I agree with the idea that if both franchises would do the trade again 15 years later, it's a win win trade. I'm sure just about every Stars/ Flames fan would do the Nieuwendyk/Iginla trade every time.
I think the Kessel trade might turn out to be win-win. It's tough to say. Certainly Seguin looks to be the real deal. So really the scale tips on how Dougie Hamilton does in the future. But I think people's criticisms with that are more the circumstances of when it was made - the Kessel trade was not by itself going to make them a playoff club. In contrast, the Bruins don't get much flak for trading essentially two first round picks for the underwhelming Tomas Kaberle. But obviously they won the Cup, and they were in a position where disposing of these potential future assets was not a huge loss.
Nieuwendyk-Iginla is probably the best example of a win-win trade. More recently Heatley for Hossa was a good one, too.
I think the Kessel trade might turn out to be win-win. It's tough to say. Certainly Seguin looks to be the real deal. So really the scale tips on how Dougie Hamilton does in the future. But I think people's criticisms with that are more the circumstances of when it was made - the Kessel trade was not by itself going to make them a playoff club. In contrast, the Bruins don't get much flak for trading essentially two first round picks for the underwhelming Tomas Kaberle. But obviously they won the Cup, and they were in a position where disposing of these potential future assets was not a huge loss.
Nieuwendyk-Iginla is probably the best example of a win-win trade. More recently Heatley for Hossa was a good one, too.
Holy ****! I just realized Kessel and Kaberle were dealt for the same predetermined value! If the Leafs weren't a lottery team, those trades would have been equal to each other.
Holy ****! I just realized Kessel and Kaberle were dealt for the same predetermined value! If the Leafs weren't a lottery team, those trades would have been equal to each other.
Actually...I'm pretty sure Kaberle for Kessel was discussed that year and fell apart overr whether the Leafs would include their 7th overall pick which turned out to be Kadri. That probably would have been a pretty fair trade.
People are also assuming that having Kessel for the short term (and long term, but that's another matter) if of no value to a rebuilding team.
It's very likely that
a) Matt Stajan slumps in the last year of his contract with no one to play with, and gets dumped for a 3rd rounder instead of being a part of the Phaneuf trade.
b) Tyler Bozak doesn't stick in the NHL.
c) assuming Burke still makes the Lupul trade, Lupul plays with 18-year old Seguin and Kris Versteeg, and doesn't turn into the player we currently have.
Kessel's contributions don't suddenly become valuable when the Leafs are contenders.
Actually Minnesota benefited from getting Heatley.
Ottawa fans are just bitter.
Yea Murray should have never picked Clouston over Heatley. I said it at the time. Look at what happened once they got rid of Clouston, he was the real problem in Ottawa. Ottawa fans are too close to see that though.
Yea Murray should have never picked Clouston over Heatley. I said it at the time. Look at what happened once they got rid of Clouston, he was the real problem in Ottawa. Ottawa fans are too close to see that though.
But looked what happened to Heatley afterwards. He got to play with Jumbo Joe, arguably one of the best passers in the game. And he didn't do so well. Ottawa got Michalek, who is younger, faster, grittier, and currently out produces Heatley.
They guy wasn't wrong every Heatley trade has been win-win at the time.
Heatley - Hossa. Ottawa got the best line of arguably the past decade. Got a SCF appearence. Atlanta got a franchise caliber player that was dominate, and got "rid" of a player with a negative past in the area who wanted out.
Heatley - Cheechoo, Michalek, 2nd. San Jose got a big time player looking for a way out of Ottawa to hopefully push them deeper into the playoffs. Ottawa got a young great player in Michalek, a possible comeback player (that failed) in Cheechoo, and a 2nd rounder.
Heatley-Havlat. San Jose got more of a shifty player, fast, hard working player with talent. Minnesota got a sniper, with some defensive ability.
None of these deals are one sided. They are all win-win. Some people took it as an insult the "Whenever Heatley has been traded" but in all honesty, they all have been fairly fair win win deals.
Personally I think the Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd can be a win win. Ottawa gets a 2nd line center,that is young. Phoenix gets rid of a distraction, gets a potential Dynomite offensive defencemen and a draft pick.
If seguin played in the leafs system and Kessel played in the Bruins system they would probably have the same points this year. Kessel got way more ice time and had zero defensive responsibility to worry about.
If seguin played in the leafs system and Kessel played in the Bruins system they would probably have the same points this year. Kessel got way more ice time and had zero defensive responsibility to worry about.
When Kessel played for the Bruins he put up 60pts in 70gms (36 goals) and was PPG in the playoffs. Seguin has managed this year a slightly lower PPG but much lower GPG average than Kessel put up in the Bruins system, and I think it can definitely be argued that the Bruins of today have a much stronger supporting cast than the version that featured Kessel (although, to the credit that team had Savard).
This subject came up recently here when the consensus was Anaheim was a winner along with Toronto in the Beauchemin for Gardiner/Lupul trade.
Of course Toronto is viewed as making one of the worst trades in history, yet they did get a 21 year-old star player back in the deal (not need to mention which one, people know). As well at age 24 he just got 37 goals, 82 points.
So what is the criteria for a trade to be a "Win-Win"?
*note: Not making personal opinions on either of those trades I mentioned, just curious on why one is a win trade and one is an epic disaster*
One of the worst trades in history? Seriously? I can understand people believing Boston won the trade, but how can you think that is anywhere close to the worst trade in history? The Leafs have a 24 year old star who scored over a PPG this year and now has 4 consecutive 30 goal seasons...
I also don't see how anyone thinks the Beauchemin trade was win-win... Toronto won that by a mile. They got a 21 stud on defence and a PPG player in Lupul out of it
One of the worst trades in history? Seriously? I can understand people believing Boston won the trade, but how can you think that is anywhere close to the worst trade in history? The Leafs have a 24 year old star who scored over a PPG this year and now has 4 consecutive 30 goal seasons...
I also don't see how anyone thinks the Beauchemin trade was win-win... Toronto won that by a mile. They got a 21 stud on defence and a PPG player in Lupul out of it
I believe the "worst trade in history" comment was a tongue in cheek remark.
When one player (Nieuwendyk) is a pivotal member of a Stanley Cup win, while the other (Iginla) becomes the cornerstone of his team for years.
That's win-win.
So I wonder how long it took for this trade to go from the Stars fleecing the Flames, to a win-win. Iginla was a good prospect at the time, but this must have looked pretty lopsided at first.
I also wonder if the Oilers trading Pronger to Anaheim will be looked at like a win-win if Eberle and Smid hit their potential. Its not at that point yet, but if the young Oiler players continue to improve and become cornerstones on the O and D, it could be the same situation as above.
Whoa. We went from obscurity to a regular playoff contendor and got to the scf in 97 on the back of lindros meanwhile he is still the best skater to ever lace them up in philly and gave us just short of a decade of great hockey and highlights. I know we didn't win it all and understand why you said what you said but the flyers would never have been able to pry Roy out of Mon for he same package he was had for and we didn't have a Sackic for forsberg either. So who knows what would of happened if we didn't make that deal. I know I'm happy with it.
Most recent would be the Leafs and Tampa Bay swapping Keith Aulie for Carter Ashton. It met both teams needs, but we will have to see how either player develops to see if this was a win-win trade.
In most cases win-win trades fills holes for either team like the one above where there is a hole on forward and the other on defense swapping to fill the needs of the team. The Calgary/Dallas trade is perfect when a team is retooling/rebuilding and trading away to a contender to compete for the Cup. Iginla could be the next Joe Nieuwendyk and the Flames can get their prospect that can become Iginla v2.0 if the Calgary ownership gets their head out of the sand to make a deal.
