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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 10.0

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Old
04-16-2012, 12:50 PM
  #301
Erik Estrada
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The usual suspects (/Button)

3.Forsberg
5.Galchenyuk




12.Murray
14.Grigorenko


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Old
04-16-2012, 12:53 PM
  #302
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While not drafted, you can bet your ass that Timmin's was a big reason we picked up Desharnais.

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04-16-2012, 12:55 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Maitz View Post
Button is an ***

Murray at 12 is ridiculous, I wouldnt be surprise if grigo falls that far thought..

Subban at # 10 , Lindholm at #9 , Trouba #13, Gaunce #26, Koekkoek even not in the first round is a complete joke, worst mock draft I've seen from the last couple of weeks
I wouldn't be so shocked that Lindholm goes top 12 at this point.

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04-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
While not drafted, you can bet your ass that Timmin's was a big reason we picked up Desharnais.
Actually, this was pretty much Carbo. He owned the team Desharnais played for and told the organization to go look at this kid. Of course, Timmins had to scout him and believe in him enough to convince Bob to give him a contract. It was still at Carbo's suggestion.

I say this as a hater of Carbo.

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Old
04-16-2012, 12:59 PM
  #305
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Button's ranking isn't his anticipated draft order. His ranking is based on what he feels is their long-term potential, i.e. Murray may get drafted 2nd by Columbus because he's the most NHL ready defenseman, but Dumba, even if he takes longer to develop, long-term is a #2, while Murray is more of a Phillips type who he ranks around a #12 long term. It makes sense to me.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:03 PM
  #306
Erik Estrada
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Top 8 Ds in Button's list:

1. Dumba
2. Rielly
3. Reinhart
4. Finn
5. Lindholm
6. Ceci
7. Murray
8. Trouba

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:05 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Halakalakaboom View Post
Fair enough, good summary.

For Ds I'd be okay if our inept GM kept McDo. Now we need another one.

For forwards it's atrocious. Our GM kept having to trade, sign overpaid UFAs to fill the holes on our entire lineup. Half of these players are bottom 6 material. Max Pacioretty, the only talent we drafted that ended up being a 1st line winger.

I'm sad these days. My posts are a direct reaction caused by the Claude Giroux interview where he says he always dreamed to be a Habs. And we passed on this guy. I'm sorry I don't want to piss people off, we all had an awful season as Habs fans.

I'll just say that, personnaly, I question Timmins competence in evaluating top talent potential.
Angelo Esposito likely had the same dream. Giroux was a miss and it happens, but we got subban in 2nd round. This isn't 1984 or something. The video and analytics and technology involved and people missed him. It says something. It also says something we missed giroux, but you can't win them all.

I think what it comes down to is, is Timmins perfect? No. Neither is detroit's director euro scouting hakan andersson. Yes, the same guy who drafted Datysuk:

Quote:
It was through happenstance that Andersson discovered first Pavel Datsyuk and then Henrik Zetterberg. In 1997 he went to Moscow to scout Dmitri Kalinin, noticed Datsyuk playing for the other team, and decided he needed to see more of Datsyuk. He made the trip a second time and would have come again, but the flight he and a scout from the St. Louis Blues were on was cancelled due to a storm. The Wings drafted Datsyuk 171st overall in the 1998 NHL Entry Draft and Andersson believes he was the only NHL scout to have seen Datsyuk play prior to the draft.
He's praised often, despite the wings not having a great scouting. In fact, the last #1 D they drafted is Nick Lidstrom. You can make a case for Kronwall being a top pairing d-man but that's it.

In fact, from 2003-2009 the wings got:

Defensemen:

Quincey
Kindl
Smith

Forwards:

Franzen
Helm
Abdelkader
Matthias
Emmerton

Goalies:
Howard

If we want, i can include guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Mattias Ritola, etc... but that's like me including engqvist, dumont, st denis, etc...

In this entire time, the great euro scout has selected 1 full time euro player. Johan Franzen.

The reality is, Timmins has done his job well(Look at the comparison above). MOST will say there's space for improvement but he's record is extraordinary. I feel very comfortable with him in charge.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #308
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Murray has better chance of going #1 than he does of falling out of the top 10. Here's an article describing why: http://amateurscouts.blogspot.ca/201...it-threat.html

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:08 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Actually, this was pretty much Carbo. He owned the team Desharnais played for and told the organization to go look at this kid. Of course, Timmins had to scout him and believe in him enough to convince Bob to give him a contract. It was still at Carbo's suggestion.

I say this as a hater of Carbo.
Desharnais was actually given a contract by the NYI first. He played 7 Games on what I assume was a ATO for Bridgeport of the AHL. I guess they didn't feel he was an NHL caliber player and montreal got him and developed him.

I'm still looking for the threads on the islanders that they lost (at the very worst) a top 9 forward and likely top 6 center. Hmm, no where.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:14 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Desharnais was actually given a contract by the NYI first. He played 7 Games on what I assume was a ATO for Bridgeport of the AHL. I guess they didn't feel he was an NHL caliber player and montreal got him and developed him.

I'm still looking for the threads on the islanders that they lost (at the very worst) a top 9 forward and likely top 6 center. Hmm, no where.
no because you see, only the canadiens miss out on good players

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:17 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
The Flyers have a good development program. I have no idea how this relates to Timmins tough.
I agree that Timmins has been very good at drafting. BUT...

Trevor Timmins

Position: DIRECTOR OF PROCUREMENT AND PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

Trevor Timmins enters his 11th season with the Montreal Canadiens. He is primarily responsible for overseeing and directing the Canadiens’ amateur scouting system, including the annual NHL Entry Draft and amateur free-agent recruitment.

In addition, Timmins is responsible for both of the club’s summer development and rookie camps. He also oversees the development of the Canadiens prospects in Hamilton and the club’s amateur prospects.


Sooooo...

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
I agree that Timmins has been very good at drafting. BUT...

Trevor Timmins

Position: DIRECTOR OF PROCUREMENT AND PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

Trevor Timmins enters his 11th season with the Montreal Canadiens. He is primarily responsible for overseeing and directing the Canadiens’ amateur scouting system, including the annual NHL Entry Draft and amateur free-agent recruitment.

In addition, Timmins is responsible for both of the club’s summer development and rookie camps. He also oversees the development of the Canadiens prospects in Hamilton and the club’s amateur prospects.


Sooooo...
Okay and, Sergei, D'agostini, Weber, etc... all looked good in hamilton. Seems like the problem is when they reach the NHL. Hmm, isn't that why we switched management? Even at the AHL level I question how much input Timmins has. There's a paid by the organization coach already.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
I agree that Timmins has been very good at drafting. BUT...

Trevor Timmins

Position: DIRECTOR OF PROCUREMENT AND PLAYER DEVELOPMENT

Trevor Timmins enters his 11th season with the Montreal Canadiens. He is primarily responsible for overseeing and directing the Canadiens’ amateur scouting system, including the annual NHL Entry Draft and amateur free-agent recruitment.

In addition, Timmins is responsible for both of the club’s summer development and rookie camps. He also oversees the development of the Canadiens prospects in Hamilton and the club’s amateur prospects.


Sooooo...
Our prospects have done fine before they've reached the big club. It's when they're in Montreal that they fail.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:39 PM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Actually, this was pretty much Carbo. He owned the team Desharnais played for and told the organization to go look at this kid. Of course, Timmins had to scout him and believe in him enough to convince Bob to give him a contract. It was still at Carbo's suggestion.

I say this as a hater of Carbo.
I heard many times on RDS that Carbo was the one making the push for Desharnais, but he doesn't like taking the credit 'cause he says that it was a group effort.

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04-16-2012, 01:44 PM
  #315
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I heard many times on RDS that Carbo was the one making the push for Desharnais, but he doesn't like taking the credit 'cause he says that it was a group effort.
That's because Carbo is classy. It probably was a group effort. There's still evaluations, development and all that involved in the process but pushing for the kid is obviously a big piece.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:49 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Actually, this was pretty much Carbo. He owned the team Desharnais played for and told the organization to go look at this kid. Of course, Timmins had to scout him and believe in him enough to convince Bob to give him a contract. It was still at Carbo's suggestion.

I say this as a hater of Carbo.
Fair enough, forgot that he played for Carbo's team.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:55 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
While not drafted, you can bet your ass that Timmin's was a big reason we picked up Desharnais.
I'm sure Timmins had a say even though it was Carbo that first pushed for him to get a tryout, but one of his better additions was getting Guy Boucher, it's just too bad that it didn't work out, had Boucher of stayed in Hamilton it would be very intersting to see how it would have played out.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:14 PM
  #318
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Craig Button should be fired.

What a joke.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:31 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Craig Button should be fired.

What a joke.
really, why for offering an opinion

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:33 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Craig Button should be fired.

What a joke.
To be fair, does the draft end up as:

#1 best career
#2 2nd best career
#3 3rd best career

etc...

Sometimes 21st is better than 14th or whatever. He has an opinion, which may end up less or more valid than the current one.

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04-16-2012, 02:38 PM
  #321
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I like the fact that Button has Grigorenko as low as 14, might not go this low but I would totally not be surprised if he would go around 9-10. On the other hand Murray there`s no doubt he goes top 5.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:51 PM
  #322
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If we don't get Galchenyuk, Koekkoek and Samuelsson with our first three picks I am holding Button accountable.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:55 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Craig Button should be fired.

What a joke.
To be fair, Timmins' list will also be much different than the "consensus"...

For instance, in 2009, Nazem Kadri was around 18th overall on our list, in the "acceptable" list. But that year, Kadri was a consensus top 10 pick...

Or take Ryan McDonagh, he was 3rd on our list...

So maybe you don't agree with his list...I know I don't on many players, but the fact is chances are that he's gonna be right on many players (not draft order, because it's not a mock draft, but on how those players pan out)

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04-16-2012, 03:09 PM
  #324
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in terms of what to do at #3...

I hope we keep the phones open and take all bidds right up until we walk up to the podium.

with the tight bunch of prospects after first overall, it's not unlikely that some team picking in the top 10 will get overly bullish on someone and be willing to pay a ransom to secure him.

if we could walk out of the first round with a top 10 pick and two quality assets (another 1st, quality prospect, quality young NHLer), I'd be just as happy as landing any 1 of the prospects that will be there for us at 3rd.

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Old
04-16-2012, 03:14 PM
  #325
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I don't see Reinhart or Finn being better than half the people they are listed ahead of.

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