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Fleury not the problem, 5v5 is the problem

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05-08-2013, 01:22 AM
  #1
Master Shake
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Fleury not the problem, 5v5 is the problem

The Isles look like they are on a pp when its 5 on 5. We simply are incapable of moving the puck. Also to be frank, Fleury only gave up 1 questionable goal that could be pinned on him in the first 4.

Also all goals but the last were the result of our team getting their ***** handed to them in their own end. Crosby and Malkin both have been sucking in their own end as well. Even Cooke has looked bad. The only guy who looked decent tonight in our zone was Orpik who was also just coming back for the first time in a couple of weeks.

The one thing I can say is the Islanders do not hold the puck in our end as well when they are being checked. But when we are not playing the body they easily keep the puck in our zone.

The funny thing is we look better in our own end when we are down a man than we do when its 5 on 5. Explain that crap to me because its so absurd I cannot understand it.

Time to put Engelland back in and sit one of the soft dguys. Niskanen, Martin or Eaton.


Every year since the cup its the same story with us, other teams seem to know how to keep us pinned.

I think its time to switch to a different system for the playoffs to mix it up some.

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05-08-2013, 01:59 AM
  #2
doginthefog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
The Isles look like they are on a pp when its 5 on 5. We simply are incapable of moving the puck. Also to be frank, Fleury only gave up 1 questionable goal that could be pinned on him in the first 4.

Also all goals but the last were the result of our team getting their ***** handed to them in their own end. Crosby and Malkin both have been sucking in their own end as well. Even Cooke has looked bad. The only guy who looked decent tonight in our zone was Orpik who was also just coming back for the first time in a couple of weeks.

The one thing I can say is the Islanders do not hold the puck in our end as well when they are being checked. But when we are not playing the body they easily keep the puck in our zone.

The funny thing is we look better in our own end when we are down a man than we do when its 5 on 5. Explain that crap to me because its so absurd I cannot understand it.

Time to put Engelland back in and sit one of the soft dguys. Niskanen, Martin or Eaton.


Every year since the cup its the same story with us, other teams seem to know how to keep us pinned.

I think its time to switch to a different system for the playoffs to mix it up some.
I think there were a couple things that could be better in future games and it has to do with dumpins and offensive zone pressure. It seemed like a lot of the times the dump in would have nobody forechecking and was not timed properly with the linemates hitting the blue line with speed. The few times the Pens were able to do this, they generated offense including most memorably Sutter's goal. The rest of the time, the isles had lots of time and could just throw it off the boards or to someone who was open.

When the pens did have control in the zone, their offensive pressure from the defense seemed to be lacking. The high forward needs to be able to get back and support the D-man so he can pinch and hold pucks in sustaining pressure. Too often I thought the defense started backing up a bit earlier likely a response to worrying about the Islander's speed and them being able to get odd man rushes but the high forward coming to support really should negate that most of the time.

And obviously getting some solid goaltending and timely saves can win games alone.


Last edited by doginthefog: 05-08-2013 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Needed to say Vokoun should start
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05-08-2013, 01:59 AM
  #3
Malkin4Top6Wingerz
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Can you stop flooding the forum please? We get it, you don't like certain things about the team. Not every thought that pops into your head needs a seperate thread.

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05-08-2013, 02:19 AM
  #4
Master Shake
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Originally Posted by doginthefog View Post
I think there were a couple things that could be better in future games and it has to do with dumpins and offensive zone pressure. It seemed like a lot of the times the dump in would have nobody forechecking and was not timed properly with the linemates hitting the blue line with speed. The few times the Pens were able to do this, they generated offense including most memorably Sutter's goal. The rest of the time, the isles had lots of time and could just throw it off the boards or to someone who was open.

When the pens did have control in the zone, their offensive pressure from the defense seemed to be lacking. The high forward needs to be able to get back and support the D-man so he can pinch and hold pucks in sustaining pressure. Too often I thought the defense started backing up a bit earlier likely a response to worrying about the Islander's speed and them being able to get odd man rushes but the high forward coming to support really should negate that most of the time.

And obviously getting some solid goaltending and timely saves can win games alone.


I really do not think this is on Fleury. Im not saying he played great tonight but if we could get the damn puck out of our own zone we should have won 4-1 or 4-2.

I do not care what goalie you put in there, with the pressure we are giving up, we are going to lose. Its not even about the amount of shots either, its about the quality. We are giving up real high quality shots and chances.

I think we should look at the LW Lock. Its a good defensive system similar to the trap but has a good counter and allows for offensive chances

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05-08-2013, 02:24 AM
  #5
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Stop saying he's not the problem. Stop.

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05-08-2013, 02:24 AM
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Fleury is not the problem, but he is definitely a problem.

5v5 play is a huge issue though, you're right. Not sure what we can do to fix it, honestly. The Isles are simply out skating and out battling us. It's mystifying, but it's happened just about three games in a row. I say just about because I thought we were much better tonight than we have been. You might even say we deserved to win this one.

Vokoun won't solve the 5v5 issue but he might be able to steal us a game or two, something Fleury has been unable to do. It's also possible simple by switching Fleury out for Vokoun that the team will gain some confidence and play less nervous. You can see them being nervous with the puck out there, which is a symptom of Fleury's porous play as they know if they make mistakes it's in the back of the net.

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05-08-2013, 02:30 AM
  #7
Master Shake
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Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post




Stop saying he's not the problem. Stop.



Read my post. I said the 3rd and last goal were bad ones. But lets be honest here. The last was when the game was already over anyways.

The 3rd was the only bad goal he gave up in the first 4 they scored. The point being our defense was so awful they hung him out to dry.

In a normal game his tending was more than enough to win tonight. He was not the problem. The play in our own zone is the problem. This cannot be stressed enough. Its like saying Archie Manning was bad when he was with the Saints because his stats were not the greatest when the reality was his blocking was so horrible they got him killed damn near.

This thread isnt about Fleury, on topic its about our system and 5v5 play. Because that is the REAL reason we are losing.

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05-08-2013, 02:31 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post
Stop saying he's not the problem. Stop.
basically this. MAF isn't the only problem but he's a debilitating problem. the team is getting outworked and is playing stupid hockey. thing is for as bad as they've played they've held 3-1, 4-2 and 3-2 leads at critical junctures in the last three games. hell, with a little bit of luck this could have already been a sweep despite the Islanders playing lights out and the Pens playing a decidedly putrid brand of hockey. the other issues need to be worked out, but MAF is losing winnable games by surrendering laughable goals.

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05-08-2013, 02:35 AM
  #9
Master Shake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancakes View Post
Fleury is not the problem, but he is definitely a problem.

5v5 play is a huge issue though, you're right. Not sure what we can do to fix it, honestly. The Isles are simply out skating and out battling us. It's mystifying, but it's happened just about three games in a row. I say just about because I thought we were much better tonight than we have been. You might even say we deserved to win this one.

Vokoun won't solve the 5v5 issue but he might be able to steal us a game or two, something Fleury has been unable to do. It's also possible simple by switching Fleury out for Vokoun that the team will gain some confidence and play less nervous. You can see them being nervous with the puck out there, which is a symptom of Fleury's porous play as they know if they make mistakes it's in the back of the net.


Good post and I agree.
But at same time the way they are moving the puck around in our zone you need a goalie that is super agile.

But I do think Fleury got rattled tonight after the 4th goal.

We need to change our defensive system and fast. It is getting rocked. I do agree that we looked better than the prior 2 games though.

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05-08-2013, 02:44 AM
  #10
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When team can't trust their goalie, they make mistakes in own end. It's a hockey fact. Vokoun to net and penns play a lot better. end of discussion.

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05-08-2013, 02:59 AM
  #11
Coach John McGuirk
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When team can't trust their goalie, they make mistakes in own end. It's a hockey fact. Vokoun to net and penns play a lot better. end of discussion.
This.

Nobody is excusing the team's play defensively, but when there is absolutely ZERO confidence or faith in your goaltender to make a run of the mill save, let alone bail them out should the need arise, guys start to try to do too much and second guess everything they do.

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05-08-2013, 03:02 AM
  #12
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There are more than enough threads around for the airing of grievances.

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