HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

This is why bettman does not want a luxury tax

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-04-2004, 02:23 PM
  #26
iagreewithidiots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Yet they haven't won since it was instituted. hmmmm?
Havent yet, but isnt it oh so much fun to hear every big name free agent being mentioned as a possible target for the Yankees.

So the Yankees not winning proves the luxury tax is decreasing payroll disparity?

iagreewithidiots is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 02:30 PM
  #27
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Havent yet, but isnt it oh so much fun to hear every big name free agent being mentioned as a possible target for the Yankees.

So the Yankees not winning proves the luxury tax is decreasing payroll disparity?
Who cares what the payroll disparity is? Isn't it about competitive balance? Isn't it pretty obvious by now the two aren't related in baseball or hockey?

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 02:35 PM
  #28
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Who cares what the payroll disparity is? Isn't it about competitive balance? Isn't it pretty obvious by now the two aren't related in baseball or hockey?

Yeah, you're right. As an Oilers fan, I think we got great value for Doug Weight. I mean really, Jochen Hecht & Marty Reasoner are great players. That was purely a hockey move, and disproves ANYONE who thinks otherwise. The Oilers don't sign big name free agents 'cause we don't want them. We'd rather have Fernando Pisani in the lineup than Brendan Shanahan anyday... It has NOTHING to do with the fact that he's $4 million a year cheaper.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 02:38 PM
  #29
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
Yeah, you're right. As an Oilers fan, I think we got great value for Doug Weight. I mean really, Jochen Hecht & Marty Reasoner are great players. That was purely a hockey move, and disproves ANYONE who thinks otherwise. The Oilers don't sign big name free agents 'cause we don't want them. We'd rather have Fernando Pisani in the lineup than Brendan Shanahan anyday... It has NOTHING to do with the fact that he's $4 million a year cheaper.
And St. Louis has lit the world on fire with Weight, haven't they? Wait a minute, they're desperate to get rid of him. Aren;t you glad then that the Oilers aren;t in that situation? If the Oilers want someone like Shanahan, maybe they should do a better job of drafting or trading.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 02:42 PM
  #30
HFNHL PIT GM
The Darth of Tytan
 
HFNHL PIT GM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
Yeah, you're right. As an Oilers fan, I think we got great value for Doug Weight. I mean really, Jochen Hecht & Marty Reasoner are great players. .
you would rather pay Doug Weight 8m and be no better than STL is ? I dont see anything wrong with this trade, Doug Weight is hardly worth a super star salary. Id say STL did EDM a favour.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
We'd rather have Fernando Pisani in the lineup than Brendan Shanahan anyday .
so would most teams, so EDM should keep Pisani and not complain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
... It has NOTHING to do with the fact that he's $4 million a year cheaper .

it upsets you that your team doesnt pay old and declining players 4m per year ? why wouldnt you be proud of that and grateful your team is smart enough to not pay Brendan Shanahan 4m per season.

why be jealous ?

dr

HFNHL PIT GM is online now  
Old
12-04-2004, 02:44 PM
  #31
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
And St. Louis has lit the world on fire with Weight, haven't they? Wait a minute, they're desperate to get rid of him. Aren;t you glad then that the Oilers aren;t in that situation? If the Oilers want someone like Shanahan, maybe they should do a better job of drafting or trading.

The Oilers have missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years Weight has been gone when they were on the verge of a breakthrough. How he has fit into the situation in St. Louis has nothing to do with his value in Edmonton. By the way, the Oilers have a guy named Ryan Smyth who has everything Shanahan has and guess what, THEY DRAFTED HIM. The Oilers have won 5 cups with no big name free agents. How bout those Wings? Did they draft Shanahan??? Draft Hull??? Draft Hasek??? Draft Robitaille?? Nope. Were they able to afford to keep Shanahan & Yzerman & Chelios when they could have been UFA's?? Yep. Don't even bother to compare the hockey operations of these two teams, it's a joke.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 02:52 PM
  #32
Captain Lou
Registered User
 
Captain Lou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 3,900
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Captain Lou
Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Havent yet, but isnt it oh so much fun to hear every big name free agent being mentioned as a possible target for the Yankees.

So the Yankees not winning proves the luxury tax is decreasing payroll disparity?
I have been reading all about how the luxury tax in baseball doesn't work and cite the Yankees as the reason why. There is a major flaw in this logic, and it stems primarily from a few simple, but often unnoticed factors:

1. Baseball, right now, operates under the premise of a league consisting of 29 teams and the Yankees. All the Yankees can do right now is spend money on high-priced over-the-hill players; they do not develop any major-league caliber players at all. The sole reason they have not acquired Randy Johnson is because they do not have the necessary assets to give to Arizona for him. So, in order to keep their place in the standings, they are forced to spend BIG. Notice how they overpay (in $) for virtually every player they acquire or sign? This system perpetuates itself, and eventually will lead the them to a total collapse.

2. The Yankees revenue is upwards of $500-$600 million. They can easily afford to have a payroll 2X or 3X or more of the average team. There is no such revenue disparity in hockey. Also, while the Yankees are paying these high salaries, they still MAKE money hand over fist. The Wings have the most payroll in hockey, yet they lost money last year.

3. Baseball GM's have seen through the Oakland A's that a team can be consistently competitive with a shoestring budget, and the market is correcting itself all over the league (except NYY). Many, many more players are being cut and being paid much much less they had been prior. NHL GM's will see this too.

4. The tax level is very high in baseball, as a % of revenue. All indicators in any new NHL say that the % will be lower (maybe not fixed).

So, basically, the MLB economic engine is/will be very different from an NHL one; and I for one, think that it is producing a drag on salaries, and working to eliminate SOME revenue disparity. Is it perfect? No, but the mid-to-high market teams do not spend as lavishly in the past. (Except BOS, NYY, who both OWN their own highly profitable TV Networks, which no NHL team does).

Captain Lou is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 03:27 PM
  #33
Tom_Benjamin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
The Oilers have missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years Weight has been gone when they were on the verge of a breakthrough.
This is a joke. The Oilers were mediocre with Weight. They are mediocre without him. They were not on the edge of a breakthrough. There is absolutely zero evidence to believe that this is true. None.

In fact, there is powerful evidence that it is not the case. If it was the case, you would be able to find teams who made a breakthrough with a draft and player development record that has been horrible for a decade. Name one team. The only reason the Oilers remain mediocre is by recycling the few good players they managed to acquire in deals with other teams. The Oilers haven't lost a single good player they drafted for financial reasons. Not one.

Oiler fans whined when they acquired Doug Weight in a trade and they whined when they unloaded him. They whined when they acquired Todd Marchant and they whined when he left as a free agent. Oiler fans whined when Corson left as a free agent with Joseph and Grier as compensation and then they whined when they lost both players. They whined when they traded Bill Guerin for Anson Carter and then they whined when they traded Carter for Dvorak.

Throughout the entire period covered by the CBA, the Oilers drafted one decent player (Tom Poti) and you think the Oilers were on the verge of a breakthrough?

What NHL have you been watching if you think that is possible?

Tom

Tom_Benjamin is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 03:34 PM
  #34
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 26,810
vCash: 500
I think it's a nice DREAM for all sports fans to envision the New York Yankees completely collapsing and on a downward spiral in the standings (well, except Yankees fans of course), but that's all it is...a dream. When it happened in the '80s, it's because they spent wildly on players no better than what other teams were acquiring for much less (i.e. the Danny Tartabull's of the world). Nowadays, they're paying top dollar for HOF talent (A-Rod, possibly Randy Johnson, possibly Carlos Beltran et al).

How does the MLB luxury tax help the Milwaukee Brewers? Pittsburgh Pirates? KC Royals?

Jag68Sid87 is online now  
Old
12-04-2004, 03:38 PM
  #35
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
This is a joke. The Oilers were mediocre with Weight. They are mediocre without him. They were not on the edge of a breakthrough. There is absolutely zero evidence to believe that this is true. None.

In fact, there is powerful evidence that it is not the case. If it was the case, you would be able to find teams who made a breakthrough with a draft and player development record that has been horrible for a decade. Name one team. The only reason the Oilers remain mediocre is by recycling the few good players they managed to acquire in deals with other teams. The Oilers haven't lost a single good player they drafted for financial reasons. Not one.

Oiler fans whined when they acquired Doug Weight in a trade and they whined when they unloaded him. They whined when they acquired Todd Marchant and they whined when he left as a free agent. Oiler fans whined when Corson left as a free agent with Joseph and Grier as compensation and then they whined when they lost both players. They whined when they traded Bill Guerin for Anson Carter and then they whined when they traded Carter for Dvorak.

Throughout the entire period covered by the CBA, the Oilers drafted one decent player (Tom Poti) and you think the Oilers were on the verge of a breakthrough?

What NHL have you been watching if you think that is possible?

Tom
You seem to spend a lot of time in the Business of Hockey Forum bashing Oiler fans. Did an Oiler fan steal your prom date/sister???

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 03:39 PM
  #36
Jag68Sid87
Registered User
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 26,810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
This is a joke. The Oilers were mediocre with Weight. They are mediocre without him. They were not on the edge of a breakthrough. There is absolutely zero evidence to believe that this is true. None.

In fact, there is powerful evidence that it is not the case. If it was the case, you would be able to find teams who made a breakthrough with a draft and player development record that has been horrible for a decade. Name one team. The only reason the Oilers remain mediocre is by recycling the few good players they managed to acquire in deals with other teams. The Oilers haven't lost a single good player they drafted for financial reasons. Not one.

Oiler fans whined when they acquired Doug Weight in a trade and they whined when they unloaded him. They whined when they acquired Todd Marchant and they whined when he left as a free agent. Oiler fans whined when Corson left as a free agent with Joseph and Grier as compensation and then they whined when they lost both players. They whined when they traded Bill Guerin for Anson Carter and then they whined when they traded Carter for Dvorak.

Throughout the entire period covered by the CBA, the Oilers drafted one decent player (Tom Poti) and you think the Oilers were on the verge of a breakthrough?

What NHL have you been watching if you think that is possible?

Tom
Doug Weight was a major part of the Oilers when he was there. Was he overrated to some extent? Well, obviously because somebody gave him $8 million to find that out...and THAT's the problem. Eliminate the POSSIBILITY of someone giving a Doug Weight $8 million per season and you wind up with a better league...with more competitive balance throughout.

As for the notion that the cap sets the budget for the Wings/Leafs/Flyers et al, and NOT revenues...so what? The extra revenue goes into the revenue-sharing pot and the Wings play by rules set for all 30 franchises.

I still don't understand why this is viewed as such an alien concept.

Jag68Sid87 is online now  
Old
12-04-2004, 03:41 PM
  #37
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
This is a joke. The Oilers were mediocre with Weight. They are mediocre without him. They were not on the edge of a breakthrough. There is absolutely zero evidence to believe that this is true. None.

In fact, there is powerful evidence that it is not the case. If it was the case, you would be able to find teams who made a breakthrough with a draft and player development record that has been horrible for a decade. Name one team. The only reason the Oilers remain mediocre is by recycling the few good players they managed to acquire in deals with other teams. The Oilers haven't lost a single good player they drafted for financial reasons. Not one.

Oiler fans whined when they acquired Doug Weight in a trade and they whined when they unloaded him. They whined when they acquired Todd Marchant and they whined when he left as a free agent. Oiler fans whined when Corson left as a free agent with Joseph and Grier as compensation and then they whined when they lost both players. They whined when they traded Bill Guerin for Anson Carter and then they whined when they traded Carter for Dvorak.

Throughout the entire period covered by the CBA, the Oilers drafted one decent player (Tom Poti) and you think the Oilers were on the verge of a breakthrough?

What NHL have you been watching if you think that is possible?

Tom
This is great coming from a fan of the NHL's posterchild of franchise history of uselesness, the Vancouver Canucks. Bashing the Oilers is a sign of one kind of envy. Suffer from any other kinds??

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 04:31 PM
  #38
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
How bout those Wings? Did they draft Shanahan??? Draft Hull??? Draft Hasek??? Draft Robitaille??
Nope. But they did draft Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Lapointe, Osgood, Kozlov, Konstantinov, Primeau, and McCarty-all guys who either were the core of the championship teams or were traded for others who were. Additionally, Hull and Robitialle took less money to come Detroit becuase they wanted win. Detroit also acquired Kris Draper for $1. Was that a case of Detroit screwing Edmonton? How about when the took Larry Murphy off the desperate hands of toronto, giving up nothing and not even paying the guy for a year and a half.

btw, before getting all high and mighty on Edmonton's drafting ability, you might want to check how they get Gretzky.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 04:39 PM
  #39
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
Nope. But they did draft Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Lapointe, Osgood, Kozlov, Konstantinov, Primeau, and McCarty-all guys who either were the core of the championship teams or were traded for others who were. Additionally, Hull and Robitialle took less money to come Detroit becuase they wanted win. Detroit also acquired Kris Draper for $1. Was that a case of Detroit screwing Edmonton? How about when the took Larry Murphy off the desperate hands of toronto, giving up nothing and not even paying the guy for a year and a half.

btw, before getting all high and mighty on Edmonton's drafting ability, you might want to check how they get Gretzky.

Where in the name of god did you see a claim from that the Oilers drafted Wayne Gretzky or had some mastery at the table?? Would the players you mentioned have come to Detroit for less money to win if they had lost Yzerman to UFA in or needed to trade him because they couldn't meet payroll demands in 93?? No, they came to a team that was able to stay intact and compete at the highest level because it could run an enormous payroll.

For your information, guys who were key to Oilers FIVE cups included DRAFT PICKS Messier, Fuhr, Coffey, Moog, Anderson, Tikkanen, Lowe. You may have heard of some of those guys, too.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 04:55 PM
  #40
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
Where in the name of god did you see a claim from that the Oilers drafted Wayne Gretzky or had some mastery at the table?? Would the players you mentioned have come to Detroit for less money to win if they had lost Yzerman to UFA in or needed to trade him because they couldn't meet payroll demands in 93?? No, they came to a team that was able to stay intact and compete at the highest level because it could run an enormous payroll.

For your information, guys who were key to Oilers FIVE cups included DRAFT PICKS Messier, Fuhr, Coffey, Moog, Anderson, Tikkanen, Lowe. You may have heard of some of those guys, too.
You're right the Red Wings were able to stay intact and compete at a champiosnhip level becuase they drafted well, traded well, and were successful enough that they could resign those guys and aument them with an occasional free agent. That sounds like a model franchise to me. Somethng that all the other teams should aspire to do. Instead they continue to make bad decisons and then blame those decisions on everbody but themselves. then instead of trying to become as successful as the Red Wings, they figure its easier if the Red Wings are brought down to their depths.

The "we can't compete because of the Red Wings" argument is so stupid and old and defeated I don't know why I waste my time with it anymore.

If all of those guys Edmonton drafted came along under a hard salary cap, how long you think they could have kept that team together? Or Montreal in the 50's and 70's. Or the Islanders.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 04:59 PM
  #41
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
You're right the Red Wings were able to stay intact and compete at a champiosnhip level becuase they drafted well, traded well, and were successful enough that they could resign those guys and aument them with an occasional free agent. That sounds like a model franchise to me. Somethng that all the other teams should aspire to do. Instead they continue to make bad decisons and then blame those decisions on everbody but themselves. then instead of trying to become as successful as the Red Wings, they figure its easier if the Red Wings are brought down to their depths.

The "we can't compete because of the Red Wings" argument is so stupid and old and defeated I don't know why I waste my time with it anymore.

If all of those guys Edmonton drafted came along under a hard salary cap, how long you think they could have kept that team together? Or Montreal in the 50's and 70's. Or the Islanders.
It's entirely possible they wouldn't have lasted forever under a cap.. At least, however, they could have competed on a level playing field. If the Oilers had a pizza man with 700 billion dollars who was willing to spend 60m a year, let me assure you they could make better hockey decisions, too. And FYI, it's not nice to call other people's points of view stupid, evin us stoopid canadians know that one. Oh, maybe that's why the rest of the world likes us.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:06 PM
  #42
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
By the way, the Oilers have a guy named Ryan Smyth who has everything Shanahan has
I missed this comment the first time. I can't even begin to respond to that, but here are some numbers to chew on.

Shanahan:
6-3, 220 lbs
18 seasons
3 Cups
558 goals
1151 points
2 fifty goal seasons
11 thirty goal seasons
52 playoff goals

Smyth:
6-1, 185 lbs
10 seasons
0 cups
198 goals
430 points
0 fifty goal seasons
2 thirty goal seasons
15 playoff goals

Now I really hope you don't want to argue that Smyth has had a better career or was a better player in him prime.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:10 PM
  #43
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
I missed this comment the first time. I can't even begin to respond to that, but here are some numbers to chew on.

Shanahan:
6-3, 220 lbs
18 seasons
3 Cups
558 goals
1151 points
2 fifty goal seasons
11 thirty goal seasons
52 playoff goals

Smyth:
6-1, 185 lbs
10 seasons
0 cups
198 goals
430 points
0 fifty goal seasons
2 thirty goal seasons
15 playoff goals

Now I really hope you don't want to argue that Smyth has had a better career or was a better player in him prime.

oH, YOU are such a smart stats copier. I can't believe how stoopid that makes me feel. I stated that the Oilers have someone who BRINGS EVERYTHING SHANAHAN DOES. I wouldn't trade Smyth for Shanahan. I didn't say he had had a better career. By the way, has Shanahan spent many years with Shawn Horcoff as the number one center on his team??

Must be nice to sit on the perch of the high and mighty regarding a hockey team that was one of the worst run franchises in professional sports for twenty years.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:12 PM
  #44
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
It's entirely possible they wouldn't have lasted forever under a cap.. At least, however, they could have competed on a level playing field.
this comment baffles me, and you didn't answer my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
If the Oilers had a pizza man with 700 billion dollars who was willing to spend 60m a year, let me assure you they could make better hockey decisions, too. And FYI, it's not nice to call other people's points of view stupid, evin us stoopid canadians know that one. Oh, maybe that's why the rest of the world likes us.
I don't know, when you say Mike ilitch has $700 billion it kinda exposes your ignorance. Or that you think because Detroit spent alot of money somehow Edmonton was prevented from drafting anyone with any ability. Did Detroit pay Edmonton millions of dollars to take crappy players?

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:13 PM
  #45
mudcrutch79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The Big Smoke
Posts: 3,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
It's entirely possible they wouldn't have lasted forever under a cap.. At least, however, they could have competed on a level playing field. If the Oilers had a pizza man with 700 billion dollars who was willing to spend 60m a year, let me assure you they could make better hockey decisions, too. And FYI, it's not nice to call other people's points of view stupid, evin us stoopid canadians know that one. Oh, maybe that's why the rest of the world likes us.
Bucky, you accused Tom Benjamin of having penis envy. I'd say the glass walls on your home are ripe for having bricks tossed through them. And that anti-American shot at the end is bush, and a major sign of the sense of moral superiority Canadians have because we're too gutless to ever do anything anymore due to our fear of causing offence. But I digress...

The Oilers in the 80's had revenues that led the league, or were close to it. If there'd been a level playing field, it's possible the team could have been dismantled earlier.

mudcrutch79 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:17 PM
  #46
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky
oH, YOU are such a smart stats copier. I can't believe how stoopid that makes me feel. I stated that the Oilers have someone who BRINGS EVERYTHING SHANAHAN DOES. I wouldn't trade Smyth for Shanahan. I didn't say he had had a better career. By the way, has Shanahan spent many years with Shawn Horcoff as the number one center on his team??

Must be nice to sit on the perch of the high and mighty regarding a hockey team that was one of the worst run franchises in professional sports for twenty years.
I wouldn't trade Smyth or Shanahan either. And no, Shanahan hasn't had Shawn Horcoff as his center. But one wonders if Smyth would have better numbers if Edmonton would have taken Pavel Datsyuk instead of Horcoff. But then again, detroit prevented Edmonton from choosing Datsyuk throguh their astronomical payroll

you're right, Detroit was horribly run for a lot of years. they also never blamed Montreal for their problems. they had bad ownership and bad management. Ilirch took over and hired smart people like Jim Devellano to run things. It took a long time for them to build the team into what it became. But rest assured, it was built, not bought.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:19 PM
  #47
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudcrutch79
Bucky, you accused Tom Benjamin of having penis envy. I'd say the glass walls on your home are ripe for having bricks tossed through them. And that anti-American shot at the end is bush, and a major sign of the sense of moral superiority Canadians have because we're too gutless to ever do anything anymore due to our fear of causing offence. But I digress...

The Oilers in the 80's had revenues that led the league, or were close to it. If there'd been a level playing field, it's possible the team could have been dismantled earlier.
Tom Benjamin accuses Oiler fans of whining about 8 times in the post I replied to, which is directly insulting. You can conjure up whatever you want regarding envy.

There is no Anti-American shot in the end of my post, my best friend is an American. It is a response to HockeyTown's assertion that "becoming an american showed Shanahan is smart". I am about as peacable a person as lives on this earth, having fought only (and very badly) on the ice. Nothing I say is indicative of "moral superiority" reflective of being Canadian. I guess I forgot to be "gutless" when offended. Next time I will be "morally superior" and cower in fear lest I cause offence.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:24 PM
  #48
hockeytown9321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Bucky

It is a response to HockeyTown's assertion that "becoming an american showed Shanahan is smart".
It was smart. Shanahan makes alot of money (duh, he's a Red Wing) He pays alot less in tax now that he's an Amercian. He'd be dumb if he didn't.

hockeytown9321 is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:24 PM
  #49
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
I wouldn't trade Smyth or Shanahan either.

you're right, Detroit was horribly run for a lot of years. they also never blamed Montreal for their problems. they had bad ownership and bad management. Ilirch took over and hired smart people like Jim Devellano to run things. It took a long time for them to build the team into what it became. But rest assured, it was built, not bought.

It's great that you can put words in my mouth, please allow me to use my own. I don't hate the Red Wings. I hate and blame the system that allows them to have such a disparity between their payroll and the Oilers. I admire the way they have been built, though I question if another system would allow them as much leeway as they have had. Hockey franchises can't be "bought" - look at the Rangers. I just have a passion for a team that doesn't have much chance under the last cba. It's not much different from how you must have felt when Red Wings fans were held hostage for so many years by mismanagement.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-04-2004, 05:25 PM
  #50
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,824
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeytown9321
It was smart. Shanahan makes alot of money (duh, he's a Red Wing) He pays alot less in tax now that he's an Amercian. He'd be dumb if he didn't.

That's not the context you used the quote in, and it's pretty cheap to pretend that it was.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.