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Game 3 Catharsis, Part 2 - Get it All Out, Bra

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04-16-2012, 11:07 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
What the ****? You can clearly see Crosby ask Schenn if he wants to go and Schenn declines. I mean we're not talking about some debatable thing here. You can watch it happen clearly in the footage of the scrum. Seriously, it's almost unbelievable how some of you will just flat out deny that something happened right before your eyes just because it doesn't fit your narrative.
is he asking him for a date? if you really want to go you drop the gloves and go. it's not that hard. does every fight start with a quick Q&A to make sure everyone is on board?

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04-16-2012, 11:08 AM
  #102
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One moment does not a narrative make. Do you really want me to post a blow-by-blow of the entire game? Or I could post some links to Philadelphia media accounts? Or PITTSBURGH media accounts?

My point is that something really was different this game. That's all. This is not just the normal media pile-on on Crosby. Asking Schenn to go doesn't change that, which is why I didn't bother to include a footnote acknowledging it.
So your main gripe is that he didn't "man up" and fight and the fact that he did ask Schenn to go doesn't change anything? So let's get this straight. Crosby not fighting despite asking someone to go means he's not "manning up", but Schenn also not fighting and backing down from a fight is perfectly acceptable. And this doesn't sound like the typical anti-Crosby double standard bs to you?

Or is this some kind of "Crosby needed to answer for stuff!" thing? So Schenn has been a perfect angel who shouldn't have to "man up" for anything? If I remember correctly, he threw a cheap shot at Crosby's back not long ago. Here was his chance to "man up" and answer for it, right? Give me a break. You're viewing this through black and orange glasses. Crosby lost his composure. No denying that. But painting him as the only one engaging in chippy play is laughable. There were a number of people playing chippy who not only didn't fight, but didn't even try to fight. Perhaps we should start with them first, no?

It's a game that got out of hand. It happens. Many were involved and yet, here you are, singling out Crosby. So I ask again, this doesn't sound like the typical anti-Crosby nonsense to you?

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04-16-2012, 11:11 AM
  #103
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is he asking him for a date? if you really want to go you drop the gloves and go. it's not that hard. does every fight start with a quick Q&A to make sure everyone is on board?
Oh so it's more respectable to just jump someone and sucker them then? See me, I think it's far more respectable to actually make sure your opponent is up for it and ready. It's funny though. I remember a fight some years ago off a face off where Crosby didn't wait to "ask" the guy he was fighting. Ever since then, all we've heard is that he is cheap for jumping his opponent. Interesting how the rules change with each passing confrontation for Crosby.

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04-16-2012, 11:12 AM
  #104
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You said he was NOT FIGHTING, when he clearly wanted to, I don't see how you can blame hin for not fighting when Schenn is the one that declined. It's not like he's going to fight somebody in a different weight class.

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04-16-2012, 11:13 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
So your main gripe is that he didn't "man up" and fight and the fact that he did ask Schenn to go doesn't change anything? So let's get this straight. Crosby not fighting despite asking someone to go means he's not "manning up", but Schenn also not fighting and backing down from a fight is perfectly acceptable. And this doesn't sound like the typical anti-Crosby double standard bs to you?

Or is this some kind of "Crosby needed to answer for stuff!" thing? So Schenn has been a perfect angel who shouldn't have to "man up" for anything? If I remember correctly, he threw a cheap shot at Crosby's back not long ago. Here was his chance to "man up" and answer for it, right? Give me a break. You're viewing this through black and orange glasses. Crosby lost his composure. No denying that. But painting him as the only one engaging in chippy play is laughable. There were a number of people playing chippy who not only didn't fight, but didn't even try to fight. Perhaps we should start with them first, no?

It's a game that got out of hand. It happens. Many were involved and yet, here you are, singling out Crosby. So I ask again, this doesn't sound like the typical anti-Crosby nonsense to you?
Again, it's not only the Schenn episode. As you say, he lost his composure - for the entire game. And I agree that (especially in the playoffs) everyone plays chippy. But Crosby was all over the ice, starting lots of stuff - he himself said after the game that he was trying to get the team going (too bad it totally backfired).

The only thing I was commenting on, and - I think - the only thing we're disagreeing on is if Crosby deserves the heat he's taking.

And he is taking heat. If I'm viewing this through black and orange glasses, so is every major Penguins blog. But then, HFBoards is always the last hold out.

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04-16-2012, 11:19 AM
  #106
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Again, it's not only the Schenn episode. As you say, he lost his composure - for the entire game. And I agree that (especially in the playoffs) everyone plays chippy. But Crosby was all over the ice, starting lots of stuff - he himself said after the game that he was trying to get the team going (too bad it totally backfired).

The only thing I was commenting on, and - I think - the only thing we're disagreeing on is if Crosby deserves the heat he's taking.

And he is taking heat. If I'm viewing this through black and orange glasses, so is every major Penguins blog. But then, HFBoards is always the last hold out.
Fair enough. We're not going to agree here so we'll just leave it at that. I will say one thing though, I would take what the Pittsburgh media/blogs say with a grain of salt. We're on the verge of being swept in the worst possible fashion. Right now, everyone on the team is a target. Malkin is a lousy MVP who disappears, Bylsma needs fired, Fleury is a playoff choker, Crosby is losing his cool, etc. The media is often just as reactionary as the loons on the main board. Especially after terrible losses.

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04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #107
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Again, it's not only the Schenn episode. As you say, he lost his composure - for the entire game. And I agree that (especially in the playoffs) everyone plays chippy. But Crosby was all over the ice, starting lots of stuff - he himself said after the game that he was trying to get the team going (too bad it totally backfired).
So what's the problem then? He was trying to fire up his teammates. It didnt work obviously but atleast he tried. Better than doing nothing like Malkin

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04-16-2012, 11:20 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Oh so it's more respectable to just jump someone and sucker them then? See me, I think it's far more respectable to actually make sure your opponent is up for it and ready. It's funny though. I remember a fight some years ago off a face off where Crosby didn't wait to "ask" the guy he was fighting. Ever since then, all we've heard is that he is cheap for jumping his opponent. Interesting how the rules change with each passing confrontation for Crosby.
respectable? there was little respectable in that game. it's not a jump, you push yourself away from the linesman (see Hartnell and Adams) you drop your gloves and Schenn would have absolutely obliged. It's not that hard it happens 500+ times a year.

Just don't act like he really wanted a piece of him...if he did they would have fought.

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04-16-2012, 11:22 AM
  #109
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Nick Kypreos ‏ @RealKyper Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
#SNPlayoffs breaking news. #Penguins Neal will have 2 separate #NHL discipline hearings Tues 10am. Asham will follow with in person @ 11am
So, here we go

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04-16-2012, 11:22 AM
  #110
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respectable? there was little respectable in that game. it's not a jump, you push yourself away from the linesman (see Hartnell and Adams) you drop your gloves and Schenn would have absolutely obliged. It's not that hard it happens 500+ times a year.

Just don't act like he really wanted a piece of him...if he did they would have fought.
Well when Crosby asked Schenn, why didn't he do exactly as you described? Why didn't he back up and drop his gloves is he was willing to oblige Crosby? Uh oh, this wouldn't be the HFBoards double standard creeping back in would it?

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04-16-2012, 11:23 AM
  #111
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So, here we go
why does Neal have 2 hearings? cant they just do both at once?

maybe he'll get 2 $2500 fines lol

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04-16-2012, 11:25 AM
  #112
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why does Neal have 2 hearings? cant they just do both at once?
I would guess that it will be one phone call but each hit will reviewed and up for SD as separate incidents.

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04-16-2012, 11:26 AM
  #113
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why does Neal have 2 hearings? cant they just do both at once?
One to punish him for his hit and one to comment on how nice his hair is. Standard NHL protocol.

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04-16-2012, 11:28 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Well when Crosby asked Schenn, why didn't he do exactly as you described? Why didn't he back up and drop his gloves is he was willing to oblige Crosby? Uh oh, this wouldn't be the HFBoards double standard creeping back in would it?
your assertion is that Crosby really wanted to go with him and what I'm saying is that if really wanted to fight he would have. It's not a debate, you don't need talk and permission. The Flyers for the most part weren't initiating, it was largely the Pens unraveling throughout the game. For once the Flyers took the highroad.

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04-16-2012, 11:32 AM
  #115
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Fair enough. We're not going to agree here so we'll just leave it at that. I will say one thing though, I would take what the Pittsburgh media/blogs say with a grain of salt. We're on the verge of being swept in the worst possible fashion. Right now, everyone on the team is a target. Malkin is a lousy MVP who disappears, Bylsma needs fired, Fleury is a playoff choker, Crosby is losing his cool, etc. The media is often just as reactionary as the loons on the main board. Especially after terrible losses.
That's a very good point. Especially baffling is the anti-Malkin talk, imo.

Anyway, pleasure discussing with you. I don't come over here to stir stuff up, honest, so I appreciate it!

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04-16-2012, 11:37 AM
  #116
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your assertion is that Crosby really wanted to go with him and what I'm saying is that if really wanted to fight he would have. It's not a debate, you don't need talk and permission. The Flyers for the most part weren't initiating, it was largely the Pens unraveling throughout the game. For once the Flyers took the highroad.
Ah, so your argument is based on knowing what was going on in someone else's mind. Gotcha. I'll stick to the "he asked him to fight, so he must have been prepared to fight" theory that's based on, you know, what actually happened. I'll leave the mind reading to you.

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04-16-2012, 11:39 AM
  #117
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That's a very good point. Especially baffling is the anti-Malkin talk, imo.

Anyway, pleasure discussing with you. I don't come over here to stir stuff up, honest, so I appreciate it!
Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe because so many times this season Malkin has turned what looked to be certain losses into wins, often in the last seconds of play, that we've come to expect Geno to save the day. Sad thing is, he's got 4 points so far this series and has been making more of an effort than he's being credited for.

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04-16-2012, 11:44 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Ah, so your argument is based on knowing what was going on in someone else's mind. Gotcha. I'll stick to the "he asked him to fight, so he must have been prepared to fight" theory that's based on, you know, what actually happened. I'll leave the mind reading to you.
There is no answer that will please people who have a pre-determined belief of the party in question.

If he jumps him, he's a punk. If he asks schenn and schenn declines he's a punk. It doesn't matter, regardless he'll be a punk.

I guess if you "admit" that Crosby is a punk, that will be the only agreement you'll get.

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04-16-2012, 11:46 AM
  #119
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Yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe because so many times this season Malkin has turned what looked to be certain losses into wins, often in the last seconds of play, that we've come to expect Geno to save the day. Sad thing is, he's got 4 points so far this series and has been making more of an effort than he's being credited for.
It's tough. When you're in the spotlight you often get too much or too little credit. His production is lacking but not bad. Like most of our forwards though he needs to be more visible shift in, shift out. That goes for his linemates too though. Also the Flyers are crowding Malkin any time he touches the puck. No one is doing anything to counter this, players and coaches alike. Given everything that's gone on in this series and the number of complaints I have, I'll get over what he's done/hasn't done.

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04-16-2012, 11:50 AM
  #120
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It's tough. When you're in the spotlight you often get too much or too little credit. His production is lacking but not bad. Like most of our forwards though he needs to be more visible shift in, shift out. That goes for his linemates too though. Also the Flyers are crowding Malkin any time he touches the puck. No one is doing anything to counter this, players and coaches alike. Given everything that's gone on in this series and the number of complaints I have, I'll get over what he's done/hasn't done.
Yeah, Malkin isn't the reason why we are losing games.

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04-16-2012, 12:09 PM
  #121
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Yeah, Malkin isn't the reason why we are losing games.
I've said it a few times, but giving up 8 goals in back to back games isn't one guy not pulling his weight. It's a perfect storm of pretty much all the impact players playing their worst hockey at the same time. Anybody that is putting everything on Malkin, or Fleury, or Martin is clearly not watching the same series I'm watching.

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04-16-2012, 12:31 PM
  #122
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Two separate hearings for Neal? So one for the hit on Couturier and one for the hit on Giroux? Seriously?

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04-16-2012, 12:34 PM
  #123
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I've said it a few times, but giving up 8 goals in back to back games isn't one guy not pulling his weight. It's a perfect storm of pretty much all the impact players playing their worst hockey at the same time. Anybody that is putting everything on Malkin, or Fleury, or Martin is clearly not watching the same series I'm watching.
While I agree with this, you still have to make changes in the off-season. And those that crapped the bed most in this series are more susceptible for change than others, imo.

And no, I am not advocating trading Malkin. Last thing HF boards needs is to re-open that can of worms. Geno needs to step up in Game 4, but he is part of the solution.

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04-16-2012, 12:34 PM
  #124
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is he asking him for a date? if you really want to go you drop the gloves and go. it's not that hard. does every fight start with a quick Q&A to make sure everyone is on board?
And then he's a ***** for jumping Schenn or he drops his gloves and Schenn skates away and Sid gets an extra penalty. He can't win either way.

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04-16-2012, 12:35 PM
  #125
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For the first time since I started watching Crosby play, I can say that he looked like a sore loser out there and he was doing things that just clearly were not going to get under the Flyers' skin. As I said, this was the first game that I have ever seen where somebody criticizing him would be very justified.

I don't say this because I care about the things that he did. He just didn't do a good job of keeping his composure and being a good captain. He should have known after the first two or three incidents that he wasn't getting his team going by doing that.

The whole team just looked sad.

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