, always will suck. Also imagine Luongo in his hometown. He'd get eaten alive. I think Canuck fans should chance the loo to boo. Makes a bunch of good saves and then wilts, every time and that's behind a pretty highly rated defense. I remember his god awful game 7 performance, specially that SH breakaway by bergeron where he gave up on it so easily. Just sayin, be glad we have Price, he'll win us a championship.
Edit: Following probably belongs in the Out of Town thread, sry
As for the Vancouver hate, I personally don't hate them that much, but LA has really impressed me in this duel of the runner ups from 93 and 94. It is plainly obvious that without Daniel Sedin, this team is not very good at scoring at will or even at all. Other things to dislike about Vancouver
- green men...they're getting old and not that funny. If I were an opponent, I would have a sign on the bench that I could take with me to the penalty box and tape up on the glass that said "green men suck" or something like that. Ultimate trollage and IMO doable. Get a fine at most.
- Hughson calling everyone by their first name. WTF is that! Sedins fine, but Alexander (Edler), Alain (Vigneault)??? It's just too homery.
I'm fine with Burrows and Lappy, they're good players (although Laps did dive pretty egregiously last game). I liked the profile they did on Burrows...probably just cuz he said he grew up a Habs fan. Canucks have 3 Montrealers and 2 former Habs.
Agreed.....100 %.....GM....Scouting.....everything....not to mention all of those french players and QMJHL players. Look at the scoresheet today......Giroux, Couturier, Briere, Talbot, Voracek.....who says it's an inferior league. I say BS to that!!
Well, it is an inferior league, the facts prove that. But there still are elite players to be found and the very fact that it is an inferior league makes it potentially valuable in a weird way.
I mean, if the perception league wide is that the Q is an inferior league, they will tend to underscout it. That makes it an edge to the few teams that decide NOT to underscout it and thus are in good position to grab gems deep in the draft.
And last I checked, the Habs were barely scouting the Q. One part time scout, am I right? If so, that's ridiculous. It's our backyard. How expensive could it be to have two full time scouts?
if we draft Grigs or Galy lets say , they should be centering the top line
Do you mean next year?!
The average 3rd pick does not even play in the league on his first year, much less center the first line.
Guys like RNH or Sid are NOT The standard top 5 pick. I hope to best of Forsberg/grigo/galy over the next 15 years, but I don't even expect them to be in the NHL next year. Let's not treat the next pick as if was Lafleur.
Or you know what, do treat him like Lafleur. Lafleur started playing in the NHL at 20 and became dominant at 24. Max Pac has just posted better numbers as a 22-23 year old than Lafleur did at the same age! But we all know how dominant he became afterward. So basically; patience. None of that crap about expecting an 18 year old to center our first line on his first year.
We need to build from the draft. Can Grigorenko be as good as Giroux? Or Galchenyuk as good as Toews? I don't know that answer, but that's what we need them to become if we draft one of them. I think we have some interesting up and coming prospects like Gallgher, Leblanc and Kristo up front and Tinordi and Beaulieu on D, but we need to keep building.
We have our goalkeeper in Price. Watching these playoffs and other team's D has made me appreciate Subban so much more. We CAN NOT trade him. What he brings in skating, puck movement and physical play is absolutely unique.
Pacioretty is a great player too. We have a long way to go to add the depth that we need to compete with the Flyers, Pens, & Bruins.
Hopefully, our next GM is a smart guy and will work to help us get there, and not just give us more of the same.
I can't believe Couturier went 8th. Winnipeg must be kicking themselves that they went with Schiefele over Couturier.
The Philly model works only if you have an excellent scouting department to properly judge prospects to replace your current starters. But it is effective.
So, we should start improving our scouting department.
Holmgren has a vision and balls to go along with it.
Then you have a guy like Bobby Clarke involved as senior vice president and executives to fill the operational voids to go with it, two assistant GM's...a solid group of people, not just the GM.
Ummmm no. We need to improve our offense, plus we have price in nets so we dont need a really super D but we need a more physical/tough d. If someone touches price that player will pay for it
What you said and what I highlighted is the Gauthier Model.
And we are living the results of the Gauthier Model........watching other teams play for the Stanley Cup.
Our D needs to get bigger and stronger and it needs to be "really super".
It doesn't matter if its the centers or wingers who are big but I think it makes a lot of sense to have balanced size on the lines in your top 6. If you've got a small guy like say DD... it makes a lot of sense to flank him with bigger wingers like we've done.
Exactly. Cole and Pacioretty made DD look big by giving him all kinds of room. This is why I laugh when people would are obsessed with getting a big centre in the draft. A big winger like Forsberg would give any centre all kinds of space on the ice.
Holmgren has a vision and balls to go along with it.
Then you have a guy like Bobby Clarke involved as senior vice president and executives to fill the operational voids to go with it, two assistant GM's...a solid group of people, not just the GM.
Where the Habs suppose to get their Giroux type from? He's one of the best centers in the game, our centers couldn't carry his jock strap. Briere is one of playoffs leading point getters since the lockout.
The average 3rd pick does not even play in the league on his first year, much less center the first line.
Guys like RNH or Sid are NOT The standard top 5 pick. I hope to best of Forsberg/grigo/galy over the next 15 years, but I don't even expect them to be in the NHL next year. Let's not treat the next pick as if was Lafleur.
Or you know what, do treat him like Lafleur. Lafleur started playing in the NHL at 20 and became dominant at 24. Max Pac has just posted better numbers as a 22-23 year old than Lafleur did at the same age! But we all know how dominant he became afterward. So basically; patience. None of that crap about expecting an 18 year old to center our first line on his first year.
I mean dont draft Grigs and play him with Blunden for 8 minutes a night
like Louis Leblanc and then we say he is s h i t
RNH ...from early on was thier #1 center
is Grigs going to we any worse than the midget who leetched of Max and Cole
somewhere, or are you being serious?
