HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

How did we get to this point?

View Poll Results: Who do you blame?
MAF 14 12.96%
HCDB 33 30.56%
D-corps 61 56.48%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-16-2012, 02:24 PM
  #26
RyK15*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,878
vCash: 500
I've always said that for a 1st overall pick, Fluery has underachieved. I put him up there with Rick Nash to be honest. The difference is: Fleury's supporting cast is miles better than Nash's.

RyK15* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 03:12 PM
  #27
Jill Sandwich
Master of Unlocking
 
Jill Sandwich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arklay Mansion
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,673
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Jill Sandwich
This same d-corps played great last year. What changed? The coaching.

Jill Sandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 03:14 PM
  #28
MrBurgundy*
Time to move forward
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: GlassCase of Emotion
Country: United States
Posts: 16,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill Sandwich View Post
This same d-corps played great last year. What changed? The coaching.
Isn't it the same coaching staff that coached great last year too?

No I must be imagining things.

MrBurgundy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 03:21 PM
  #29
Jill Sandwich
Master of Unlocking
 
Jill Sandwich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arklay Mansion
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,673
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Jill Sandwich
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
I've always said that for a 1st overall pick, Fluery has underachieved. I put him up there with Rick Nash to be honest. The difference is: Fleury's supporting cast is miles better than Nash's.
There isn't exactly a glut of high-drafted goalies who turned out better. Fleury's easily the best 1st overall goalie.

Here's all the goalies drafted in the top ten since 1984.

Jimmy Waite (8th overall)
Jocelyn Thibault (10th overall)
Jamie Storr (7th overall)
Roberto Luongo (4th overall)
Brian Finley (6th overall)
Rick Dipietro (1st overall)
Brent Krahn (9th overall)
Pascal Leclaire (8th overall)
Dan Blackburn (10th overall)
Kari Lehtonen (2nd overall)
Marc-Andre Fleury (1st overall)
Al Montoya (6th overall)
Carey Price (5th overall)

Who can you say achieved more? Luongo, if you count his gold medal?


Furthermore... who's the better pick for the Penguins in 2003? Would we have done better with no goalie and Eric Staal, Ryan Suter, Ryan Getzlaf? Would we have won the 2009 Cup?

Jill Sandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 03:36 PM
  #30
KevyD
Make It 30!!!!
 
KevyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Niagara
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,630
vCash: 500
How did we get to this point?

We became the Washington Capitals of years gone by. As I wrote weeks before the playoffs...

Anyone else worrying the Penguins are starting to resemble the Caps of recent years???

Great season. Offensively explosive. No back check. No grit. Will come back to haunt them in the playoffs.


I am sooooo clever.

KevyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 03:38 PM
  #31
The Old Master
Registered User
 
The Old Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: burgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,453
vCash: 500
all of the above.....and add the de play of our forewards....they aren't helping at all.

The Old Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 04:48 PM
  #32
Karnage420
Registered User
 
Karnage420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
How did we get to this point?

We became the Washington Capitals of years gone by. As I wrote weeks before the playoffs...

Anyone else worrying the Penguins are starting to resemble the Caps of recent years???

Great season. Offensively explosive. No back check. No grit. Will come back to haunt them in the playoffs.


I am sooooo clever.
yup

we are an offensive juggernaut.

and that simply does not win playoff games. it just doesnt.

in a way adding neal was "the worst" thing that could happen to this team, because now they think we can just outscore everyone all the time.


Karnage420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 05:00 PM
  #33
KaylaJ
Tungsten!
 
KaylaJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: hell
Country: United States
Posts: 14,172
vCash: 500
All of the above. To me it is a problem that basically festered over the season. Let's be fair some of these mistakes we're seeing now were the same ones we saw in games 1, 33, 75 and now. Orpik, Martin, and the rest have had holes but we could always say "well, we're injured" or they were on the winning streak and could be ignored. Those two back to back losses vs the Islanders should have been wake up calls going into the playoffs, but yet it was just "well, they're meaningless games". It's like they expect a flip to be switched any time now. Plus waiting til after Game 1 to do something different on the PP just ain't gonna work.

Also there was never any real change playing Philly. Not to take anything away from them cause they are a good team, but how many times have we seen them go down 2/3-0, Lavi call a TO, and they get back into it not only to us but other teams? After the Pens let up those first goals to the Flyers that's when Bylsma needs to remind these guys to not quit. But he saves the TO for when we're down by 2 in the final 45 seconds.

KaylaJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:14 PM
  #34
Uncle Jorgi
Registered User
 
Uncle Jorgi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cranberry Twp, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
That may be but since you can't fire the whole team, the buck must stop at Bylsma. I can't believe that all these players suck that bad. I think something is really awry with this team mentally, though I can't even guess as to what it could be. Hopefully someday we find out. It might not be DB's fault at all but if you need to make a change (and man, it'd be pretty tough to stand pat after this debacle) then it can only be DB.
Not at all. Instead of firing the coach just because you can't figure out anything better to do, actually do some due diligence, review everyone's performance (including the coach), and decide who you believe is actually causing the problems. Then decide if you believe these people are just having a poor year and will rebound, or if you should cut bait with them, individually, and go in a different direction.

This is what i believe Shero will do, and it's what i think he should do.

Uncle Jorgi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:17 PM
  #35
cassius
Registered User
 
cassius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,896
vCash: 500
Paul Martin makes $5,000,000 a year and has played worse than a rookie.

As crazy as it sounds, maybe putting Depres in there probably could have actually been the right call. Maybe we only give up 6 goals instead of 8. It's all relative though.

cassius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:33 PM
  #36
Gary Roberts
Bringer of rain
 
Gary Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,737
vCash: 500
All of the above and a little more.

MAF is tired and broken right now. He seems to be just a tick slow, especially with his rebound control. And that's when he's at his best. At his worst he just looks broken. He has zero confidence. I can't really blame Flower for everything, but he hasn't been sharp in a while. I can't say I'm overly surprised with the results. The Pens need a reliable back-up goalie this offseason.

This is the third post season in a row where Disco Dan has been outcoached. The difference is, this time it seems like he's lost the team. In addition to not being able to counter Lavy's adjustments, his players are embarassing the franchise right now. I'm not just counting game 3 either. There has been a total breakdown in the system. And they were completely out of control yesterday. It started at the top. When HCDB did nothing to reign in his captain, that gave the rest of the team license to run around and play like thugs as well. This is the third postseason in a row that Disco has refused to make an adjustment in his line-up or his gameplan. And quite frankly, I wouldn't be shocked or upset if he lost his job after the Flyers bounce the Pens.

And the defense has been terrible. This partially goes back to coaching, and partially falls on execution. The coaching staff has not recognized the weaknesses in the d-corps this season and adjusted accordingly. Watching this team try to defend has been embarassing going back to the track meet against Winnipeg.

The biggest thing this playoff series has been an overall lack of leadership. Sid is off his game and acting like a child. Malkin is so far off his game right now, and it seems to be leading to lazy, sloppy play. Orpik and Staal look like they've given up. And HCDB has no answers.

Gary Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:35 PM
  #37
NastyNick
Registered User
 
NastyNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,889
vCash: 500
Fleury was a ticking time bomb. The Islanders set the charge. The Flyers detonated it. Blame the defense all you want, but playing with 3/4ths of a goalie back there isn't easy work. It breaks down morale pretty quick.

We've seen this Fleury before. Start of last year, the last two springs, and it wasn't the defense then either. Thats just the way he is. Unfortunately.

NastyNick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:37 PM
  #38
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Roberts View Post
All of the above and a little more.

MAF is tired and broken right now. He seems to be just a tick slow, especially with his rebound control. And that's when he's at his best. At his worst he just looks broken. He has zero confidence. I can't really blame Flower for everything, but he hasn't been sharp in a while. I can't say I'm overly surprised with the results. The Pens need a reliable back-up goalie this offseason.

This is the third post season in a row where Disco Dan has been outcoached. The difference is, this time it seems like he's lost the team. In addition to not being able to counter Lavy's adjustments, his players are embarassing the franchise right now. I'm not just counting game 3 either. There has been a total breakdown in the system. And they were completely out of control yesterday. It started at the top. When HCDB did nothing to reign in his captain, that gave the rest of the team license to run around and play like thugs as well. This is the third postseason in a row that Disco has refused to make an adjustment in his line-up or his gameplan. And quite frankly, I wouldn't be shocked or upset if he lost his job after the Flyers bounce the Pens.

And the defense has been terrible. This partially goes back to coaching, and partially falls on execution. The coaching staff has not recognized the weaknesses in the d-corps this season and adjusted accordingly. Watching this team try to defend has been embarassing going back to the track meet against Winnipeg.

The biggest thing this playoff series has been an overall lack of leadership. Sid is off his game and acting like a child. Malkin is so far off his game right now, and it seems to be leading to lazy, sloppy play. Orpik and Staal look like they've given up. And HCDB has no answers.
Pretty much covers it. There's more too, but it's just a case of everyone and everything. This is going to be one busy summer, and I think you could count on a hand the number of people-- players, coaches, even managers-- who are 100% safe no matter what.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:50 PM
  #39
catdaddy
Worried Yet?
 
catdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Home
Country: United States
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
... this team lost a home and away series against the Isles for christ's sakes...

I've begun to think that those two games provided a lot more insight into this Penguin team than anyone realized at the time. Unfortunately, foreshadowed this playoff series with the Flyers horrifyingly well.

catdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 08:54 PM
  #40
vodeni
Registered User
 
vodeni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,108
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupree13 View Post
It's really weird. Even after reading the multitude of different takes, I still don't think I've seen an explanation that is close to adequate. Pointing the finger at one or three or four guys doesn't cut it, it's truly been a team wide collapse in defensive play. Something really went rotten with this team. Never seen anything quite like it. Some journalist needs to press the issue and ask DB some hard questions.
I am sure that will happen

vodeni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-16-2012, 09:25 PM
  #41
Gary Roberts
Bringer of rain
 
Gary Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,737
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vodeni View Post
I am sure that will happen
It wouldn't matter anyhow. DB would give his usual answers.

Reporter: "Coach, you're down 3 games to none to the Flyers. You seem to be getting outplayed and outcoached. What do you intend to do to respond?"

Disco: "We've got to get to our game."

Reporter: "You've given up more shorthanded goals than you've scored on the powerplay. Are you going to change the personel on the power play, or adjust the gameplan?"

Disco: "We're going to try to get to our game. We intend to use some combination of 87, 71, 26, 14, 18, 2, 4, 7, 9, 29, 1, 48, 45, 24, 11, and 27. I'm not going to commit to not using 5 forwards, 5 defensemen, 2 goalies, or 4 defensemen and 3 forwards on the powerplay going forward."

Reporter: "You're not really answering my questions."

Disco: "We're just trying to get to our game. We need to move north and south"

Reporter: "So where are you guys trying to get? Your game?"

Disco: "Nope, we're trying to get to the golf course."

Gary Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 03:36 AM
  #42
Master Shake
Registered User
 
Master Shake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 1,763
vCash: 500
DB
MAF
Defense
Lack of Heart
Lack of humbleness
Lack of dumping in the corners and killing their dmen
TERRIBLE PP. REEKS. No imagination in it. We need to put Crosby behind the net and have an aggressive dman come down low sometimes

This team SHOULD win the Cup but they need to WANT to win the Cup.

We could use Esa Tikannen. We need a good skilled defensive guy who can get other teams off their game mentally by running his yap endlessly. We need a guy the other team wants to kill.

We also need a Gary Roberts.

Master Shake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 03:58 AM
  #43
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 10,280
vCash: 500
Unstructured play all over the ice. Keep that loosy goosy garbage in the past. It just gets picked apart now.

Its going to be an interesting summer. Everythings going to involve bringing in more defenseman and it looks like the draft is defense heavy.

#66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 04:02 AM
  #44
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 10,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
DB
MAF
Defense
Lack of Heart
Lack of humbleness
Lack of dumping in the corners and killing their dmen
TERRIBLE PP. REEKS. No imagination in it. We need to put Crosby behind the net and have an aggressive dman come down low sometimes

This team SHOULD win the Cup but they need to WANT to win the Cup.

We could use Esa Tikannen. We need a good skilled defensive guy who can get other teams off their game mentally by running his yap endlessly. We need a guy the other team wants to kill.

We also need a Gary Roberts.
Thats something I'll agree with Torts with. The Pens are arrogant to a fault and flat out don't respect the teams they're playing. Thats why team like the Isles can sneak up on them and bite them in the butt.

I like a team with a chip on its shoulder but now the chips been knocked off... what are they going to do about it?

#66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 05:12 AM
  #45
Master Shake
Registered User
 
Master Shake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 1,763
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Thats something I'll agree with Torts with. The Pens are arrogant to a fault and flat out don't respect the teams they're playing. Thats why team like the Isles can sneak up on them and bite them in the butt.

I like a team with a chip on its shoulder but now the chips been knocked off... what are they going to do about it?
This team has always lacked the sense of professionalism about it, even when we won the Cup. We have no killer instinct. I was worried the whole series we won against Detroit. I havent seen one since our first 2 cups. I still cannot believe we lost to Montreal and Tampa

This team is the type of team to have its foot on the snakes head and then gets lazy and careless. We are the Rabbit in the Hare and the Tortiose.

When you have a team down, FINISH THEM. You dont allow them to keep hanging around. Take em out and move on.

Master Shake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 12:33 PM
  #46
Grave77digger
Registered User
 
Grave77digger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,550
vCash: 500
RAY SHERO


He gets an A for the trades he has made and a big fat F for his off seasons mishandlings. I dont have the time but if you look at all of his off season moves they have not been very good. Look at the players he let walk and then look at the replacements.

Grave77digger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 12:38 PM
  #47
spcastlemagic
Registered User
 
spcastlemagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,063
vCash: 500
We go to this point because we spent a year and half going "yeah, well, wait and see when we are full strength" instead of remembering what it takes to be a championship team. These guys play with less composure, confidence, and professionalism than they did when they were in the early 20's. We cultivated a team ego when we should have been learning how to play like Detroit.

spcastlemagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 12:45 PM
  #48
TheStinger
Non Omnis Moriar
 
TheStinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Barcelona, Catalunya
Country: Australia
Posts: 5,685
vCash: 500
If we are going out, let's got out in a blaze of glory. Let's hit them at every opportunity. If it bleeds, we can kill it. Give them some bruises to remember us by.

TheStinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 12:53 PM
  #49
vyktor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill Sandwich View Post
This same d-corps played great last year. What changed? The coaching.
when exactly last year were they so good, certainly not in the post season, when they gave up a series lead to TB.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
How did we get to this point?

We became the Washington Capitals of years gone by. As I wrote weeks before the playoffs...

Anyone else worrying the Penguins are starting to resemble the Caps of recent years???

Great season. Offensively explosive. No back check. No grit. Will come back to haunt them in the playoffs.


I am sooooo clever.
Yep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnage420 View Post
yup

we are an offensive juggernaut.

and that simply does not win playoff games. it just doesnt.

in a way adding neal was "the worst" thing that could happen to this team, because now they think we can just outscore everyone all the time.

Yep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grave77digger View Post
RAY SHERO


He gets an A for the trades he has made and a big fat F for his off seasons mishandlings. I dont have the time but if you look at all of his off season moves they have not been very good. Look at the players he let walk and then look at the replacements.
What happened to being a team that was hard to play against?

I understand giving the neutered Cooke a second chance, but what happened to the rest of grit, build a team for the post season mentality.


Soff!!

vyktor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2012, 02:13 PM
  #50
Whakahere
Registered User
 
Whakahere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Germany
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 1,235
vCash: 903
Send a message via MSN to Whakahere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
when did this team start losing? it was a few games after Sid came back. all of a sudden the Pens were playing without defending. this team lost a home and away series against the Isles for christ's sakes. no wonder that the Flyers score 8 every night.
It starting happening when dan changed the lines on crosby's return. With the Cooke, Crosby, kenndy and sully, staal, dups line we were winning. As soon as that changed we started to play poor defence.

Whakahere is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.