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Do you think that without Bonk and Kovy ,We'd still be able to make the playoffs?

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Old
12-05-2004, 01:41 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan
What are you kidding.... Belfour wont last the season with his wonky back... once your back is screwed up its always screwed up.... Face it Toronto is on its way down to the bottom where they truly belong....
Ok.

Well, I see what you're up to, so...

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12-05-2004, 01:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan
What are you kidding.... Belfour wont last the season with his wonky back... once your back is screwed up its always screwed up.... Face it Toronto is on its way down to the bottom where they truly belong....
Did you even bother to read the last two posts? Belfour had SURGERY to fix the problem IN HIS BACK (I'll put it in a more easier way for you to understand - THE BACK PROBLEMS WILL NOT OCCUR ANYMORE). There, get it?

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12-05-2004, 01:54 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Did you even bother to read the last two posts? Belfour had SURGERY to fix the problem IN HIS BACK (I'll put it in a more easier way for you to understand - THE BACK PROBLEMS WILL NOT OCCUR ANYMORE). There, get it?
Leaf fans will be holding their breath....

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12-05-2004, 01:55 PM
  #29
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You can't just say it isn't a concern anymore. I mean, look at our own Sheldon Souray, he has been operated on HOW many times in his wrist alone?

Wait a second...he must of been lying about it all this time, because I mean - if you have surgery once you'll never need it again

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12-05-2004, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Did you even bother to read the last two posts? Belfour had SURGERY to fix the problem IN HIS BACK (I'll put it in a more easier way for you to understand - THE BACK PROBLEMS WILL NOT OCCUR ANYMORE). There, get it?
That's just silly. Back surgery helps, but it isn't a magic cure-all. He's definately still a higher risk of a back injury than most.

Not that his back is what worries me about Belfour, or the Leafs. I hate to sound like one of the masses, but it's definately go to be age. I mean if hockey doesn't start until next season, just take a look at how old some of your guys are gonna be:

Roberts 39
Leetch 37
Francis 42
Belfour 40
Newendyk 38 (very close to 39)
Mogilny 36

Now that is just plain old for hockey players, and all of those guys play significant roles with your club. I mean those are what? Your top 2 wingers (unless you put Nolan above roberts, then it's 1 and 3) Starting goalie, number 1 or 2 defenseman, and number 2 and 3 centers. That's just massive. Some of these guys are going to have to decline next season. Not everyone can play into their late 30's as if nothing has changed.

The standard reply to this is that the Leafs are always just going to replace whoever they loose from the UFA market. Problem there is there could very well be a cap next year, so the leafs might not have enough $$$ to throw at UFAs to fill all the holes.

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12-05-2004, 02:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
That's just silly. Back surgery helps, but it isn't a magic cure-all. He's definately still a higher risk of a back injury than most.

Not that his back is what worries me about Belfour, or the Leafs. I hate to sound like one of the masses, but it's definately go to be age. I mean if hockey doesn't start until next season, just take a look at how old some of your guys are gonna be:

Roberts 39
Leetch 37
Francis 42
Belfour 40
Newendyk 38 (very close to 39)
Mogilny 36

Now that is just plain old for hockey players, and all of those guys play significant roles with your club. I mean those are what? Your top 2 wingers (unless you put Nolan above roberts, then it's 1 and 3) Starting goalie, number 1 or 2 defenseman, and number 2 and 3 centers. That's just massive. Some of these guys are going to have to decline next season. Not everyone can play into their late 30's as if nothing has changed.

The standard reply to this is that the Leafs are always just going to replace whoever they loose from the UFA market. Problem there is there could very well be a cap next year, so the leafs might not have enough $$$ to throw at UFAs to fill all the holes.
Sorry, I meant that the possibility of an injury occuring to the back of Eddie is significantly lower. But that is beside the point- even with the age of the Leaf players, the Habs will still lag behind the Leafs in the standings.

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12-05-2004, 02:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
That's just silly. Back surgery helps, but it isn't a magic cure-all. He's definately still a higher risk of a back injury than most.

Not that his back is what worries me about Belfour, or the Leafs. I hate to sound like one of the masses, but it's definately go to be age. I mean if hockey doesn't start until next season, just take a look at how old some of your guys are gonna be:

Roberts 39
Leetch 37
Francis 42
Belfour 40
Newendyk 38 (very close to 39)
Mogilny 36

Now that is just plain old for hockey players, and all of those guys play significant roles with your club. I mean those are what? Your top 2 wingers (unless you put Nolan above roberts, then it's 1 and 3) Starting goalie, number 1 or 2 defenseman, and number 2 and 3 centers. That's just massive. Some of these guys are going to have to decline next season. Not everyone can play into their late 30's as if nothing has changed.

The standard reply to this is that the Leafs are always just going to replace whoever they loose from the UFA market. Problem there is there could very well be a cap next year, so the leafs might not have enough $$$ to throw at UFAs to fill all the holes.
First thing first, ron Francis is no longer with Toronto.

As for the rest of it... it's not an ideal situation to be in, but those older players on the roster are the kind of guys that are still very good hockey players. Nieuwendyk's play improved last season... so did Roberts', Leetch was elite, etc... there's no reason to think 1 more year is going to do them all in.

Not to sound like a troll, but I'll take any of those guys you listed over any of the Habs forwards except for maybe Saku... especially in the playoffs. Nieuwendyk, Mogilny, Roberts, Leetch, and Belfour are gold in the postseason, and to say "they can get injured" is true, but so can Bonk, Theodore, Koivu, etc...

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12-05-2004, 02:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
(I'll put it in a more easier way for you to understand - THE BACK PROBLEMS WILL NOT OCCUR ANYMORE).

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
the possibility of an injury occuring to the back of Eddie is significantly lower.

Hmm.

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Old
12-05-2004, 02:20 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Sorry, I meant that the possibility of an injury occuring to the back of Eddie is significantly lower. But that is beside the point- even with the age of the Leaf players, the Habs will still lag behind the Leafs in the standings.
Ahh, bitter Hab fans... nothing like it

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12-05-2004, 03:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Ahh, bitter Hab fans... nothing like it

And what would any of us have to be bitter about? Star goaltending, captain made of gold, or one of the best mixes of current success with prospect depth? Go spin your yarn elsewhere Grandpa Leafs

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12-05-2004, 03:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Ahh, bitter Hab fans... nothing like it
Back to the leaf board, sonny!

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12-05-2004, 03:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BLONG7
Back to the leaf board, sonny!
I don't think he's a Leaf fan.

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12-05-2004, 04:59 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Trevor Kidd is no longer with the Leafs.

Toronto's goaltending situation is as good as Montreal's, if not better.

Ed Belfour - Jose Theodore
JS Aubin - Cristobal Huet
Mikael Tellqvist - Yann Danis

And with Belfour's offseason surgery to his back, he's healed and is ready to start the season.
That is laughable :lol

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12-05-2004, 05:00 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Did you even bother to read the last two posts? Belfour had SURGERY to fix the problem IN HIS BACK (I'll put it in a more easier way for you to understand - THE BACK PROBLEMS WILL NOT OCCUR ANYMORE). There, get it?
How old is he? 38?

Toronto would be better with aging Hasek...

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12-05-2004, 05:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudNine
Even with the old team Toronto has now, they're still better than the Habs.
are you Don Cherry ?

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Old
12-05-2004, 06:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
That is laughable :lol
What?

Seriously?

Ed Belfour, JS Aubin, and Mikael Tellqvist is easily as good as Jose Theodore, Cristobal Huet, and Yann Danis.

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12-05-2004, 06:03 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
First thing first, ron Francis is no longer with Toronto.

As for the rest of it... it's not an ideal situation to be in, but those older players on the roster are the kind of guys that are still very good hockey players. Nieuwendyk's play improved last season... so did Roberts', Leetch was elite, etc... there's no reason to think 1 more year is going to do them all in.

Not to sound like a troll, but I'll take any of those guys you listed over any of the Habs forwards except for maybe Saku... especially in the playoffs. Nieuwendyk, Mogilny, Roberts, Leetch, and Belfour are gold in the postseason, and to say "they can get injured" is true, but so can Bonk, Theodore, Koivu, etc...
I didn't realise Fancis was gone, but it doesn't shock me either. It's more than a year too, it's more like two. Two seasons, anyways. A year and a half, I guess.

You'd take a 42 yeard old Francis over the likes of Ribs, Ryder, Zednik, Bonk?

Leaf fans are going to have to come to grips with their team not being a powerhouse anymore very soon. A declining Mogilny or a declining Nolan isn't all that different from a steady Zednik or a promising Ryder. I see the leafs offense quickly becoming middle of the pack, much like I see Montreals becoming in the near future, rather than top notch. Some UFA signings could certainly help that, so I'll have to wait and see before I write them off.

But at this point I really don't think Toronto has the firepower to match a TB or a Ottawa anymore.

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12-05-2004, 06:07 PM
  #43
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First off, Habs don't have Kovalev, yet. When the NHL resumes, treams will try to sign Kovalev. He will not stay in Montreal for sure.

Second of all, with Bonk, they cna make the playoffs.

Third, stop with "Boston won't make the playoffs for sure". Bruins got rid of UFA's because of the lockout. They didn't want any bad contracts incase a cap was implemented. When the NHL resumes, Kariya, Demitra, Palffy, Stillman, Kovalev, Murray, Zhamnov, Zhitnik, etc..... all need to find a place to go to. Boston, will have a lot of roster space open, and Boston could get lucky by signing one of these players. Fact is, any team can improve their chances getting into the playoffs with a prominent free agent. The current lineup does look like crap, but that is what was planned. You can't really predict who will/who won't make the playoffs when there are so many free agents available, that can boost a team.

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12-05-2004, 06:14 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
What?

Seriously?

Ed Belfour, JS Aubin, and Mikael Tellqvist is easily as good as Jose Theodore, Cristobal Huet, and Yann Danis.
It's true that the goaltending situation is almost equal. Given that the goalies in both organisations are doing as expected, there shouldn't be a team that gets the edge in the goaltending area. However, with more experience, Danis could be a wildcard in the equation. IMO, he's going to be great. I've seen a little bit of him, and I really liked his game. He's stable, sound technically, above-average speed and always square the shooter. I'd like to see a little bit more of him, but he sounds like a good one. I'm gonna say that he's the next one to push in Theo's back. He could even get the #1 goalie spot down the road if he develops well.

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12-05-2004, 06:29 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Trevor Kidd is no longer with the Leafs.

Toronto's goaltending situation is as good as Montreal's, if not better.

Ed Belfour - Jose Theodore
JS Aubin - Cristobal Huet
Mikael Tellqvist - Yann Danis

And with Belfour's offseason surgery to his back, he's healed and is ready to start the season.


Except that there is about a 40 year age difference in the two groups.

And I complain about Hab fans being homers ...

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12-05-2004, 06:41 PM
  #46
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A lot of this is very speculative, until UFAs get signed.

With Komo out, I would expect the Habs to go for a defenceman, either by trade or by UFA signing, and how well they do will be tied to this. That said, I like how this team is coached now, and if otherwise healthy as well as under CJ's tutelage, as well as with a top-shape Theo in nets, this team is vying for a playoff spot right there. One more issue: the Habs need a goon, if Ivanans is not NHL-ready, otherwise they'll get pushed around and injured much more than with a goon in the line-up.

The Leafs are a formidable team when healthy, especially with Belfour at the top of his game, but with age comes susceptibility to injury. Age does not necessarily entail injury, especially as fit as some of those guys are, but if you were to do a statistical correlation analysis between age and time on DL in the league, I'm pretty sure that you'd find a positive correlation, and you'd also find a positive correlation with prior injuries (recall Koivu's early career... although the last surgery on his knee appears more robust than the first few). "Old", previously injured players are predisposed to injury.

In short, it looks like both Montreal and Toronto need to have some things go right to make the playoffs.

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Old
12-05-2004, 06:48 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob
oh ok....everyone knew that
What he said......


Yes, compared to the panthers. Were obviously better with Kovalev, as for Bonk, that remains to be seen imo. Im pretty sure though that he will fit right in.

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12-05-2004, 06:51 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
i had a dream that the lockout ended.......
I had a dream I was in a new home and Larry Robinson signed my jersey among other players.

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12-05-2004, 06:52 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-D
Something like this:

Prospect(Higgins)-Koivu-Zednik
Dagenais-Ribeiro-Ryder
Bulis-Begin-Sundstrom
Enforcer/Prospect/UFA-Plekanec-Ward

Markov-Rivet
Souray-Brisebois
Hainsey-Bouillon

Theodore
Danis

If Bonk ain't there, Huet either... Am I missing someone?
Yea, you are missing Komisarek. Remove Hainsey from the line-up, and put Komo. Here are the lines I would do assuming Kovalev and Bonk weren't on this team :

Perezhogin - Koivu - Zednik
Dagenais - Ribeiro - Ryder
Bulis - Plekanec - Sundstrom
Enforcer - Begin - Ward

Markov - Rivet
Souray - Brisebois
Komisarek - Bouillon

Theodore
Huet

On paper, we are basically a young team with solid players. Nothing more, nothing less. Making the playoffs won't be out of question considering the fact that we made it last year without Kovalev and Bonk. But it ain't going to be easy either. On paper, we are still a small team upfront and we could find some hard time fighting against bigger teams like Philadelphia.

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12-05-2004, 07:21 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
i had a dream that the lockout ended.......
I did too the other day, I was so pissed when I woke up.

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