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MAF has a Save% under .900 4 straight series

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Old
04-17-2012, 10:03 AM
  #126
Pens1566
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Look to the swiss cheese defense in front of the net for the real answer.

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04-17-2012, 10:08 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
Watching Ottawa and NYR last night, and all of the clutch saves both goalies made on prime scoring chances, made me loath MAF even worse.

Bottom line; there is seriously much better uses for his price. Get Nabby from NYI.....

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04-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Watching Ottawa and NYR last night, and all of the clutch saves both goalies made on prime scoring chances, made me loath MAF even worse.

Bottom line; there is seriously much better uses for his price. Get Nabby from NYI.....
but but but if the Pens play solid defense and clear all rebounds, MAF can give them a .915 save% in the playoffs!!!!

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04-17-2012, 10:30 AM
  #129
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Three more years on his deal - he's not going anywhere, for now, unless a big and creative trade is made.

But if he's a liability next spring behind a respectable defensive team then Shero's going to have a messy problem to address.


Last edited by WVP: 04-17-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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Old
04-17-2012, 10:33 AM
  #130
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Let's be clear, if the Penguins play a solid team defensive game they would have advanced this round-with MAF.

My only point is that you can get the same results from the goaltending position, for a half the cost. That matters in a salary cap world. Fleury is like 27, he's as good as he is going to ever be. He's average. You can win with average, but you dont want to pay average above-average! ha

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04-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Richard View Post
Let's be clear, if the Penguins play a solid team defensive game they would have advanced this round-with MAF.

My only point is that you can get the same results from the goaltending position, for a half the cost. That matters in a salary cap world. Fleury is like 27, he's as good as he is going to ever be. He's average. You can win with average, but you dont want to pay average above-average! ha
That's my point as well. If your goalie is going to make 5+, he shouldn't need optimal conditions to thrive.

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04-17-2012, 11:10 AM
  #132
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People have short memories. If Fleury didn't play as well as he did this season, we wouldn't have been in the 4 seed. He is responsible for getting us where we were. No goaltender would do much better with the chances this team is giving up routinely these last 3 games. No goaltender.

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04-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
People have short memories. If Fleury didn't play as well as he did this season, we wouldn't have been in the 4 seed. He is responsible for getting us where we were. No goaltender would do much better with the chances this team is giving up routinely these last 3 games. No goaltender.
I respect your opinion about the regular season, but I believe that you are absolutely, totally wrong with your opinion on the bolded part. Listen MAF isn't the reason we are going to get freight trained out of the postseason, but he is a very strong culprit.

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Old
04-17-2012, 11:37 AM
  #134
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I respect your opinion about the regular season, but I believe that you are absolutely, totally wrong with your opinion on the bolded part. Listen MAF isn't the reason we are going to get freight trained out of the postseason, but he is a very strong culprit.
A lot of the goals he's giving up are plays that would be pinned on a forward if he didn't score. That's how glorious some of these chances have been. Has he let in some goals he should have stopped? Sure. I can point to 5 or 6 guys I've been more disappointed with.

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04-17-2012, 11:43 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
A lot of the goals he's giving up are plays that would be pinned on a forward if he didn't score. That's how glorious some of these chances have been. Has he let in some goals he should have stopped? Sure. I can point to 5 or 6 guys I've been more disappointed with.
The Talbot shorty in gm 2 was Sid's fault. You won't get many admitting that though. MAF has really been hung out to dry in this series. Too many wide open looks and easy tap ins.

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04-17-2012, 11:45 AM
  #136
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You gotta be pretty good at remembering all the scoring chances around the league to make an argument that the penguins give up more of them than other teams.
Take a look at a few Leaf "high"lites this year.

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Old
04-17-2012, 12:10 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
A lot of the goals he's giving up are plays that would be pinned on a forward if he didn't score. That's how glorious some of these chances have been. Has he let in some goals he should have stopped? Sure. I can point to 5 or 6 guys I've been more disappointed with.
I don't fault him personally for games one and two; he almost single-handedly lost game three however.

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04-17-2012, 12:12 PM
  #138
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I don't fault him personally for games one and two; he almost single-handedly lost game three however.
He made a few miraculous saves in game 1 that kept it from being 6-3. Game 3 aside from the first bouncer, was all on stupid play in front of him allowing tic tac toe cross ice passes and stupid penalties just when we were building momentum (I'm looking at you Kunitz and Letang).

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04-17-2012, 12:35 PM
  #139
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The problem is, a lot of these "chances nobody could stop" are a direct result of his inability to handle the puck. Whether it's simply playing the puck behind the net, or the rebounds he's laying out there into prime scoring areas, the fact is that he's fighting the puck. Has the defense been shoddy? Absolutely. But that doesn't completely let MAF off the hook. His fans like to tout him as an elite goalie. Well elite goalies often bail out their defense. Stopping high quality chances is par for the course. Only making the gimme saves isn't going to cut it. Right now, pretty much every decent chance ends up in our net.

The strange part is, he does make a lot of those tough saves in the regular season. I don't know what the problem is, but he looks like a completely different goalie than he did not very long ago.

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04-17-2012, 01:56 PM
  #140
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Ranger's fan coming in peace. I think MAF is a good goalie, maybe all he needs is a new goalie coach? It seems as tho hes not learning from the mistakes hes making. Benoit Allaire is always working with Hank to sure up parts he is slipping in. Same with Biron.

I would say it seems alot of the Pens fans are jumping on him a bit prematurely. I think MAF is only 27 right? I know every player is different but I think Hank is playing better now that hes 30 than he did when he was younger.

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Old
04-17-2012, 05:50 PM
  #141
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The penguins wouldnt be down 3-0 if we had an elite goalie such as Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas etc. Remember, its not like the flyers have been playing stellar hockey either. The bottom line is, this series would be within grasp if we had someone better than MAF. Whats unstoppable for MAF isnt so for goalies like Lundqvist who has bailed out a mediocre team like the rangers for years now; a team that has been way worse than the penguins these recent years. For what the pens is paying fleury, they could have so much more.

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04-17-2012, 06:06 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by PensMCGF92 View Post
The penguins wouldnt be down 3-0 if we had an elite goalie such as Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas etc. Remember, its not like the flyers have been playing stellar hockey either. The bottom line is, this series would be within grasp if we had someone better than MAF. Whats unstoppable for MAF isnt so for goalies like Lundqvist who has bailed out a mediocre team like the rangers for years now; a team that has been way worse than the penguins these recent years. For what the pens is paying fleury, they could have so much more.
Yup. I really, really implore people to watch some of the other elite goalies in this playoff, even if watching the other games doesn't interest you. Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas, have been awesome. So has Mike Smith and Holtby in Washington. They've made way more big saves than Fleury has. Detroit and Ottawa should both be leading their series 2-1 right now rather than vise versa, but Rinne and Lundqvist were ridiculous in their game 3's.

I just want people to keep the following in mind: Whenever MAF fans and his admirers in the media say "Fleury had to make 5 or 6 big saves..." they're being absolutely dismissive of the work the other names above are doing. Why do you think those others are considered elite, because they make only 2 or 3 big saves a night?

No, it's because their work is so good and more importantly, so CONSISTENT, that it makes the rest of the team and the defense look much better than it actually is.

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04-17-2012, 06:29 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Yup. I really, really implore people to watch some of the other elite goalies in this playoff, even if watching the other games doesn't interest you. Rinne, Lundqvist, Thomas, have been awesome. So has Mike Smith and Holtby in Washington. They've made way more big saves than Fleury has. Detroit and Ottawa should both be leading their series 2-1 right now rather than vise versa, but Rinne and Lundqvist were ridiculous in their game 3's.

I just want people to keep the following in mind: Whenever MAF fans and his admirers in the media say "Fleury had to make 5 or 6 big saves..." they're being absolutely dismissive of the work the other names above are doing. Why do you think those others are considered elite, because they make only 2 or 3 big saves a night?

No, it's because their work is so good and more importantly, so CONSISTENT, that it makes the rest of the team and the defense look much better than it actually is.
It's no use. I've been saying this for a while now and all I get in return is "He faces harder shots!!!" which, as we both know, is based on absolutely nothing other than biased perception. It's like people refuse to accept that other goalies around the league also face breakaways and odd man rushes from time to time.

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04-17-2012, 06:35 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
It's no use. I've been saying this for a while now and all I get in return is "He faces harder shots!!!" which, as we both know, is based on absolutely nothing other than biased perception. It's like people refuse to accept that other goalies around the league also face breakaways and odd man rushes from time to time.
This is my one big issue with Fleury defenders; they make it sound as if Fleury's the only goalie in the league who ever faces difficult shots. Apparently all 39 of those shots Lundqvist faced the other night in the 1-0 win over Ottawa were easy shots from the blueline, with no screen in front of him that he could see all the way.

I know some folks don't want to believe it, but the Penguins aren't the only team in the NHL that gives up multiple scoring chances in a game.

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04-17-2012, 07:01 PM
  #145
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i like fleury and want to see him succeed.

but this series has really soured me on him.

the pens probably shouldnt trade him, but those notions of him being an upper echelon, clutch goalie are BS now.

a lot of people are to blame for this debacle, but he's at the top of the list, probably tied with paul martin.

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04-17-2012, 07:10 PM
  #146
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I've been extremely disappointed in Crosby, Malkin, pretty much the entire defense corps and Fleury.

I don't think I need to say anything else, most people already know why, have stated why in this thread for me as well.

The sooner this series is over, the better. I'd rather turn my focus to something else. The Pens have thoroughly embarrassed themselves in so many ways with this series and with the chirping coaches and players have done about the Pens, they've basically justified in this series. It's one thing when people talk smack about you and you go out and show them you aren't that way, but it's another when you go and live up to that crap.

Pens SHOULD be beating the Flyers, Fleury SHOULD be having a bounce back game after a blow out like he would in 2008 and 2009, but things have changed, those performances seem like they were decades ago rather than years ago. Crosby usually got frustrated in a game and then the next he was all business...instead this year, he's basically lost his crap in all 3 games and is extremely emotional about the Flyers now.

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04-17-2012, 07:16 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Til the End of Time View Post
i like fleury and want to see him succeed.

but this series has really soured me on him.

the pens probably shouldnt trade him, but those notions of him being an upper echelon, clutch goalie are BS now.

a lot of people are to blame for this debacle, but he's at the top of the list, probably tied with paul martin.
All this series has done for me, in regards to Fleury, is realize that this team needs it's "Rask/Schneider/Elliott" as a back-up. Johnny or Thiessen are not capable of being guys that can step up like that, they are relief players for the season, all they can contribute to in the playoffs is in practice.

I would really look into Vokoun or Harding in the summer. A 1a&1b situation.

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04-17-2012, 08:35 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
It's no use. I've been saying this for a while now and all I get in return is "He faces harder shots!!!" which, as we both know, is based on absolutely nothing other than biased perception. It's like people refuse to accept that other goalies around the league also face breakaways and odd man rushes from time to time.
Just finished watching the first. Detroit should be leading 2-0.

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04-17-2012, 11:15 PM
  #149
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Habs fan come in peace, sorry I have nothing to post over at our forum, From what
I've seen Fleury has lost you the series, one horrible game you can live with but back to back terrible outings is unforgivable, the timing of some of these goals has been the real killer. I honestly thought he was gonna bounce back, in game two he was playing pretty solid, but when he let that softy in right after Neil scored on that sick deke, I knew this series was toast. by the way I did cheer for Pitt when they won the cup that year, I'm a big Crosby fan, I think Crosby has ALOT of heart and soul on top of all his talent, and anyone who says hes a whiner is jealous and out to lunch.

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04-17-2012, 11:16 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchy29 View Post
Habs fan come in peace, sorry I have nothing to post over at our forum, From what
I've seen Fleury has lost you the series, one horrible game you can live with but back to back terrible outings is unforgivable, the timing of some of these goals has been the real killer. I honestly thought he was gonna bounce back, in game two he was playing pretty solid, but when he let that softy in right after Neil scored on that sick deke, I knew this series was toast. by the way I did cheer for Pitt when they won the cup that year, I'm a big Crosby fan, I think Crosby has ALOT of heart and soul on top of all his talent, and anyone who says hes a whiner is jealous and out to lunch.
I would say Fleury and our defense are the sole reason. Fleury could have easily stole us 1 or 2 after being up 3-0 and 3-1. That is where #29 has been great all season. Just a damn shame it fell apart at the worst moment.

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