Enforcing doesn't protect players; it escalates conflicts.
This is the dirty little secret that people who advocating for enforcers/fighting as "players policing the ice themselves" don't want everyone to know. The fact is that all such fans want is more fighting and hiding it under the veil of "protecting players" is just an attempt to spin it into a noble cause. The truth of course is that no player is deterred by the threat of an enforcer/fight because typically fights don't hurt all that much (how often do players come out of fights with actual injuries? very rarely). Even in this case, after this mugging by Carkner, Boyle still played the rest of the game and was fine. Whereas a cheapshot like Hagelin's on Alfredsson took him out of the game and for who knows how long after that.
My bad usually when i see players fight and one guy goes down and starts geting pummelled on the ground the refs step in and stop it. It was apparently an altercation since they gave Dubs the 3rd man in so again the question is how many shots was Carkner going to land before that morons steps in?
Linesmen jump in when they can safely conclude the fight, but if a guy wants to keep throwing them at a guy on the ice, you cant hope for the zebras to save you.
If boyle does what is right and carkner knocks him down i suspect ( although there is no way of knowing but carkner is a pretty stand up guy when it comes to the code) carkner stops throwing them.
The third man in is unfortunate but i have no problem with what carkner did nor dubinsky's response.
You cant just let an opponent take liberties with one of your teamates, you have to get involved even if it means getting the hook. Whats funny is that this applies to both carkner and dubinsky.
As a neutral (or semi-neutral, I don't like the Rangers a bit, and am generally apathetic to the Sens), I must say, I would be proud as heck of Carkner. Went too far, sure. But as a team with stars who are often subject to many liberties, he did what needed to be done to defend their bread winner, and congrats.
Agreed.
I question any Sens fan who thinks Carkner didn't go too far, but that doesn't mean I'm not glad he did it.
It needed to be done. Carkner just didn't waste any time.
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Linesmen jump in when they can safely conclude the fight, but if a guy wants to keep throwing them at a guy on the ice, you cant hope for the zebras to save you.
If boyle does what is right and carkner knocks him down i suspect ( although there is no way of knowing but carkner is a pretty stand up guy when it comes to the code) carkner stops throwing them.
The third man in is unfortunate but i have no problem with what carkner did nor dubinsky's response.
You cant just let an opponent take liberties with one of your teamates, you have to get involved even if it means getting the hook. Whats funny is that this applies to both carkner and dubinsky.
Tell that to every other fight where one guy was down and still getting hit and the refs jumped in. I don't get it it's like you guys are blind or just have never seen fights before.
This is the dirty little secret that people who advocating for enforcers/fighting as "players policing the ice themselves" don't want everyone to know. The fact is that all such fans want is more fighting and hiding it under the veil of "protecting players" is just an attempt to spin it into a noble cause. The truth of course is that no player is deterred by the threat of an enforcer/fight because typically fights don't hurt all that much (how often do players come out of fights with actual injuries? very rarely). Even in this case, after this mugging by Carkner, Boyle still played the rest of the game and was fine. Whereas a cheapshot like Hagelin's on Alfredsson took him out of the game and for who knows how long after that.
Translation : i dont understand the code that 99 % of the players understand, so the obvious conclusion is that they are wrong and i am right.
Im pro fight, not because I ' m a vampire but because the players overwhelmingly want to self police.
But what do they know, they are only the ones that have to face the consequences. As soon as the players say they dont need to self police then I would be fine with that.
Foth the tenth time, if boyle does what is right and accepts carkners invitation to dance then all of this faux outrage ( or expressions of ignorance) dissapears.
LOL wow this is sad....so many babies wanting a bubbah...PLAYOFF HOCKEY.
If you bring the troops to battle then don't cry about the wounded.
Its time to man up.
Playoff Hockey....in it to WIN it.
so many saying past around in the last 2 weeks of the regular seaon now its all Jersey Shore talk and drama but who ever wins the cup will bear the scars and know they have lifted the HARDEST championship to win in sports.
if yah don't like it i am sure you could go watch tennis or maybe lawn bowling.
Not pretty what went down in MSG but to coin a saying."if yah can't take it don't dish it out!"
If it was taboo, wouldn't it not be said 1000 times a day?
Thats what I thought too but apparently you can't say it all of a sudden. SO don't call anyone a homer in this thread even if they are being an enormous homer.
Translation : i dont understand the code that 99 % of the players understand, so the obvious conclusion is that they are wrong and i am right.
Im pro fight, not because I ' m a vampire but because the players overwhelmingly want to self police.
But what do they know, they are only the ones that have to face the consequences. As soon as the players say they dont need to self police then I would be fine with that.
Foth the tenth time, if boyle does what is right and accepts carkners invitation to dance then all of this faux outrage ( or expressions of ignorance) dissapears.
Maybe Carkner should have given Boyle a chance to drop the gloves instead of assaulting him?
LOL wow this is sad....so many babies wanting a bubbah...PLAYOFF HOCKEY.
If you bring the troops to battle then don't cry about the wounded.
Its time to man up.
Playoff Hockey....in it to WIN it.
so many saying past around in the last 2 weeks of the regular seaon now its all Jersey Shore talk and drama but who ever wins the cup will bear the scars and know they have lifted the HARDEST championship to win in sports.
if yah don't like it i am sure you could go watch tennis or maybe lawn bowling.
Not pretty what went down in MSG but to coin a saying."if yah can't take it don't dish it out!"
PLAYOFFS BAYBEEE
Umm you seem to be on another discussion entirely compared to the one we're having in the last few pages here...
Tell that to every other fight where one guy was down and still getting hit and the refs jumped in. I don't get it it's like you guys are blind or just have never seen fights before.
Those are most certainly the linesmen, the ref cant break up fights as they are charged with observing to see if additional transgressions occur.
Linesmen know when to step in and if guys are throwing and even if one guy is taking his lumps the linesmen step in when its safe to stop the fight.
Don't really think the elbow is escalation. I think it was a dumb play where a guy got carried away.
As far as the code or not the code or whatever, in the past, not only would someone take a run at Boyle, but someone would start pummelling Gaborik or something like that with no fear of an instigator. It would get evened up.
I don't particularly want to go back to the golden age of fighting in the NHL, though I do enjoy a good tilt more than most. that said, policing and balancing things out still will happen in the NHL. The problem with modern hockey is the fact that clowns can tee off on the best players without much recourse. Suspensions aren't stiff enough, and fines aren't high enough. That's what is absurd.
Oh and the idea that people "aren't afraid of fighting because they don't get hurt" is stupid. Plenty of players get hurt fighting. If you're a star and you're fighting, you're probably going to get hurt if it's by an enforcer/tough guy. If Carkner or Boyle are going to grab a "star" player and start throwing, they're going to hurt that star player.
Those are most certainly the linesmen, the ref cant break up fights as they are charged with observing to see if additional transgressions occur.
Linesmen know when to step in and if guys are throwing and even if one guy is taking his lumps the linesmen step in when its safe to stop the fight.
OH I knew exactly where you were going with that but you're wrong. Part of the refs job is to ensure player safety and instead he just stood there like a slack jawed idiot doing absolutely nothing and then makes an atrocious 3rd man in call in the PO's when it matters most. Either do your job and break it up or use some g******* discretion. When's the last time someone saw the 3rd man in rule used for its intended purpose? One of the worst rules in hockey because of the way it's written and enforced
Maybe Carkner should have given Boyle a chance to drop the gloves instead of assaulting him?
So when carkner has him pinned on the glass, his face 9 inches from boyle and is talking to him, you think carkner is asking boyle if he saw the hunger games and waht he thought of it ?
Boyle had ample time to drop them, he made the mistake that he beleived that he could decline.
The instigator penalty being the reason teams can't "police things themselves" is a total myth. Players are apparently so afraid of a 2 minute minor penalty for instigating, that they go out and throw cheap shots they know are going to draw 5 minute majors and probably suspensions? Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
So when carkner has him pinned on the glass, his face 9 inches from boyle and is talking to him, you think carkner is asking boyle if he saw the hunger games and waht he thought of it ?
Boyle had ample time to drop them, he made the mistake that he beleived that he could decline.
You do realize that Carkner laid a real good hit on Boyle pinned him and started throwing in the span of about 3 seconds? yes I'm sure it was plenty of time for Boyle to bounce of the boards collect himself and start throwing em back.
OH I knew exactly where you were going with that but you're wrong. Part of the refs job is to ensure player safety and instead he just stood there like a slack jawed idiot doing absolutely nothing and then makes an atrocious 3rd man in call in the PO's when it matters most. Either do your job and break it up or use some g******* discretion. When's the last time someone saw the 3rd man in rule used for its intended purpose? One of the worst rules in hockey because of the way it's written and enforced
Refs dont break up fights, as i said not. Their. Job.
Dubinsky getting the hook, i dont like but i do understand. But if boyle does what is right, there is no need for dubinsky to be the third man in. I like that dubinsky did what he thought he had to do to protect a teamate, hes clearly a stand up guy. Its a shame that boyle isnt more of one.
Don't really think the elbow is escalation. I think it was a dumb play where a guy got carried away.
As far as the code or not the code or whatever, in the past, not only would someone take a run at Boyle, but someone would start pummelling Gaborik or something like that with no fear of an instigator. It would get evened up.
I don't particularly want to go back to the golden age of fighting in the NHL, though I do enjoy a good tilt more than most. that said, policing and balancing things out still will happen in the NHL. The problem with modern hockey is the fact that clowns can tee off on the best players without much recourse. Suspensions aren't stiff enough, and fines aren't high enough. That's what is absurd.
Yeah, I didn't mean that the elbow itself was an escalation, but you would figure that if enforcing deters cheap shots Hagelin would not have gone high on Alfredsson?
The last paragraph is spot on.
The Red Wings and Preds handled it correctly.
Bertuzzi/Weber was a fair matchup (Carkner/Boyle isn't).
That deescalated the conflict because it put some closure on the incident.
So when carkner has him pinned on the glass, his face 9 inches from boyle and is talking to him, you think carkner is asking boyle if he saw the hunger games and waht he thought of it ?
Boyle had ample time to drop them, he made the mistake that he beleived that he could decline.
Why does Boyle have to fight a scrub? Send in a player of equal caliber like Neil (who Boyle later fought) or Smith.
