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Unofficial Rumor/Proposal Thread. Offseason Recon Part 3

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Old
04-23-2012, 01:32 AM
  #901
Koto
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Eric Belanger

55.3% in faceoffs (16th in league)
50 takeaways (2nd on the Oilers)
38 giveaways (12th on the Oilers)
41 blocked shots (4th among Oilers forwards)
4.83 power play goals against per 60 minutes of shorthanded ice time (2nd best on Oilers behind Jones - his PK partner)

I can't believe that so many people want to trade this guy. He was disappointing offensively but I could really care less since he is a bottom six player. He was one of our best players defensively and the main reason our penalty kill improved so much.
I tend to agree with this, just keep him on the 4th line and get him the **** away from the power play.

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Old
04-23-2012, 01:44 AM
  #902
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Haunt? lol, you're not looking at the close to $5M on Yashin's, it's less then a $1.5 for a significant chunk of that time, and you've finally freed your team of the player and changed the culture.
jimmi, with respect, by it seems you are completely distracted by Horcoff. there are bigger problems with this team than whether or not they have Horcoff or Stoll. He has a bad contract, but it is not crippling. you may think so.

you are putting to much stock into 'turning page' or any other symbolic gestures.

buying him out is bad business.. unless Katz doesn't care about 10milliion, they are stuck with him.. accept it.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:08 AM
  #903
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I'm a little surprised at the people saying they want Stoll back. This guy had 6 goals this year. He had 2 goals in 2012 in the regular season. People were flipping out about Smyth cooling down during the stretch. I couldn't imagine the hate Stoll would have gotten here.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:15 AM
  #904
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I'm a little surprised at the people saying they want Stoll back. This guy had 6 goals this year. He had 2 goals in 2012 in the regular season. People were flipping out about Smyth cooling down during the stretch. I couldn't imagine the hate Stoll would have gotten here.
He sniped that OT winner today and we all just fell in love with the thought of having his shot back on our PP. Seems like everyone forgot about how frustrating he could be at times

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:50 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Everyone on the Kings struggled offensively this year.
Yeah, they struggled offensively. Their forwards not being very good at scoring was probably a big part of that, wouldn't you think?

I mean, jesus, Ladislav Smid had ONE fewer goal in the exact same number of games. That's how bad Jarrett Stoll's offense was this year.

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Old
04-23-2012, 08:11 AM
  #906
Jimmi Jenkins
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jimmi, with respect, by it seems you are completely distracted by Horcoff. there are bigger problems with this team than whether or not they have Horcoff or Stoll. He has a bad contract, but it is not crippling. you may think so.

you are putting to much stock into 'turning page' or any other symbolic gestures.

buying him out is bad business.. unless Katz doesn't care about 10milliion, they are stuck with him.. accept it.
There aren't bigger problems "ON" the team. There's holes on the team that need to be filled, but there is no bigger problem then Shawn Horcoff. The sooner he's dumped from the team, the soon the team can actually start moving forward.

No buying his out is an option allowed by the CBA, it's bad business to keep running this guy out there and then complaining about the lack of quality vets.

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Old
04-23-2012, 08:48 AM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
There aren't bigger problems "ON" the team. There's holes on the team that need to be filled, but there is no bigger problem then Shawn Horcoff. The sooner he's dumped from the team, the soon the team can actually start moving forward.

No buying his out is an option allowed by the CBA, it's bad business to keep running this guy out there and then complaining about the lack of quality vets.
Uff, I see more holes but maybe I have my sights too high. Horc, Gagner, Smyth... But then again we can't dump these players without bringing in other veteran/experienced players imo.

I want no part of Stoll, he did not perform this year at all and I don't care that he showed up in the playoffs against VAN. He's not a fit at the moment imo. We have others who will be able to play that part better, maybe already next season but most certainly in 13/14, imo.

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Old
04-23-2012, 08:58 AM
  #908
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Uff, I see more holes but maybe I have my sights too high. Horc, Gagner, Smyth... But then again we can't dump these players without bringing in other veteran/experienced players imo.

I want no part of Stoll, he did not perform this year at all and I don't care that he showed up in the playoffs against VAN. He's not a fit at the moment imo. We have others who will be able to play that part better, maybe already next season but most certainly in 13/14, imo.
Yup Stoll had a down year, but he's still a better fit and a better price then Horcoff in the same role.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:21 AM
  #909
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Yup Stoll had a down year, but he's still a better fit and a better price then Horcoff in the same role.
Same could be said about Belanger, while Stoll will cost probably 3M+. Just sayin'.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:30 AM
  #910
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Same could be said about Belanger, while Stoll will cost probably 3M+. Just sayin'.
Ok, just like Belanger did right?

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:47 AM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Yup Stoll had a down year, but he's still a better fit and a better price then Horcoff in the same role.
Ehm, yes, you have a good point there. But I am not sure. Captain's value?

Anyway, I don't want horc here for the 13/14 season. I guess we agree on that.

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Old
04-23-2012, 09:50 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by enthropi View Post
Same could be said about Belanger, while Stoll will cost probably 3M+. Just sayin'.
What is it, Horc about 5 mil right? Belanger 1.5(?). And they are mentioned in the same sentence...............

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:06 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
jimmi, with respect, by it seems you are completely distracted by Horcoff. there are bigger problems with this team than whether or not they have Horcoff or Stoll. He has a bad contract, but it is not crippling. you may think so.

you are putting to much stock into 'turning page' or any other symbolic gestures.

buying him out is bad business.. unless Katz doesn't care about 10milliion, they are stuck with him.. accept it.
I disagree with this completely. The Oilers should be doing everything in their power to remove Horcoff from the team. And just shrugging one shoulders and saying 'we are stuck with him' is unacceptable, even if that ends up being the case they should be making every effort they can to do so.

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Old
04-23-2012, 10:12 AM
  #914
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I disagree with this completely. The Oilers should be doing everything in their power to remove Horcoff from the team. And just shrugging one shoulders and saying 'we are stuck with him' is unacceptable, even if that ends up being the case they should be making every effort they can to do so.
So yakupov and Horcoff for Nash?

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Old
04-23-2012, 11:12 AM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Bangers View Post
Even without an amnesty clause, buying out Horcoff won't kill the team's cap.

Horcoff's cap hit (from buyout) from Capgeek.com:

2012-13: $944,444
2013-14: $2,944,444
2014-15: $3,944,444
2015-16: $1,444,444
2016-17: $1,444,444
2017-18: $1,444,444

Not sure how much his NMC affects this though (the team may not be able to buy him out).

The only year his buyout would REALLY hurt the team is 2014-15, but if Lander can take his role, or the team can sign a veteran 3rd line center for 1-1.5 mil/year, the cap hit works out to being not much more that year that year (and significantly cheaper the other years).

Less than 1.5 million/year for three years isn't a substantial cap hit when you consider the cap hit savings the year the team needs to re-sign Hall, Paajarvi and Eberle.

If the team has to wait a year (until his NMC expires), the cap hit from the buyout is even better:

2013-14: $2,666,667
2014-15: $3,666,667
2015-16: $1,166,667
2016-17: $1,166,667

Personally, I think if the Oilers could buy out Horcoff and sign Chris Kelly, Jay McClement, Jason Arnott (on a short-term contract) or Paul Gaustad (although I think he'll be expensive), the team will be much better for it.
This year he gets another 6mil, but the following year he is paid 4 mil, then 3 mil the last year of his contract. Next summer Horc can provide a list of 10 teams he will accept a trade to.

So we will have Horcoff for 1 more season then our GM will have to find a team that wants to take on a 5.5 mill cap hit for 2 years but only pay out 4 and 3 mil. Sounds possible.

I would prefer to take on 1 more year of Horcoff on the 3rd line and then walk away over a buyout senario that keeps him on the books for 4-5 more years.

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Old
04-23-2012, 11:30 AM
  #916
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It seems SJ fans want Clowe gone.

Could be a win/win if we could grab him at the draft.... Paajarvi and a second?

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Old
04-23-2012, 11:41 AM
  #917
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Belanger may have been a dud offensively this year, but he played the role we brought him in for. Penalty killing, faceoff winning and defensive zone play. In 2010-2011 we all wanted a guy who could play those kinds of situations, contributing offensively would have been a bonus. He's doing fine, keep him around.

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04-23-2012, 11:42 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by dirtysauce View Post
It seems SJ fans want Clowe gone.

Could be a win/win if we could grab him at the draft.... Paajarvi and a second?

Paajarvi AND a 2nd?!?!?!?!?!?!






Paajarvi straight up is an overpayment for Clowe.

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Old
04-23-2012, 11:56 AM
  #919
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It seems SJ fans want Clowe gone.

Could be a win/win if we could grab him at the draft.... Paajarvi and a second?
Maybe there's a reason they want him gone? I mean SJ players don't exactly have a history of performing as well on other teams. Cheechoo, Setoguchi...

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Old
04-23-2012, 12:38 PM
  #920
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Maybe there's a reason they want him gone? I mean SJ players don't exactly have a history of performing as well on other teams. Cheechoo, Setoguchi...
cheechoo yes but setoguchi went to minnesota and got hurt, i would take him here in a second.

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Old
04-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #921
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Belanger may have been a dud offensively this year, but he played the role we brought him in for. Penalty killing, faceoff winning and defensive zone play. In 2010-2011 we all wanted a guy who could play those kinds of situations, contributing offensively would have been a bonus. He's doing fine, keep him around.
Yep. It's amazing how quickly people forget they were begging someone could do exactly what Belanger did and couldn't care less about that persons offensive abilities

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Old
04-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #922
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Belanger may have been a dud offensively this year, but he played the role we brought him in for. Penalty killing, faceoff winning and defensive zone play. In 2010-2011 we all wanted a guy who could play those kinds of situations, contributing offensively would have been a bonus. He's doing fine, keep him around.
Exactly. He is paid like a 4th liner and did his job. The lack of offense sucked and fans have been all over him for that. Then, people go onto say that we should pickup Stoll and dump Horcoff. How little production do you want up the middle?

PRV for Clowe might be interesting, except that Clowe can walk at the end of next season. That would really suck.

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Old
04-23-2012, 12:48 PM
  #923
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cheechoo yes but setoguchi went to minnesota and got hurt, i would take him here in a second.
Cheechoo was a throw in, who's career was done before he even left SJ. I wouldn't put too much stock into it. Not like Michalek didn't have a record year or anything this year either.

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Old
04-23-2012, 01:06 PM
  #924
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Exactly. He is paid like a 4th liner and did his job. The lack of offense sucked and fans have been all over him for that. Then, people go onto say that we should pickup Stoll and dump Horcoff. How little production do you want up the middle?

PRV for Clowe might be interesting, except that Clowe can walk at the end of next season. That would really suck.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.

We're dealing from a position of strength. I would still go for it although the ramifications are pretty unfavourable. We may lose Paajarvi, but it's worth it to assure Clowe, IMO.

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Old
04-23-2012, 02:16 PM
  #925
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Paajarvi AND a 2nd?!?!?!?!?!?!






Paajarvi straight up is an overpayment for Clowe.
It may be worth it though. Clowe will turn 30 just before the start of next season, which means he still likely has 4 or 5 more years of effectiveness in front of him. That's a fairly large window, and Clowe would be a big upgrade over Paajarvi in the top-6 at this point in time. Do the Oilers have enough youth on the wings to sacrifice some future for present? I think they probably do. Plus, having Clowe to learn from may help Hartikainen grow into the role.


Hall-NugeHopk-Eberle
Clowe-Gagner-Yakupov

Now that's a top-6 I can get behind. With Clowe there, Gagner's size might not even be a problem.

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