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ECQF: #2 Boston Bruins v. #7 Washington Capitals Part II

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04-23-2012, 11:01 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Green showed more creativity at even strength than Wideman did on the PP last night. It's completely inexplicable that Wideman got all the time.
I think this is what TX is saying...THAT is why Green got benched essentially. DH doesn't want "creativity"..he wants a structured robotical approach to how is team plays in all zones.

The players that "do things by the book" ..regardless of the results..are the ones who earn favor.

That probably explains why many of our high end skill players (who use creativity) don't get the proper TOI in proportion to how good they are.

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04-23-2012, 11:04 AM
  #752
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wideman: his production is a matter of power play, but being fair the power play success was a result of wideman's production. i am not against wideman on 1pp. i am against green not being on 1pp and/or not getting at least half of the pp time.

i am not against keeping wideman. i am against him leading in minutes when green and carlson are skating and defending well.

i am not entirely against aucoin instead of mp or halpern. i am against aucoin on 1pp when we are only really playing one unit. why?

previously in this series there were two pp units getting about equal ice time. the pp scores three goals that were individual plays by semin and brouwer. brouwer scores the winner in game 5 and in game 6 he gets next to no pp time as the 1pp was bumped up to 1:45 of the pp time and aucoin got the slot that brouwer would play.

green scores and wideman gets his pp time. it gives me a headache.

its also worth noting that after scoring goals both green and chimera had their minutes restricted.

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04-23-2012, 11:08 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I think this is what TX is saying...THAT is why Green got benched essentially. DH doesn't want "creativity"..he wants a structured robotical approach to how is team plays in all zones.

The players that "do things by the book" ..regardless of the results..are the ones who earn favor.

That probably explains why many of our high end skill players (who use creativity) don't get the proper TOI in proportion to how good they are.
thats it. hunter line matches to a fault. the game situation almost never gets hunter off his line matching. caps kill a penalty and the bruins throw out their first line for the next face off. hunter brings out the beagle bunch for an offensive zone face off and clOOOde keeps the caps 1st line off the ice.

if dale is that structured at that level, i can imagine that he is that way with everything

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04-23-2012, 11:09 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
i understand why the shifted those minutes a couple games ago.....52 was not doing a good job either. That said.....6 is just terrible

neither of them play smart hockey....with the puck, without the puck.....they just dont make enough smart plays.....i'd roll the dice with 52 at this point for sure, 6 is terrible
52 hasn't been on the ice for an even strength goal against in the series. 6 has been on for seven of them.

The shift made no sense at any point in the series.

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04-23-2012, 11:10 AM
  #755
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52 hasn't been on the ice for an even strength goal against in the series. 6 has been on for seven of them.

The shift made no sense at any point in the series.
this. been watching their stats and just shaking my head.

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04-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #756
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The whole OT (and it wasn't very long) we looked tentative and skittish. We saw that a lot at times during the regular season - hadn't seen it much at all during this series (last 5 minutes of the 2nd period in Game 5 maybe).

Very odd that we came out like that in OT.

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04-23-2012, 11:11 AM
  #757
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you still drinking today, rh? you are defending the use of wideman over green by saying green didnt work hard enough to earn a shift?

are you saying that carlson was being outworked by wideman as to lose his shutdown role to wideman? meanwhile green skated every other shift on that 4 minute penalty kill. but he wasnt working hard enough?

is dale pride that blinding? and lastly...maybe dale benches green because he doesnt like pretty boys? i could almost believe that. you approve of that?
I think its you that has the spins this morning.

7 questions, nothing new really but why bother trying to be so dramatic on what is my mere speculation.

I don't mind being wrong but want to hear others opinions, not others question parades.

So why don't you instead provide the answer on why the Wides or Aucoin love, exactly Dale's thinking, instead of embarrassingly trying to spin my speculation into ill conceived questions... like am I saying Carlson was being outworked???? Huh?

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04-23-2012, 11:13 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by marcel snapshot View Post
The whole OT (and it wasn't very long) we looked tentative and skittish. We saw that a lot at times during the regular season - hadn't seen it much at all during this series (last 5 minutes of the 2nd period in Game 5 maybe).

Very odd that we came out like that in OT.
Yup. I pretty much knew we were going to lose after the first 2-3 minutes if we didn't escape the first half of the period.

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04-23-2012, 11:14 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
52 hasn't been on the ice for an even strength goal against in the series. 6 has been on for seven of them.

The shift made no sense at any point in the series.
I wish we had some half decent beat reporters here who would ask these tough questions to DH and follow up until they get an answer. Sure Hunter may not give the "full reason" but we can draw conclusions.

Green has clearly been better in EVERY facet of the game than Wideman. The stats prove what we see on the ice.

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04-23-2012, 11:17 AM
  #760
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I wish we had some half decent beat reporters here who would ask these tough questions to DH and follow up until they get an answer. Sure Hunter may not give the "full reason" but we can draw conclusions.

Green has clearly been better in EVERY facet of the game than Wideman. The stats prove what we see on the ice.
Nobody wants to risk ruffling any feathers and losing access to the organization. As much as he's a blowhard, we need a Larry Brooks--someone who's so entrenched in the local sports scene that he can't be cut off by the team.

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04-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #761
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There's so many questions to the use of the players its hard to justify not getting upset.

However those questions are still relatively unanswered compared to the consistent mental idiots that our stars have shown to be.... and I'm more frustrated with that than anything Dale has/hasn't done.

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04-23-2012, 11:26 AM
  #762
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There's so many questions to the use of the players its hard to justify not getting upset.

However those questions are still relatively unanswered compared to the consistent mental idiots that our stars have shown to be.... and I'm more frustrated with that than anything Dale has/hasn't done.
Mental idiocy doesn't come from nowhere. It's not blind luck that we just happened to draft a team full of mental midgets. Some systems are more prone to mistake making.

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04-23-2012, 11:35 AM
  #763
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Mental idiocy doesn't come from nowhere. It's not blind luck that we just happened to draft a team full of mental midgets. Some systems are more prone to mistake making.
I have to completely disagree with everyone who thinks are young guns are "mental midgets" or that the team is "dumb"

This is simply not true. Everyone in hockey makes mistakes from time to time. All our young guns have acquitted themselves very well in this series. Sure they have made some errors but so have guys on the other team like Chara. Its bound to happen.

We just don't have a reliable 3rd pairing D or legit 4th line. Those things are very important. Wideman/Schultz have cost us dearly. Aucoin/MP are being played out of position on the 4th line in order to find a way to insert them in the lineup.

Ovechkin/Semin/Backstrom/Green/Laich have all played well overall.

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04-23-2012, 11:38 AM
  #764
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Hate to rehash the past but I have found Hunter mind boggling from the day he benched Hamrlik after the Carolina 5 - 1 loss. Hamr was on ice for the fifth goal only at a time when the game was a foregone conclusion. Had he been on ice for 3 or 4 goals it would have made sense. But that was Wideman again actually. Never, ever, ever made sense.

Schultz having gone from eating hot dogs, to being the saviour, to eating hot dogs again is a laugh. "Schultzie" was supposed to be exemplary.

Erskine sitting for eternity is another laugh and then is inserted back in because "Schultzie" turned to dust against the Bruins. The pairing of Schultzie and Wideman produced 2 hit on the Bruins in 4 games.

Orlov is rotting because of a couple of rookie mistakes. But he can't be any worse than Wideman, I swear.

Green wonders now what his role is: defense, offense, PK, PP, blah, blah, blah.

Meanwhile Wideman continues: to make mistakes over and over since forever; replaces Carlson on the first PK for some unbeknownst reason; replaces Green on first PP after Green actually scores; replaces Green at ES play for some unbeknownst reason; and continues his screwups because for the most part he can't read a defensive play to save his life. Nor has he done anything on offense.

Wideman seems like a soldier but I've gotten to the point where I can't stand him because of his preferential treatment.

End of rant. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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04-23-2012, 11:41 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Hate to rehash the past but I have found Hunter mind boggling from the day he benched Hamrlik after the Carolina 5 - 1 loss. Hamr was on ice for the fifth goal only at a time when the game was a foregone conclusion. Had he been on ice for 3 or 4 goals it would have made sense. But that was Wideman again actually. Never, ever, ever made sense.

Schultz having gone from eating hot dogs, to being the saviour, to eating hot dogs again is a laugh. "Schultzie" was supposed to be exemplary.

Erskine sitting for eternity is another laugh and then is inserted back in because "Schultzie" turned to dust against the Bruins. The pairing of Schultzie and Wideman produced 2 hit on the Bruins in 4 games.

Orlov is rotting because of a couple of rookie mistakes. But he can't be any worse than Wideman, I swear.

Green wonders now what his role is: defense, offense, PK, PP, blah, blah, blah.

Meanwhile Wideman continues: to make mistakes over and over since forever; replaces Carlson on the first PK for some unbeknownst reason; replaces Green on first PP after Green actually scores; replaces Green at ES play for some unbeknownst reason; and continues his screwups because for the most part he can't read a defensive play to save his life. Nor has he done anything on offense.

Wideman seems like a soldier but I've gotten to the point where I can't stand him because of his preferential treatment.

End of rant. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
And once we win game 7 this Wed all will be forgiven

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04-23-2012, 11:46 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
i understand why the shifted those minutes a couple games ago.....52 was not doing a good job either. That said.....6 is just terrible

neither of them play smart hockey....with the puck, without the puck.....they just dont make enough smart plays.....i'd roll the dice with 52 at this point for sure, 6 is terrible

Agree on all points. It is not clear that Green is better than Wideman when the TOI goes up especially.

But #6 is so god awful that I'd risk it with #52 because Green might get involved with scoring a goal and even things out.

McPhee is not a good enough judge of talent and chemistry. #6, #52 and #Schultz prove it.

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04-23-2012, 11:52 AM
  #767
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Nobody wants to risk ruffling any feathers and losing access to the organization. As much as he's a blowhard, we need a Larry Brooks--someone who's so entrenched in the local sports scene that he can't be cut off by the team.
This is s hugely important point. That piece on Hunter that Wise (who I think is a jackass) did is the closest thing to substantive coverage the Caps have had in ages. They need someone willing to push management and the coaches on tough questions. Our current writers would rather condescend to the fans and tell us we're stupid and write fluff pieces about ex-players.

The bloggers, who are generally better than the news people, serve at the pleasure of the King so aren't going to push too hard.

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04-23-2012, 11:56 AM
  #768
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I think this is what TX is saying...THAT is why Green got benched essentially. DH doesn't want "creativity"..he wants a structured robotical approach to how is team plays in all zones.

The players that "do things by the book" ..regardless of the results..are the ones who earn favor.

That probably explains why many of our high end skill players (who use creativity) don't get the proper TOI in proportion to how good they are.
I would say that in a team game at the professional level in the playoffs, no matter how talented and skilled you are, it would benefit your team to play under the system/structure your coach has created. I think this holds true for all team sports. This is why players who freelance get such a bad reputation, because they want to do things their way w/o accounting for the negatives brought on by their ways. I'm okay with Dale wanting his players to play within the system. And if that is the reason why Green or Ovi or Semin isn't seeing much TOI during some games, then I would say that these guys need to buy into the system and do what the coach is asking them to do. This kind of adds more fuel to the fire that Bruce let these guys get away with freelancing.

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04-23-2012, 12:02 PM
  #769
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And once we win game 7 this Wed all will be forgiven
Thanks for reading (listening). LOL

And I will be the first to forgive if Hunter's D alignment comes through on Wednesday whatever it may be.

But I swear Hunter is in cahoots somehow with Wideman's agent to get him a new contract whereby minutes played = more dollars.

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04-23-2012, 12:03 PM
  #770
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This is s hugely important point. That piece on Hunter that Wise (who I think is a jackass) did is the closest thing to substantive coverage the Caps have had in ages. They need someone willing to push management and the coaches on tough questions. Our current writers would rather condescend to the fans and tell us we're stupid and write fluff pieces about ex-players.

The bloggers, who are generally better than the news people, serve at the pleasure of the King so aren't going to push too hard.
But yet the local sports scene doesn't hesitate to rip the Redskins...even if it is deserved. It's very strange why the Capitals aren't subjected to the same slicing and dicing, unless they're waiting for a loss in Game 7 and another first round exit.

The Caps need and deserve critcism. All I hear on the radio from buffoons like Wise are why are Caps fans upset? They're trying hard!!! They've got Boston to Game 7!! Pffff. They're only where they are because their rookie goalie luckily went superhuman for them in this series. Yesterday they were constantly playing catch up and in OT they did nothing. Boston has been there, Boston has won multiple Game 7s on a Cup run. They played desperate yesterday, the Caps did not.

I guess we'll see how the local media responds if they lose Wednesday.

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04-23-2012, 12:06 PM
  #771
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I would say that in a team game at the professional level in the playoffs, no matter how talented and skilled you are, it would benefit your team to play under the system/structure your coach has created. I think this holds true for all team sports. This is why players who freelance get such a bad reputation, because they want to do things their way w/o accounting for the negatives brought on by their ways. I'm okay with Dale wanting his players to play within the system. And if that is the reason why Green or Ovi or Semin isn't seeing much TOI during some games, then I would say that these guys need to buy into the system and do what the coach is asking them to do. This kind of adds more fuel to the fire that Bruce let these guys get away with freelancing.
Its a matter of how much control is good for the Coach to have vs the Players.

To me you have to work the strengths of your team. We have invested heavily in skill players. Skill players, in order to maximize their returns, have to be able to use creativity.

Fedorov came from Hitchcock to BB and immediately said he loved it here b/c the coach lets the players play hockey as it needs to be played.

The main portion of our rostered players (the top ones) are being wasted and stifled. They are not given the reigns to make things happen.

One fluke win in the series w Montreal when they had a goalie who stood on his head has caused all of this. It was a panic move likely started by GMGM.

I don't see how you can't stress hardwork while allowing creativity...there are plenty of teams that do allow that and it works. We don't have to be the St Louis Blues East to bring in results.

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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Thanks for reading (listening). LOL

And I will be the first to forgive if Hunter's D alignment comes through on Wednesday whatever it may be.

But I swear Hunter is in cahoots somehow with Wideman's agent to get him a new contract whereby minutes played = more dollars.
I think ALL of us will forgive DH when we come out on top!

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04-23-2012, 12:13 PM
  #772
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My idea on why Green didn't get instant PP time after scoring what should be a routine goal for him, he probably hadn't practiced with PP1. While our PP sucks it did appear to have a few set plays in place. Watch for a tweet mentioning Green getting PP1 time in practice.

There is a method to his madness. Humbling the stars or benching vets, f'in with Julien, keeping players healthy; demoralizing the opposition, limiting Green, being unpredictable. It's hockey, it's a simple sport and anything goes, because in the end hard work alone can win games. A genius offensive coordinator is not needed. Ovi Semin and Green still score in presumed less chances in our no face offense. You don't know how he did it, but maybe stamina, the players mental approach, making the best of ones chances, are all in play here. Who knows, but he got us this far.

It would be quite the story if Wideman scores the OT goal up in Boston in game 7. From Aucoin, and Knuble, naturally.

Nice rant swimmer!


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04-23-2012, 12:16 PM
  #773
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Tarik El-Bashir
After averaging 21.8 blocked shots in Games 1-5, the #Caps blocked 12 in Game 6.

Tarik El-Bashir
#Caps Hunter on decease in blocks: From the point, they’re shooting it wide, missing the net more because they don’t want to get it blocked.

Thats a pretty good adjustment from Claude there.

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04-23-2012, 12:17 PM
  #774
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Tarik El-Bashir
After averaging 21.8 blocked shots in Games 1-5, the #Caps blocked 12 in Game 6.

Tarik El-Bashir
#Caps Hunter on decease in blocks: From the point, they’re shooting it wide, missing the net more because they don’t want to get it blocked.

Thats a pretty good adjustment from Claude there.
It's also made possible by the fact that half our defense can't skate, and therefore can't maintain tight gap control.

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04-23-2012, 12:18 PM
  #775
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My idea on why Green didn't get instant PP time after scoring what should be a routine goal for him, he probably hadn't practiced with PP1. While our PP sucks it did appear to have a few set plays in place. Watch for a tweet mentioning Green getting PP1 time in practice.

There is a method to his madness. Humbling the stars or benching vets, f'in with Julien, keeping players healthy; demoralizing the opposition, being unpredictable. It's hockey, it's a simple sport and anything goes, because in the end hard work alone can win games. A genius offensive coordinator is not needed. Ovi Semin and Green still score in presumed less chances. You don't know how he did it, but maybe stamina, the players mental approach, making the best of ones chances, are all in play here. Who knows, but he got us this far. It would be quite the story if Wideman scores the OT goal up in Boston in game 7. From Aucoin, and Ward, naturally.

Nice rant swimmer!
Well spoken RH.

We can be as mad as we want with all of his seemingly strange decisions that go against all most of us can plainly agree on.

But on the other hand we all can plainly agree on the fact that the Caps have come out with a ton of grit and a determination we haven't seen in some time.

I will reserve my harshest criticism should he fail. I don't believe I will have to tho. The Caps have been amazingly resilient and just when you think they are down and out they come out with an inspired effort.

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