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Game 3 Catharsis, Part 2 - Get it All Out, Bra

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Old
04-15-2012, 11:54 PM
  #51
SirBrad
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people hate Sid to begin with, they're really gonna hate the new hardas tell it like it is Sid.

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04-15-2012, 11:57 PM
  #52
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I'm obviously contributing nothing new here but I need to vent. This team needs to be blown up, aside from the core. Start with the coaching staff. Bylsma and company are totally lost.

Orpik, Michalek, Martin, Sullivan, Cooke, Kennedy, Adams, Asham, Lovejoy, etc. all need to go. See who you can sell at the draft and free cap space.

Retool the team on July 1st and give younger guys like Tangradi a real chance to play.

This team as currently constructed is not hungry anymore. We need new blood and a new system.

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Old
04-16-2012, 12:03 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I'm obviously contributing nothing new here but I need to vent. This team needs to be blown up, aside from the core. Start with the coaching staff. Bylsma and company are totally lost.

Orpik, Michalek, Martin, Sullivan, Cooke, Kennedy, Adams, Asham, Lovejoy, etc. all need to go. See who you can sell at the draft and free cap space.

Retool the team on July 1st and give younger guys like Tangradi a real chance to play.

This team as currently constructed is not hungry anymore. We need new blood and a new system.
I agree with this, but I think Orpik needs to go, as well. The guy talks all this trash about how the team needs to be better, he never calls himself out individually while all he does is take himself out of plays with stupid hits, where he usually misses. His whining after every penalty he takes is also annoying. Forget his physical presence that he brings, it usually only takes him out of position.

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Old
04-16-2012, 12:08 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I'm obviously contributing nothing new here but I need to vent. This team needs to be blown up, aside from the core. Start with the coaching staff. Bylsma and company are totally lost.

Orpik, Michalek, Martin, Sullivan, Cooke, Kennedy, Adams, Asham, Lovejoy, etc. all need to go. See who you can sell at the draft and free cap space.

Retool the team on July 1st and give younger guys like Tangradi a real chance to play.

This team as currently constructed is not hungry anymore. We need new blood and a new system.
Getting rid of all those guys...there aren't enough trades for good UFA signings available to even come close to putting a decent team on the ice.

Get rid of Martin and Orpik, let the UFA's walk, resign Nisky. Bring in a top 6 winger and a backup goalie.

That would be about the extent of the shake up you need.

Sadly...what we all need to be prepared for:

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Sullivan-Crosby-Dupuis
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Park-Vitale-Adams

Letang-Orpik
Martin-Michalek
Lovejoy-Engo

MAF
Random $550k back up/Theissen

There is about a 80-90% chance that this will be our starting lineup next year...

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Old
04-16-2012, 12:09 AM
  #55
Vega
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Oh believe me, Orpik is the first guy I'd get rid of. Despite, his horrid play this year I still think he has a lot of value and appeal to other teams. I'd try to get a high pick for him at the draft for sure.

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04-16-2012, 12:30 AM
  #56
Clarence Beeks
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Originally Posted by Vega View Post
I'm obviously contributing nothing new here but I need to vent. This team needs to be blown up, aside from the core. Start with the coaching staff. Bylsma and company are totally lost.

Orpik, Michalek, Martin, Sullivan, Cooke, Kennedy, Adams, Asham, Lovejoy, etc. all need to go. See who you can sell at the draft and free cap space.

Retool the team on July 1st and give younger guys like Tangradi a real chance to play.

This team as currently constructed is not hungry anymore. We need new blood and a new system.
I completely agree with this, but for a different reason. This is a team that won the Cup THREE YEARS AGO, but only has 11(!) players who have won a Cup on the roster. Seriously, how the heck do you turn over well over fifty percent of a roster, or a championship team, in less than three years? I hadn't realized this until tonight, but I was flabbergasted when I heard it.

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04-16-2012, 12:36 AM
  #57
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At the very least, if both Martin and Orpik are back in a Pens uniform next season, I'll have lost a lot of confidence in Shero's ability to recognize a team weakness and improve it. That top four simply is making too much money, for too little actual performance on the ice. So at least one (hopefully two) of them need to be moved, and that money used to improve the defense corps by bringing in guys who can actually DEFEND. Martin is as soft as wet tissue paper, and was making way too many mistakes, and Orpik is the hockey-IQ equivalent of a remedial student. Michalek is a close third, but of the three (along with Orpik and Martin) he bugs me the least.

I also think it's time to stop wasting roster spots on veterans who add nothing other than veteran leadership. Guys like Richard Park, Craig Adams, etc. should be gone so that youngsters like Tangradi, Jeffrey, etc. can be worked into the lineup on a regular basis, not just when injuries decimate the team.

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04-16-2012, 01:00 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Clarence Beeks View Post
I agree with pretty much all of this. The only thing I want to add is that it frustrates me TO NO END that they are making a huge deal out of the Neal hit on Couturier when Schenn did THE EXACT SAME THING on the hit (I forget who it was on now) that Asham was responding to. Charging? Check. Left his feet? Check. Hit to the head? Check. Outrage from Emerick, Pierre, Milbury and Jones? Er... derp...
Let me make this clear, I am NOT trying to start anything. But that comparison of Schenn and Neal is flat out ignorant.

Neal's hit on Couturier was interference, was charging and it's arguable that it was to the head.

Charging is extremely subjective when the player doesn't leave his feet. Schenn took two strides before essentially gliding into Martin. But he absolutely did not leave his feet or hit the head.

You can bash the NBC crew all you want, but they weren't the only ones who thought it was clean. The TSN guys felt the same way

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04-16-2012, 01:03 AM
  #59
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The other boards abundance of pure Penguin hate make me pray that Pens come back and take it in 7...that would be the ultimate troll of the league. The hate would be uncanny!

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:10 AM
  #60
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Getting rid of all those guys...there aren't enough trades for good UFA signings available to even come close to putting a decent team on the ice.
Eh. I don't know if Shero goes that route, but a CBA year is absolutely the year to do it. Any new deal causes every team to require imminent transactions of one form or another.

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Old
04-16-2012, 01:44 AM
  #61
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+Flyers fan tried to act smart when I jurped about the Pens winning with a man to man defense and Byslma runs a zone defense. "This ain't basketball...". Yerp, thanks for the hint.


-This is a joke. Take a page from the Flyers. Blow it up. Send Paul "Too comfortable to play real hockey" Martin and the homeless mans "Z" packing. There needs to be some accountability. Those contracts have always smelled different than this organizations usual business of late and they are now proven wrong. I want them both gone and replaced by youth that wants a job.

-Rinaldo. Get him out of the league. If he isn't suspended the league is a joke... again.

--Feels like the wrong forces are once again at work in how the NHL game is played and portrayed. I'm a hockey fan not a professional wrestling fan. **** you NHL.

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04-16-2012, 01:54 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by orangecrush8 View Post
Let me make this clear, I am NOT trying to start anything. But that comparison of Schenn and Neal is flat out ignorant.

Neal's hit on Couturier was interference, was charging and it's arguable that it was to the head.

Charging is extremely subjective when the player doesn't leave his feet. Schenn took two strides before essentially gliding into Martin. But he absolutely did not leave his feet or hit the head.

You can bash the NBC crew all you want, but they weren't the only ones who thought it was clean. The TSN guys felt the same way
Sounds perfectly innocent to me...

Go argue that on the main board, maybe someone will care.

Btw, not agreeing or disagreeing, but people that claim they are not trying to start something are so annoying, just own it, dude. Your post won't change his mind.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:09 AM
  #63
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our PP is a joke. too many players wanting to touch the puck in the middle of the ice. The puck always seems to be up high and we don't do well digging it out. So they force us high, we make a mistake and another shortie. We need more digging on the PP.

- our PK ...see any effort to block shots? they stand around and watch they play. Orpik is down right bad ... he looks like a fan with the best seats in the house out there. He isn't getting anywhere near the shooting or passing lanes.

- Martin - I saw him do a good stick check today ... other than that I couldn't say where he is even near a 5 million dollar defenceman.

-MAF is trying to cover all the mistakes of the defence so he over plays and is rushing things. no calmness in his play because the team in front of him is sucking in support. they are hanging him out to dry and he isn't doing anything to bail the team out.

- forwards on the backcheck. no puck support. Our defencemen suck but their jobs are made harder by forwards not in support in the backcheck. Philly gets endless rushes where our forwards are all running back to get into play and they all seem to be lost.

- swagger it is all gone. They don't believe they can hold onto a 1 goal lead. no chance in hell they can win until that mind set is changed. If you get a goal up in the playoffs you should be able to hold onto it.

+ we scored 4 goals. offense is not a problem.

If there is one year where trading Martin and Orpik could work it will be the start of next season. We have lots of young guys that we could lose while two oder guys sucking. Trade them both if we can ... those NTC scare me. If we get swept then Shero better do something because I will not be happy if he lets all those young defencemen we have been develop go.

I would ask the players to waive their NTC and get their ass out. Bring in some youth and be ready to trade an assest at the next deadline to build up the defence. MAF only works well when he has a backup that challenges him.

With the forwards I would let all UFA's go and look into trading Kenndy. Cooke, Duper and even adams are key parts of our once good pk. I would bring these guys in at the start of the year and have the 2nd pk unit with young guys so they learn the ropes in the nhl.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:09 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence Beeks View Post
I agree with pretty much all of this. The only thing I want to add is that it frustrates me TO NO END that they are making a huge deal out of the Neal hit on Couturier when Schenn did THE EXACT SAME THING on the hit (I forget who it was on now) that Asham was responding to. Charging? Check. Left his feet? Check. Hit to the head? Check. Outrage from Emerick, Pierre, Milbury and Jones? Er... derp...
uh, not even close... When Schenn "charged" at least the puck was still in the vicinity of who he hit...

Look, I understand seeing things from your groups perceptive, I can actually see a few of your fans arguments from the outside, so I know if I was a Pens fan I would see more... But, the Asham hit and the Neal hit on Cout just can't happen...

I'm hoping for a clean game 4 where both sides showcase their amazing offensive players with little to no shenanigans.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:40 AM
  #65
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I don't get why is Michalek criticized together with the rest of you defense. Did u guys notice he's the only one + player on your team with +3? I know that +- doesn't say much, but if the rest sucks in that + big TOI, it shows something.

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Old
04-16-2012, 02:42 AM
  #66
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michalek- our best d-man in PO

I am tired to see some of you talking about how Z is playing terrible hockey. He has been our best d-man in first round. I have to admitt that he is playing softly. Compared to Frosby he is more valuable though.

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04-16-2012, 03:10 AM
  #67
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I think the difference here is depth.

Notice the flyers have a large advantage in the Third period. The pens havent scored once in the third and the Flyers have gone to town in the third.

The flyers roll out 4 scoring lines, which is unheard of, and no matter what you do you have to put out your third pairing to eat some minutes, and a team like the flyers can do damage to a third pairing. This is what happened to us when we played the Blackhawks. Pronger and Kimmo had to play 30 minutes apiece and we got worn out by their depth.

I think this series provides some insight on how to play in the New NHL, depth is so key.

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Old
04-16-2012, 03:21 AM
  #68
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So actually our plan is to win the next 3 games, and then blow out again in game #7.

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04-16-2012, 04:09 AM
  #69
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Frosby...Heh

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04-16-2012, 05:11 AM
  #70
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Honestly, to me, that Neal hit looked like two guys not looking, and then running into each other. I know when I played and something like that happened, the natural reaction was to jump. It gets your skates off the ice, and you can better go for a ride.

I just think Couturier was standing on the tracks when the train was coming through, and he took the worst of it. It really didn't look like a targeted hit to me. It looked like they ran into eachother and Neal was able to brace himself. Couturier wasn't.

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Old
04-16-2012, 05:13 AM
  #71
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I think I'm one of the few tour rats on this board, but still an appropriate tune:



Just as an aside, this was an awesome show, Marsalis sat in for both sets. MSG was under renovations at the time and I wound up getting in without a ticket. Ahhhh ... my misspent youth
Right on. For some reason the song that's been playing in my head watching clowns like Bylsma, Martin, Orpik, etc is 'He's Gone'.

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Old
04-16-2012, 05:23 AM
  #72
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It is rare that you can get every negative analysis/word of caution you've made over three seasons confirmed in three games, but I find myself mentally checking all boxes here. There's nothing new in any of the things killing us, we're just seeing every weakness we have exploited simultaneously. A perfect storm.

We can ditch various players for good or bad reasons, and like everyone else I have some I'd rather see the back of. But it all starts with the coach, because there is simply no way our roster - focusing here on the D primarily - is this bad player by player. While clearly we have brought in players who were not ideal fits considering the qualities we were short on, the pairings we have usually been running have made it even worse. Further, there is no way our defenders individually should look like dilettantes, and whether we want to talk about 'system', neutral zone coverage, defending against the rush or making defensive adjustments to opponents absolutely shredding our weaknesses come play off time, this is certainly something falling under the purview of our most honorable DHCB.

We're getting destroyed in a series where we've had the lead in every game, in both the first ones even multi-goal leads, and where we've scored 4 goals per game. It is inconceivable - even if Saint Fleury has again been putting forth his most demoralisingly decrepit version of himself when the opposite was most needed (seriously, what could we have needed less at 1-0 up and on the PP in Philly than Fleury taking a soft wayward shot and literally throwing it into his own net... I twisted my ankle kicking the couch after that and just knew it would totally deflate the team. The rest of the period they had nothing... and we've seen this kind of horror goals too often).

Anyway, Dan Bylsma to me needs no more opportunities to prove that he is a playoff liability. He might be a great HR manager, putting in place structures people like to work in etc. But being a manager of people, I also know that there's a major difference between managing business as usual operations and motivating/coaching people to perform during crisis and peak pressure, not to mention making tough decisions when key staff **** up or underperform. Bylsma is still sort of green as an NHL coach; maybe he will add what he doesn't already have.... I just hope we aren't going to gamble on him growing up for us to make good on our talent.

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04-16-2012, 05:23 AM
  #73
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So actually our plan is to win the next 3 games, and then blow out again in game #7.
Well, it's better that loseing 4-0, which is what is going to happen. The Pens have only gotten worse since game 1. For some reason they are so frustrated they can't play properly anymore. There is no game plan whatsoever, which is the coaching staff's fault

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04-16-2012, 05:33 AM
  #74
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Am I the only one who is thinking that things will be very interesting come July 1?

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04-16-2012, 05:53 AM
  #75
Ogrezilla
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people hate Sid to begin with, they're really gonna hate the new hardas tell it like it is Sid.
I hope that this is the new Sid. He's going all honey badger

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