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Will Wellwood Make The Show??

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Old
12-05-2004, 08:07 PM
  #26
Lowetide
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I don't know guys, he looks like a million bucks every time I see him. He's moving up levels and still getting minutes from his coach and having an impact on games. He'll need to improve his play without the puck and maybe always be one slump away from a demotion or trade but he can do some things to help a team win.

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12-05-2004, 08:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins4Ever
Size has nothing to do with talent. It may have something to do with strength, but then how do you explain Theoren Fleury. There are so many great NHLer's who are small, Sergei Samsonov, Martin St. Louis, Steve Sullivan, but size isn't an issue there. So why is it such a big problem here.

He'll be a fine second-third liner, I don't know if he has enough talent to become a full time first liner, but a solid second or third line centre is something really valuable to a team. He'll do just fine.
Every player you named has oustanding skating abilities; Wellwood doesn't. Also, St. Louis is built like a tank. Wellwood needs to build up his strength because he doesn't have the speed to compensate. A more suitable comparison to Wellwood is Ribeiro or Yannic Perrault.

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12-07-2004, 04:38 PM
  #28
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Wellwood will never make it to the NHL. He's too slow, too small and not good enough for the NHL style of game. Secondly you think Quinn had nothing against small players? He traded away Sullivan(70 and 80 point seasons with a bad team like Chicago) and Dempsey(regular ice time with his new team) for a box of Corn Flakes. Where's Alyn McCauley now(5'9")? Why does Antropov get regular ice time even though he played 18 bad games in a row(6'4")? Can you make the correlation? Wellwood has 0.1% chance of playing in the NHL and with Quin as his coach his chances are now a 0.0% chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
Yeah, I'm surprised at all the attention he's receiving all of a sudden. He will be able to make it into the NHL, and to say Quinn didn't like small players...he didn't like Sullivan not because he was small, but I believe because he had attitude. Demsey Im not sure about.

Quinn was the one who signed him, if he didn't see a chance of Wellwood making it, why would he?

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12-07-2004, 05:10 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerpaul
Wellwood will never make it to the NHL. He's too slow, too small and not good enough for the NHL style of game. Secondly you think Quinn had nothing against small players? He traded away Sullivan(70 and 80 point seasons with a bad team like Chicago) and Dempsey(regular ice time with his new team) for a box of Corn Flakes. Where's Alyn McCauley now(5'9")? Why does Antropov get regular ice time even though he played 18 bad games in a row(6'4")? Can you make the correlation? Wellwood has 0.1% chance of playing in the NHL and with Quin as his coach his chances are now a 0.0% chance.
Sullivan is on a bad team because none of the good teams wanted him. He was made available to all the teams in the league at the trading deadline and only Nashville bit. McCauley was given plenty of chances by Quinn, he failed. Dempsey never came to camp in shape and was made available on waivers to the whole league several times, no one took him.

Smaller players like Reichel and Tucker played for Quinn because they did their jobs unlike those guys. If Wellwood does what he is supposed to do, and he is so far, he can play for Quinn any day.

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12-08-2004, 03:04 PM
  #30
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First...No one wants a player that can put up 80 points playing with AHL line-mates? Other teams didn't take him because "the brains" of NHL teams still live in caveman days where size means nearly everything...that's a devate for another day. McCauley wan never really given a fair chance...if he made 1 mistake he was benched or sat out. Tucker's on the team because he's insane and tries to play like a tough guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Sullivan is on a bad team because none of the good teams wanted him. He was made available to all the teams in the league at the trading deadline and only Nashville bit. McCauley was given plenty of chances by Quinn, he failed. Dempsey never came to camp in shape and was made available on waivers to the whole league several times, no one took him.

Smaller players like Reichel and Tucker played for Quinn because they did their jobs unlike those guys. If Wellwood does what he is supposed to do, and he is so far, he can play for Quinn any day.

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12-08-2004, 09:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerpaul
First...No one wants a player that can put up 80 points playing with AHL line-mates? Other teams didn't take him because "the brains" of NHL teams still live in caveman days where size means nearly everything...that's a devate for another day. McCauley wan never really given a fair chance...if he made 1 mistake he was benched or sat out. Tucker's on the team because he's insane and tries to play like a tough guy.
I don't think that I should be arguing with someone who considers guys like Zhamnov and Daze AHL linemates.

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12-14-2004, 05:02 PM
  #32
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All other teams just had to shut down the Sullivan line...and they win. This being the case, Sully still got 80 points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
I don't think that I should be arguing with someone who considers guys like Zhamnov and Daze AHL linemates.

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12-14-2004, 05:32 PM
  #33
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BALCO all the way


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12-14-2004, 05:44 PM
  #34
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can he make it? That is the million dollar quetsion, I think he can but I'm a huge Wellwood fan and Leafs management has said they will give him every oppurtunity to make the big club which is a very good sign.

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12-14-2004, 06:14 PM
  #35
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I've gotten really excited about Wellwood, but if he does make it... he'll score alot and be an awesome top 6 foward, otherwise he won't make it at all.

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12-14-2004, 09:05 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerpaul
All other teams just had to shut down the Sullivan line...and they win. This being the case, Sully still got 80 points.
When the opposing team is already ahead 4-1 they don't spend too much effort shutting down Sullivan's line.

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12-14-2004, 09:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerpaul
First...No one wants a player that can put up 80 points playing with AHL line-mates? Other teams didn't take him because "the brains" of NHL teams still live in caveman days where size means nearly everything...that's a devate for another day. McCauley wan never really given a fair chance...if he made 1 mistake he was benched or sat out. Tucker's on the team because he's insane and tries to play like a tough guy.
Lay off the beer Beerpaul.

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Old
12-14-2004, 11:08 PM
  #38
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i say wellwood play against the roadrunners about a month ago, i definetly didn't see this guy play spectacular at all, at times he was invisible on the ice, he shyed away from any sort of rough stuff, and was terrible in the shoot-out, i know this was only one game but i thought he was medicore at best, he was out played by guys like druken and clark wilm, thats not very promising

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12-15-2004, 04:23 AM
  #39
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Old
12-15-2004, 11:58 AM
  #40
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Why was the opposing team up 4-1?...because they shut Sully and his line down...Recognize!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
When the opposing team is already ahead 4-1 they don't spend too much effort shutting down Sullivan's line.

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12-20-2004, 03:51 AM
  #41
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i saw Wellwood play when the Leafs visited the Roadrunners. Was very impressed by him he played a very solid game and always looked a threat.

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01-16-2005, 02:51 AM
  #42
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There was this ridiculous thread two months ago arguing that Wellwood is similiar to Spezza minus the size. So I'd thought it be interesting to revisit the same question and see how the outlook would drastically differ.

What do you guys think of Wellwood now? Will he still make the NHL?

Just to deflate ANY notion that Wellwood = Spezza:

Spezza = 60 points
Wellwood = 38 points

Those are their AHL stats so far into the season.

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Old
01-16-2005, 03:09 AM
  #43
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Isn't Wellwood injured right now? For some reason, I thought he was.

Anyways, the more I've seen Wellwood this season, the more I think he is a player who just needs to be given an opportunity. Whether he makes the NHL will depend as much on Quinn and Leafs management as it will on Wellwood imo. Pat Quinn as coach could also wind up being the biggest obstacle to him making it. He's not exactly famous for taking risks on players.

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01-21-2005, 06:44 PM
  #44
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awesome skill

Welly is an awesome player, and he is small...er than most players! Then again, look at Ian White for the leafs, and see how awesome he has been lately! He's been playing mad minutes, and doing everything asked of him. Welly may be small, and he's not the greatest skater, but he can do things with the puck that most of the Toronto Maple leafs can't do! I think he would be a more effective offensive player in the NHL because he needs guys with a lot of skill to play with. Mind you, this new line of Welly, Linger and Stajan is awesome, and they should put up mad points. No offense meant to Matty because he's a great player, but if the TML had to call up a player now, Welly has proved himself better than matty so far, but I think Matty is picking up his game, which I'm happy to see.

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Old
01-21-2005, 08:47 PM
  #45
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Having followed Quinn through his entire tenure as the canucks GM, I can support the argument that he does value size a lot... he's done that from day 1 as a canuck gm..

but he has also given small players a chance to succeed... he did that in Vancouver with Ronning. However Quinn doesn't seem to have too much patience with such players - either they step up right away, or he moves on.

Also I disagree with the comments that "many" young players make the NHL, with examples of St. Louis, Fleury, Sullivan, Samsonov, etc being used - this isn't the norm - there are many many more that never make it. When the average NHL size is over 6' it's obvious that the NHL is a game more geared towards bigger players, and clubs give bigger players more chances to make it to the NHL.

Wellwood IMO will get his chance in the NHL, and should get it with the Leafs... but whether he sticks is a different question. My guess is that before he can learn the NHL game, he'll be left on waivers or dealt by Quinn... then get on with another team that will give his "skill" a shot, like a young club that can give a roster spot (avoiding waivers) to a risk player, with a GM that has the patience (and owner's support) to allow a guy like Wellwood to develop.

Wellwood does have a lot going against him... the fact that he lacks size and speed is a huge hurdle to overcome, but not impossible. He definitely has the skill, but there are a lot more top 6 capable players in the NHL already (and many young ones that are getting there), then top 6 spots available, so Wellwood won't have an easy go at it making it to the big leagues.

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01-21-2005, 08:59 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
Having followed Quinn through his entire tenure as the canucks GM, I can support the argument that he does value size a lot... he's done that from day 1 as a canuck gm..

but he has also given small players a chance to succeed... he did that in Vancouver with Ronning. However Quinn doesn't seem to have too much patience with such players - either they step up right away, or he moves on.

Also I disagree with the comments that "many" young players make the NHL, with examples of St. Louis, Fleury, Sullivan, Samsonov, etc being used - this isn't the norm - there are many many more that never make it. When the average NHL size is over 6' it's obvious that the NHL is a game more geared towards bigger players, and clubs give bigger players more chances to make it to the NHL.

Wellwood IMO will get his chance in the NHL, and should get it with the Leafs... but whether he sticks is a different question. My guess is that before he can learn the NHL game, he'll be left on waivers or dealt by Quinn... then get on with another team that will give his "skill" a shot, like a young club that can give a roster spot (avoiding waivers) to a risk player, with a GM that has the patience (and owner's support) to allow a guy like Wellwood to develop.

Wellwood does have a lot going against him... the fact that he lacks size and speed is a huge hurdle to overcome, but not impossible. He definitely has the skill, but there are a lot more top 6 capable players in the NHL already (and many young ones that are getting there), then top 6 spots available, so Wellwood won't have an easy go at it making it to the big leagues.
Quinn isn't the GM any longer however he was the GM when Wellwood was drafted and signed to a pro contract. Ferguson's comments about Wellwood give the impression that he is in the Leafs' future plans.

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01-21-2005, 09:12 PM
  #47
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He's skilled but lacks of size.Higgins isn't that big either but he's playing with grit and determination.He's also a good skater so he has more tools to perform in the NHL then Wellwood.

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01-22-2005, 10:21 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Quinn isn't the GM any longer however he was the GM when Wellwood was drafted and signed to a pro contract. Ferguson's comments about Wellwood give the impression that he is in the Leafs' future plans.
yes, but the question is will Quinn have the patience to see him develop in the Leafs lineup... he hasn't in the past with smaller players.

When (not if IMO) Wellwood comes up, will he make an immediate impact? and if he doesn't, will Quinn give him chances to develop his game? History with Quinn shows he doesn't have a lot of patience with smaller players, especially those who can't skate well either.

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01-22-2005, 11:11 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
yes, but the question is will Quinn have the patience to see him develop in the Leafs lineup... he hasn't in the past with smaller players.

When (not if IMO) Wellwood comes up, will he make an immediate impact? and if he doesn't, will Quinn give him chances to develop his game? History with Quinn shows he doesn't have a lot of patience with smaller players, especially those who can't skate well either.
Wellwood's skating is just fine.

He doesn't have patience with whining players that won't compete, like Steve Sullivan. It has nothing to with how big they are. He can't get by with a lot of small players in the eastern conference because the games are more physical. The western conference is far better suited to guys like Sullivan and McCauley.

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01-22-2005, 12:16 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
Wellwood's skating is just fine.

He doesn't have patience with whining players that won't compete, like Steve Sullivan. It has nothing to with how big they are. He can't get by with a lot of small players in the eastern conference because the games are more physical. The western conference is far better suited to guys like Sullivan and McCauley.
The eastern conference has it's share of smaller players too... for every Sullivan you have a St. Louis that didn't make it in the West, but developed in the East... or Samsonov etc.....

but like I said before, Quinn was very clear that he didn't give small players a lot of chances when he was with Vancouver... the only guy that made it here that played a small player's game was Ronning, and he was a success offensively right from the start.

that's just my experience following Quinn, and he hasn't done anything differently in Toronto that makes me think otherwise. Until he proves differently, I have a feeling that Wellwood won't get many chances to prove himself in Toronto... maybe he comes in and makes an impact right away, in which case Quinn will be fine with him... but if he doesn't - like most young players - than chances are that he gets shipped out.

And it's not that uncommon for most GMs to think this way - not just Quinn.

From all the smaller players mentioned in this thread, nearly all of them were moved to another team (or 2 or 3) before they finally established themselves... in almost every single case, such players take time to develop their NHL games, and their original teams move them before they get a chance with that organization... an exception is Samsonov, but he was also a top 10 pick in his draft year and is a guy that has a higher offensive ceiling than Wellwood does.

This isn't all that surprising. Smaller players usually take longer to develop, and the team that has their rights have tough choices to make, since historically a high percentage of such players don't make it. With the NHL rules of protecting 12 forwards from waivers, it becomes tough for teams to continue developing such players on their NHL squads... larger players get more of a chance because they can usually slide onto the 3rd or 4th units to continue their development there, and aren't such a liability playing that role.

A player like Wellwood is though... he either makes it as a top 6, or doesn't make it - which means that by the time he is no longer waiver exempt, he needs to earn himself a top 6 spot - even tougher on a team like Toronto that seems to always load up on free agents and run with a veteran team.

It's just not as simple as a coach having patience either, without taking into consideration the team that he coaches... Toronto is a tough place to give a kid a chance that has to have a top 6 spot.

Having said that, Wellwood still has a while before waiver egilibity kicks in... and maybe Toronto finally decides it's time to go in a younger direction given the number of vets on that team that are close to done, although Toronto hasn't shown they are a team that is ready to go into a rebuilding route just yet, and depending on the new CBA rules, they could very well replace those outgoing vets with new free agent signings.

Anyways, this debate doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so I guess we just have to agree to disagree here... history though, and the rules for protected lists, and previous development of young players just doesn't point to the chances of a guy like Wellwood cracking it with the Leafs lineup, if and when he does crack the NHL fulltime.

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