This may sound stupid but the notion of the past 15years is that most superstar players are now european, so maybe the name Giroux doesn't strike as much as Malkin, Ovechkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Jagr... But there is no reason not to call this guy a superstar his stats clearly point out to that direction and his talent too.
I was going off the worst case scenario (from the Caps/Ovie fan point of view). Without doing any calculations beforehand I though it was probably slightly hyperbole but certainly close enough not to dismiss. Now let's consider how these playoffs could conceivably turn out for Giroux and Ovechkin:
As of now, Giroux has 44 pts in 42 games. If the Flyers reach the finals Giroux has, say, 20 games left and scores 32 points in them (32 in 20 isn't totally unheard of, but 38 in 22 would join Giroux to the company of Gretzky and Mario, so admittedly that's borderline). That'd make his career total 76 points in 62 games ie. 1.226 points per game.
As for Ovechkin, we all know he's not the same player he was 2-3 years ago. He had solid playoffs last year but now he's 0+0 after the first game, had only one SOG and he faces the reigning Vezina and Conn Smythe winner in Tim Thomas. I hope Ovie scores as much as he can but it's not impossible that the worst case scenario happens and Boston sweeps the Caps in four and Ovie doesn't get a single point. That'd make his career playoff totals 50 points in 41 games ie. 1.220 points per game. There you go, it is "remotely close" at worst.
Congratulations, you just discussed a scenario where Giroux puts up the 5th most points in playoff history (and the most from someone not named Gretzky or Lemieux) while Ovechkin simultaneously puts up literally nothing.
Stamkos is one because 60 goal scorers don't grow on trees. He also has two Rockets under his belt. Could have easily been three had it not been for his late season collapse last year.
Datsyuk has multiple Stanley Cups and is widely considered one of the best defensive forwards. A few Selke to his name and can't deny the wow factor of his game.
Crosby is Crosby. Most popular player in the game. That kid is top 5 playmaker and goal scorer.
Malkin had an unreal playoffs performance, a Stanley Cup and a few other awards I won't bother listing.
Ovechkin has multiple goal scoring titles. Most popular player after Crosby. Team won the President's trophy and he's been a phenomenal playoffs performer.
Hell, I wouldn't even consider Datsyuk a superstar and Ovechkin this season definitely hasn't been one. Remind me exactly, why should we consider Giroux a superstar? Because of a 6pts game? No, he's very good and a top 5 forward but he hasn't done anything to warrant the superstar label. If the Flyers win the cup this year or if he gets a Conn Smythe, sure. So far, no.
Giroux is definitely one of my favourite players in the NHL right now, it's an absolute pleasure to watch him play.
I bet the Flyers management are absolutely delighted to have him locked up at 3,75M for a further 2 seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonator
It still amazes me many teams passed on him...especially the Habs....he was playing in their province....and he is French...I can't understand how they missed him???
Becomes even more difficult to understand when you realise they picked David Fischer ahead of him.
I still think that Giroux is half a tier below guys like Malkin, Ovechkin, and Stamkos offensively. Not a lot behind, but just a little. (A note, though, has anyone broken down playoff PPG / M? Even setting aside PP time, I'm pretty sure Giroux has played at least 5 minutes less a game than OV / Malkin).
On the other hand, I'll take his compete / grit over them (less so than Stamkos, who's backchecking is, I think, generally overlooked).
In my opinion, Crosby is the only forwards in the game who are clearly a cut above Giroux when it comes to all around play. Datsyuk too, perhaps, but given age and progression, I'd take G.
76 points isn't anywhere close to "superstar". That's more like "1st line forward".
Many people who watched him closely from day one knew he was going to be a star in his 47-point season, myself included. Less stat watching, more Giroux watching.
Giroux plays with Hartnell or Jagr (and other skilled and talented players)
Agree he's not Crosby, but don't try to add punch to your argument by saying he gets to play with Hartnell and Jagr. Hartnell's stats from the past four years:
2007-2008 80 24 19 43
2008-2009 82 30 30 60
2009-2010 81 14 30 44
2010-2011 82 24 25 49
As for this year, to compare apples to apples, these three players had pro-rated (82 games) totals of:
Giroux: 99
Hartnell: 67
Jagr: 61
He would have had more than 30 points more than Hartnell and nearly 40 more than Jagr. Keep in mind Hartnell's last two seasons got him 44 and 49 points (full seasons). So yeah, Giroux plays with these guys, but while they are good complementary players, reality is that he's the reason they had such good years, not the other way around.
Many people who watched him closely from day one knew he was going to be a star in his 47-point season, myself included. Less stat watching, more Giroux watching.
A great many Flyers fans knew after watching the 09 first round loss to the Pens. G, a rookie who only played half a season, was the best forward on the ice for the Flyers going away. Mind you, this was on a team that was already flush with talented forwards.
A lot of us thought he was going to take the mantle of the Flyers best player the next season. In reality it took another year. And then this season he's knocked the doors off the hinges.
76 points isn't anywhere close to "superstar". That's more like "1st line forward".
Well, he wasn't the 1C, so I guess it's just *a bit* impressive, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9
After I watched those 4 HBO episodes I'm not surprised.
I'm pretty surprised anyone would be able to make a determination about Giroux's attitude from 24/7, where they showed him individually for a grand total of what, 2 minutes? Was it the sequence where he wasn't warm and cheering after suffering a concussion that set you off or the Steve Ott face off comments that always get attributed to Giroux?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acallabeth
Is Franzen a borderline superstar?
If anything, Franzen underachieves during the regular season and historically has trouble staying healthy. Come playoff time, I don't think anyone would question how dangerous he is.
If he goes head to head with sid and malkin and is better than both this round - as he has been so far - we're going to have to seriously start considering him on that level. Malkin had a beast regular season and we all know what he can do, but Giroux has future Art Ross/Conn Smythe written all over him, doesn't he?
One thing that I think sets him apart is how well he plays matched up against Chara. I'm not sure I've seen anybody else look good against Chara in the past few years.
can't believe I used to watch this guy when he played on my cousins team(cumberland barons). it was obvious even then he was going to be great. my dad called him making the show when Claude was 14. ottawa boy
Stamkos is one because 60 goal scorers don't grow on trees. He also has two Rockets under his belt. Could have easily been three had it not been for his late season collapse last year.
Datsyuk has multiple Stanley Cups and is widely considered one of the best defensive forwards. A few Selke to his name and can't deny the wow factor of his game.
Crosby is Crosby. Most popular player in the game. That kid is top 5 playmaker and goal scorer.
Malkin had an unreal playoffs performance, a Stanley Cup and a few other awards I won't bother listing.
Ovechkin has multiple goal scoring titles. Most popular player after Crosby. Team won the President's trophy and he's been a phenomenal playoffs performer.
Hell, I wouldn't even consider Datsyuk a superstar and Ovechkin this season definitely hasn't been one. Remind me exactly, why should we consider Giroux a superstar? Because of a 6pts game? No, he's very good and a top 5 forward but he hasn't done anything to warrant the superstar label. If the Flyers win the cup this year or if he gets a Conn Smythe, sure. So far, no.
So maybe we should say he is a "budding superstar" instead. We have all seen his growth. He has increased his points from 47 to 76 to 93...and has 44 points in 42 playoff games so he doesn't disappear either when it counts. ANd he did have the highest selling jersey this year in the NHL so he must be a lil popular too
