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Should John Scott Play?

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Old
04-16-2012, 10:38 AM
  #201
blueshirtbolt
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i remember those colton orr fights, orr knocked him out twice. the boogard takedown was a joke. he uses his leg to trip boogard from memory

carkner, konopka, neil...

rupp, prust, bickel <- they're all big boys that can defend themselves. i doubt we'll see any more hassle with regards to our better players

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04-16-2012, 10:39 AM
  #202
TonyTheGr8
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Some posters here apparently haven't seen Carkner fight very often. Prust, Rupp, Bickel will have more than their hands full. Carkner has KO'ed Colton Orr and been KO'ed back. He kind of got the jump on Booggard and the body slam business is cheap and dirty but Carkner can hang with just about anyone--maybe not MacGrattan, maybe not MacIntyre. And Chris Neil is very good as well.

If the Rangers are put in the position of sending a message then Scott is the guy. That's plain and simple. But keeping in mind that we're in this to win games and not necessarily fights Kreider should go in the lineup before Scott does. And Kreider makes more sense. One speed burner of a left wing replacing another. After all Torts wanted Chris to watch Hagelin.
I think Bickel will handle him just fine. Prust can fight, but he's a little on the smaller side. Rupp is hit or miss sometimes. Bickel to me is the nastiest of our fighters. His soul purpose is to beat your head in. So, unless the series gets nastier, I would hold off until we get a series lead before putting Scott in. Just my 2 cents.

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04-16-2012, 10:41 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
it is baffling to me how Torts doesn't play Scott in game two when the Sens add Konokpa and Carkner to a lineup that already includes Neil, Smith, Cowen, Foligno and Greening.

Karlsson not much of a factor in game one...in game two...he has goons protecting him and he is the best player on the ice.

You fight fire with fire....let the dust settle then your stars can play their stars...to give Bickel and Rupp no ice time was just dumb.

Konokpa and Neil were on the ice every other shift.

I am advocating sitting Mitchell and dressing both Kreider and Scott.
Because with dressing Scott, it changes our plan. We are focusing more on retribution that actually playing hockey.

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04-16-2012, 10:58 AM
  #204
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To save money, if you want to watch Scott play so bad, just go to the Bronx zoo and spend time in front of the gorilla cage. It's the same thing. He has no business being in the lineup in place of Hagelin.

He has no business being in the lineup period. You don't need a one dimensional guy that can't skate or stick handle in the playoffs.

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04-16-2012, 11:10 AM
  #205
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by useref15 View Post
Because with dressing Scott, it changes our plan. We are focusing more on retribution that actually playing hockey.
No retribution, just preparation that we are ready for whatever you want to throw at us

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04-16-2012, 11:11 AM
  #206
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If Scott plays, Torts should be fired on the spot.

Stick with the game plan. Replace Hagelin with Kreider. Scott doesnt fit into what this team is trying to do.

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04-16-2012, 11:12 AM
  #207
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by Miamipuck View Post
To save money, if you want to watch Scott play so bad, just go to the Bronx zoo and spend time in front of the gorilla cage. It's the same thing. He has no business being in the lineup in place of Hagelin.

He has no business being in the lineup period. You don't need a one dimensional guy that can't skate or stick handle in the playoffs.
so we should just let Carkner beat up on our valuable players and pretend it is not happening

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Old
04-16-2012, 11:12 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by blueshirtbolt View Post
i remember those colton orr fights, orr knocked him out twice. the boogard takedown was a joke. he uses his leg to trip boogard from memory

carkner, konopka, neil...

rupp, prust, bickel <- they're all big boys that can defend themselves. i doubt we'll see any more hassle with regards to our better players
Agree with what a lot of folks are saying about Scott...and that's coming from someone who truly values physical intimidation. We put Scott in the lineup and we're creating a potential liability against this opponent at their barn. We could think about having him in the line up back at MSG when Torts has the last change. Otherwise it's a risk and would give them a clear signal that they are inside our heads.

On the other hand, I disagree on the bolded. I think the crap against our more skilled players will only increase as the playoffs continue. Which is why the Rangers (or any team) desperately needs players that can both play and physically dominate opponents....clean or dirty, scrum or 5 on 5. It's essential to play off success. Been saying it over and over again for years.

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Old
04-16-2012, 11:23 AM
  #209
NYR Sting
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Under no circumstances should Scott see a single second of icetime in the playoffs. It's bad enough that he occasionally plays during the regular season. If other teams want to waste roster spots on useless players, let them be the ones to take pointless penalties. This team should stick to playing hockey, which they do better than most other teams in the league. That won't be accomplished by wasting roster spots on players who can't play.

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04-16-2012, 11:33 AM
  #210
Orr Nightmare
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Some interesting stats from Game 2:

Bickel - 3:40
Mitchell - 4:31
Rupp - 2:38

Konokpa - 11:30
Neil - 14:06
Greening - 14:03
Winchester - 14:32
Foligno - 15:07
Smith - 15:18

so, Sens were rolling their big boys over the boards...Torts decides to sit 3 of his biggest hitters...I am a huge Torts supporter but he got out coached game 2.

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Old
04-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #211
NYR Sting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Some interesting stats from Game 2:

Bickel - 3:40
Mitchell - 4:31
Rupp - 2:38

Konokpa - 11:30
Neil - 14:06
Greening - 14:03
Winchester - 14:32
Foligno - 15:07
Smith - 15:18

so, Sens were rolling their big boys over the boards...Torts decides to sit 3 of his biggest hitters...I am a huge Torts supporter but he got out coached game 2.
He did get out coached, but it had nothing to do with how much certain guys played. It had to do with the game the Rangers were playing, especially in the third period. They weren't nearly aggressive enough offensively. They should have kept the Sens on their heels. Instead, they allowed Ottawa to control the pace and carry the puck through the neutral zone repeatedly.

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04-16-2012, 11:40 AM
  #212
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If this was a regular season I couldn't care less, but we need to steal a game on the road. If I had the video of John Scott on a breakaway, I'd post it up, but that was horrendous. Funny, but horrendous.

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04-16-2012, 11:42 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Under no circumstances should Scott see a single second of icetime in the playoffs. It's bad enough that he occasionally plays during the regular season. If other teams want to waste roster spots on useless players, let them be the ones to take pointless penalties. This team should stick to playing hockey, which they do better than most other teams in the league. That won't be accomplished by wasting roster spots on players who can't play.
What if he sees 5 seconds just to smash Karlsson or Spezza's head in on his first shift? That would be worth dressing him imo. If they are gonna send Carkner after Boyle then let's see how they handle our goons going after one of their skill guys. I wanna see that ***** Karlsson turtling on the ice after Scott suckerpunches him and then beats on him while the refs watch.

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04-16-2012, 11:43 AM
  #214
NYR Viper
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This all comes down to what most of us have been clamoring for for a while now, the Rangers top-6 is lacking any consistent physical presence who can drop the gloves if need be. Dubinsky was supposed to be that. He has been a 3rd liner. With Rupp and Bickel sitting most of the game this team loses some of its bite.

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04-16-2012, 12:05 PM
  #215
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by NYRangers16 View Post
What if he sees 5 seconds just to smash Karlsson or Spezza's head in on his first shift? That would be worth dressing him imo. If they are gonna send Carkner after Boyle then let's see how they handle our goons going after one of their skill guys. I wanna see that ***** Karlsson turtling on the ice after Scott suckerpunches him and then beats on him while the refs watch.
Right, because Boyle and Karlsson/Spezza are on the same level.

Brian Boyle is a 3rd or 4th liner who is bigger than most players in the league. Erik Karlsson is one of the best, most exciting, highly skilled players in the league. I would never want to see him injured for something as stupid as pointless retaliation. The same goes for Spezza.

I would have to seriously reconsider being a Ranger fan if they were responsible for a dirty play that injured one of the game's brightest stars. That's not the kind of hockey I want to watch or be a fan of. Furthermore, nothing good can be gained from stooping to their level. The Rangers are a better hockey team. Win the games and move on to the next round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
This all comes down to what most of us have been clamoring for for a while now, the Rangers top-6 is lacking any consistent physical presence who can drop the gloves if need be. Dubinsky was supposed to be that. He has been a 3rd liner. With Rupp and Bickel sitting most of the game this team loses some of its bite.
That's one way of looking at it. My perspective would be that what the Rangers are really lacking is another scorer, because most of this stuff would be a moot point if the Rangers had won the game, which they would have had they been able to score an insurance marker.

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04-16-2012, 12:09 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
so we should just let Carkner beat up on our valuable players and pretend it is not happening
Ahh Yes because starting a useless cant skate gorilla like Scott, would be a great way to get back @ Carkner tonight. Amirite?

Starting useless goons, is useless in the playoffs especially given the fact the player you so desperately want clobbered isn't even playing. Nice Red herring anyway.

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04-16-2012, 12:11 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
I would have to seriously reconsider being a Ranger fan if they were responsible for a dirty play that injured one of the game's brightest stars. That's not the kind of hockey I want to watch or be a fan of. Furthermore, nothing good can be gained from stooping to their level. The Rangers are a better hockey team. Win the games and move on to the next round.
I really don't think people are serious about injuring Karlsson and taking him out or condoning that type of play.. it's more of a point we're making about the NHL's ridiculous decisions.

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04-16-2012, 12:13 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
He did get out coached, but it had nothing to do with how much certain guys played. It had to do with the game the Rangers were playing, especially in the third period. They weren't nearly aggressive enough offensively. They should have kept the Sens on their heels. Instead, they allowed Ottawa to control the pace and carry the puck through the neutral zone repeatedly.
^^^^ This ^^^^

The Rangers outplayed Ottawa the majority of the game until the 3rd when they sat back. They were not out physicaled. IMO the Rangers dominated board play. It is a myth that Ottawa was somehow the tougher team on Saturday.........meh

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04-16-2012, 12:13 PM
  #219
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John Scott is expected to be positioned in front of the net on the Rangers power play, so at least one Ottawa defender will be injured while trying to move him.

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04-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by McDunna with Fries View Post
I really don't think people are serious about injuring Karlsson and taking him out or condoning that type of play.. it's more of a point we're making about the NHL's ridiculous decisions.
Maybe, maybe not. The poster referred to Karlsson with a derogatory term...for what? Because he's not a fighter? Right, he's just the best offensive defenseman in the league and one of the best playmakers to come into the league in some time. Either way, serious or not, it's a poor analogy. Karlsson and Boyle should not be compared, and Karlsson has nothing to do with Brendan Shanahan's decision making as the lord of discipline.

The last thing the Rangers should be worrying about is retaliation of any kind, which is why John Scott shouldn't be playing. The Rangers concern is readily apparent: score more goals and get back to playing stifling defense. You want to hurt Karlsson? Take away his time and space and force him to commit turnovers and get caught up the ice.

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04-16-2012, 12:15 PM
  #221
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Oh yeah, those were some murderous haymakers from Boyle. I'm surprised Karlsson didn't walk away from that scrum all black and blue.

And of course, you would see that hitting a defenseless player who is down on the ice as being somewhat warranted; you're a blind Senator homer.

And by attack, keep hitting Karlsson whenever he has the puck.
So what you are suggesting is the Rangers go after Karlsson and the Senators in response target whom in Game 3? Do you recommend Richards or Gaborik should pay the price in return?

Who are the lucky winners of the headhunting roulette you are advocating for Game 4?

The problem stems from the way NHL officials set the bar for what would be tolerated in terms of allowable intimidation tactics during last year's playoffs.

What Boyle did to Karlsson was just a continuation of the Bruins tactics, other than he delivered punches, not just a facewash. The effect or power of the punches doesn't matter, the intent was to intimidate one of the opponent's best players after the play.

Of course intimidation has and always will be an effective part of any contact sport, but it should be only tolerated by playing within the rules, not after every whistle.

I am absolutely positive in my mind Boyle was doing exactly as he was instructed to do, just went a little overboard. For the officials to penalize Karlsson on the play in question was ludicrous at best, and sent a clear message to all 16 teams, protect your own.

I don't condone what Carkner did in response, but I do understand it. If the NHL isn't going to apply the rules in an effective manner, nor support the rules via appropriate and consistent supplemental discipline, chaos ensues. Look no further than this year's playoffs as evidence.

While many may not like what Sens fans are writing, I seriously doubt there are many Ranger fans that wouldn't be talking the same way if the situation was reversed.

Our anger should be directed at the NHL and its management, all of us should express our displeasure with how the league is officiating these games. It is hockey a majority of us want to see, not roller derby or WWE.

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04-16-2012, 12:20 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Right, because Boyle and Karlsson/Spezza are on the same level.

Brian Boyle is a 3rd or 4th liner who is bigger than most players in the league. Erik Karlsson is one of the best, most exciting, highly skilled players in the league. I would never want to see him injured for something as stupid as pointless retaliation. The same goes for Spezza.

I would have to seriously reconsider being a Ranger fan if they were responsible for a dirty play that injured one of the game's brightest stars. That's not the kind of hockey I want to watch or be a fan of. Furthermore, nothing good can be gained from stooping to their level. The Rangers are a better hockey team. Win the games and move on to the next round.



That's one way of looking at it. My perspective would be that what the Rangers are really lacking is another scorer, because most of this stuff would be a moot point if the Rangers had won the game, which they would have had they been able to score an insurance marker.
Wow- you must seriously hate this NYR team who has battled and fought their way to the best record in the division. If you want your rangers to turn the other cheek and respond to cheap shots by not fighting back, then you mustve loved the smurfs teams of the 1980's.

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04-16-2012, 12:22 PM
  #223
GordonGecko
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Just read unconfirmed reports that Scott is definitely in the lineup tonight

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04-16-2012, 12:27 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Maybe, maybe not. The poster referred to Karlsson with a derogatory term...for what? Because he's not a fighter? Right, he's just the best offensive defenseman in the league and one of the best playmakers to come into the league in some time. Either way, serious or not, it's a poor analogy. Karlsson and Boyle should not be compared, and Karlsson has nothing to do with Brendan Shanahan's decision making as the lord of discipline.

The last thing the Rangers should be worrying about is retaliation of any kind, which is why John Scott shouldn't be playing. The Rangers concern is readily apparent: score more goals and get back to playing stifling defense. You want to hurt Karlsson? Take away his time and space and force him to commit turnovers and get caught up the ice.
I disagree. I used a derogatory term on Karlsson because he couldnt take Boyle's facewash in gm 1 and had his teammates get retailiation for him. Totally fair game. And he had everything to do with it, along with the refs, the NHL, and Shanaban.

You seem to ignore how unfair all of this is...There's multiple injustices here and I would absolutely like to see us go after their guys. At a certain point you have to stick up for yourself and your teammates. If they are going to mug Boyle then we up the anti and go after a better player. Watch how fast that **** stops on their end.

You don'T roll over and take it. You push back, put an end to it, then kick their ass on the scoreboard and move on.

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04-16-2012, 12:33 PM
  #225
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If they are going to mug Boyle then we up the anti and go after a better player. Watch how fast that **** stops on their end.
No. You watch how things escalate and Richards/Gaborik/Spezza end up being injured.

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