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this will be it for George......

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Old
06-25-2006, 04:56 PM
  #1
Ridley Simon
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this will be it for George......

ok draft< because we had the #4 PICK. Love Backstrom. Like the Russian keeper enough. The rest?? my guess typical GMGM post 1st round prowess.

Maybe 1 of the 3 2nd rounders will be seen in Hershey. Maybe.

I have a feeling (hope!!!) that will be McPhee's last Caps draft. I am 80% certain after this weekend. was only 50% coming into it>>>>>

I'm not the only one>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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06-25-2006, 05:26 PM
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I'll take that bet in a heartbeat. What's gonna get him fired? The only way GM isn't here next draft is if he leaves on his own, or the team somehow regresses and gets worse than last year. I don't see either happening.

Remember we've already hit rock bottom, so there has to be some catalyst to get Mcphee fired.

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06-25-2006, 05:37 PM
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06-25-2006, 05:39 PM
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Chimaera
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GMGM is here until the Ovey ride goes south.

If Ovechkin helps improve the team (or maintain a relatively similar pace with some late season improvement) then McPhee will be here next year.

Can you blame McPhee for letting Ovechkin in on the draft? He is no fool and realizes taht Ovechkin is his ticket.

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06-25-2006, 06:15 PM
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thankgod for all the valueable insight computer chair/message board scouts offer

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06-25-2006, 07:04 PM
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With all the <<<<<<<<<<<<< i thought you might be bigtrain from the official boards. Mcphee isn't getting fired any time soon. I wonder if any of you guys interview for Poile's position after he was fired. I mean, you all seem to know exactly what to do and exactly how to go about it more than the professionals who get paid the big bucks to do this.

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06-25-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon
ok draft< because we had the #4 PICK. Love Backstrom. Like the Russian keeper enough. The rest?? my guess typical GMGM post 1st round prowess.

Maybe 1 of the 3 2nd rounders will be seen in Hershey. Maybe.

I have a feeling (hope!!!) that will be McPhee's last Caps draft. I am 80% certain after this weekend. was only 50% coming into it>>>>>

I'm not the only one>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[IMAGE]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3111/ohsnap98er.gif[/IMAGE]

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06-25-2006, 08:55 PM
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Ridley Simon
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Our team management has gotten very lucky with Backstrom and Ovechkin. Maybe Green and the Russian G will stick.

All othose choices over the past 2-3 years....we'd better get at least 4 more starting players.

Don't hold your breath!!!

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06-25-2006, 09:34 PM
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You're telling me that you think this draft is a bust ONE day after the draft?

Gimmie a break.

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06-25-2006, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bletchley
You're telling me that you think this draft is a bust ONE day after the draft?

Gimmie a break.
Yes and no. We got a sure thing in Backstrom and that's great. The rest of the draft was a bunch of

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=262987

Apparently, the Caps didn't know "the Russian goalie" wasn't there. Anyone hear GMGM's comments about the goalies - he didn't know their names.

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06-25-2006, 09:50 PM
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I see what you guys are saying, but I'm sure when the Wings picked Zetterberg or Datsyuk late, Wings fans weren't jumping out of their seats. And they turned out to be snipes. Not comparing the Caps picks to those players. My point is, wait a year or so b/f bashing GMGM.

Being someone from Vancouver, I think the Caps have a have a sexy future. AO alone is going to attract some monster talent. Actually, I'm pissed the Caps don't come to Vancouver. THe NHL sked is dumb now.

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06-25-2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinoflint
Yes and no. We got a sure thing in Backstrom and that's great. The rest of the draft was a bunch of

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=262987

Apparently, the Caps didn't know "the Russian goalie" wasn't there. Anyone hear GMGM's comments about the goalies - he didn't know their names.

This isn't quite like the NFL draft, were players are pretty much guaranteed to sign, thus, there is much more conversation with the players before draft day.

I too love the armchair GM's who read a few draft reports and want to question everything Mcphee does. Quite honestly this draft is the biggest crapshoot of all the majors sports because the players are typically not ready to physically play (at the highest level) for 3-5 years after being drafted.

Lighten up guys and have some faith that the scouts know what they are doing, and that GM heeds the advice of those who make it their profession to pick out talent from 16-18 yr old kids.

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06-25-2006, 10:11 PM
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NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
This isn't quite like the NFL draft, were players are pretty much guaranteed to sign, thus, there is much more conversation with the players before draft day.

I too love the armchair GM's who read a few draft reports and want to question everything Mcphee does. Quite honestly this draft is the biggest crapshoot of all the majors sports because the players are typically not ready to physically play (at the highest level) for 3-5 years after being drafted.

Lighten up guys and have some faith that the scouts know what they are doing, and that GM heeds the advice of those who make it their profession to pick out talent from 16-18 yr old kids.
Actually, the MLB draft is MUCH more of a crapshoot than the NHL draft. There are years when not a single 1st round pick becomes a regular Major Leaguer.

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06-25-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Actually, the MLB draft is MUCH more of a crapshoot than the NHL draft. There are years when not a single 1st round pick becomes a regular Major Leaguer.
As I was typing it, I considered the MLB draft. Now I've only been able to find a few years of the draft to research this, but the years I've looked at are very similar to the NHL...the first few picks and a smattering in picks in the first round have made the majors, and beyond that, it looks to be the same crapshoot. It's what happens when you're drafting 18 yr olds who have yet to mature physically.

I would put them about the same though. I haven't been able to find a draft yet online, where the players have matured and not a single first rounder has made the majors. I actually think the MLB players take longer to develop.

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06-25-2006, 11:19 PM
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dinoflint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
This isn't quite like the NFL draft, were players are pretty much guaranteed to sign, thus, there is much more conversation with the players before draft day.

I too love the armchair GM's who read a few draft reports and want to question everything Mcphee does. Quite honestly this draft is the biggest crapshoot of all the majors sports because the players are typically not ready to physically play (at the highest level) for 3-5 years after being drafted.

Lighten up guys and have some faith that the scouts know what they are doing, and that GM heeds the advice of those who make it their profession to pick out talent from 16-18 yr old kids.
Well, let me qualify my post...

1) I don't think we should have taken a goalie in the first round. GMGM passed on a solid center prospect, Patrik Berglund, to take a goalie - IMHO center is our greatest need. 99% of the time, goalies take the longest to mature. I wouldn't mind using 2nd round picks to take goalies.

Patrik Berglund:

This guy is 6'3" and growing, just turned 18 this month. In reading about him (from what pro scouts write) I think he's got a lot of upside and potentially could have filled a HUGE need for the Caps:

"Huge forward. Good skater who could still use some first step quickness. Moves well for his size. Creative, cool playmaker with a good understanding of the game. Fine over all skill level, smooth hands, good, quick wrist shot. Effective two-way forward who has improved a lot during the 05-06 season. Looks composed. creates a lot of danger. With his long arms he protects the puck very well. Very good reach. Excellent size, will improve his over all game when he gets more muscle and strength. Has changed his attitude and is now a good, hard working competitor with great offensive instincts. Can play physical and aggressive when needed."

"Berglund combines his size and great reach with good technical skills and decent scoring ability. He is tough to steal the puck from when he reaches full speed and protects the puck well. Berglund likes to drive the net and when he does not get a good shot opportunity, he is a good passer as well. Should play more physical and work on his speed. Earlier considered a bit one-dimensional and not very hardworking, Berglund has improved significantly in both areas during last season. Somewhat inconsistent in his play and a bit streaky though."

The other centers on the farm (or in some scenarios, in the NHL next year) include Tenute, Gordon, Aulin, Steckel, Beech, and Laich. I shiver at the thought of those guys centering our 2nd line.

2) I can never say for sure, but Semen Varlamov could have been available at #34. Regardless, we got another goalie sitting there in Michael Neuwirth. Jhonas Enroth was also available. We could have got 2 decent goalie prospects with these picks.

My earlier post in another thread said we should have taken Williams at #34. That's simply because with the new order of things, we drafted two Euro goalies that need to come over in two years or we lose them. The countdown starts at the same time - why not draft 1 goalie and another with a 2nd round pick next year? You get an "extra" year of development and really don't lose anything because goalie is a crap shoot.

Williams certainly dropped - maybe he interviews poorly or is cross-eyed. I dunno. I'm still mad we passed on Ryan Parent...

Anyway, with the previous logic we could have added:
1 "closest thing to a sure thing" prospect in Backstrom
1 "better center prospect than anyone in the system not named Backstrom" in Berglund
1 decent goalie in Varlamov, Neuwirth, or Enroth
1 "no worse than Yonkman maybe just like Schultz, Pokulok, Finley" wild-card defensman in Williams

With the exception of the goalies, these guys were all ranked consistently in the top 25 by most major scouting services. But, yeah, you are right - I'm an armchair GM and I this is only my opinion. But I would have been a lot more excited to see Backstrom, Berglund, (insert goalie name here), and Williams than what we just drafted.

As far as the comparisons to other drafts, you're right NHL and MLB are the biggest crap shoots going. My old Orioles had two of the biggest flops in Ben McDonald and Jeffrey Hammonds. So, yeah, nothings a sure thing, but they are surer things than others

But I digress - I really don't care about the other picks - as one person said, would we recognize any of them if they walked into the same room as us? No, and I don't expect any of them to play for us either, so I can't say that I care what they look like. Not every late round pick is going to be a Pivonka, Khristich, Bondra, Klee, Kono, or Brunette - you just hope you get one every few years. That said, I like the Osala pick.


Last edited by dinoflint: 06-26-2006 at 08:50 AM. Reason: I don't know what "prebious" logic is, but maybe I'll invent it...
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Old
06-26-2006, 04:22 AM
  #16
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I would hardly call Big Ben and Hammonds busts. Hammonds had a long career, but wasn't the HOFer he was touted to be. Both had injury issues that jinxed them.

I guess I'm not feeling as critical about the goalie picks because centers are much easier to come by than #1 goaltenders in the NHL. I think we're feeling a false sense of security with Olie signed for a few more years. In reality NHL goalies take a long time to develop. I'm happy we got a future #1 center in Backstrom (with the pick that really mattered) and am OK with taking a few goalies to develop. After all, it's not like we're loaded in the minors with keepers like it seemed a year or two ago. Without a true #1 goalie, this team may make the playoffs in a year or two, but anything beyond that is highly questionable.

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Old
06-26-2006, 07:07 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon

Lighten up guys and have some faith that the scouts know what they are doing, and that GM heeds the advice of those who make it their profession to pick out talent from 16-18 yr old kids.

Well if the Caps had scouts who actually knew what they were doing then we'd lighten up. As it stands now we might as well just forfeit all our picks outside the first round.

GMGMs track record outside the first round speaks for itself. He has lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.

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06-26-2006, 08:20 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanwon
I would hardly call Big Ben and Hammonds busts. Hammonds had a long career, but wasn't the HOFer he was touted to be. Both had injury issues that jinxed them.

I guess I'm not feeling as critical about the goalie picks because centers are much easier to come by than #1 goaltenders in the NHL. I think we're feeling a false sense of security with Olie signed for a few more years. In reality NHL goalies take a long time to develop. I'm happy we got a future #1 center in Backstrom (with the pick that really mattered) and am OK with taking a few goalies to develop. After all, it's not like we're loaded in the minors with keepers like it seemed a year or two ago. Without a true #1 goalie, this team may make the playoffs in a year or two, but anything beyond that is highly questionable.
Beau Hale, Mike Paradis, Richard Stahl: those are some Orioles busts.

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06-26-2006, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz
Beau Hale, Mike Paradis, Richard Stahl: those are some Orioles busts.
True, but not in the glorious fashion of McDonald and Hammonds. Hale, Paradis, and Stahl have busted in their own glorious ways. I don't follow the Os nearly as close these days - but, I don't remember the Orioles tagging them with such lofty expectations as Big Ben and Hammonds - franchise players and perrenial all-stars.

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06-26-2006, 10:54 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinordi24
Well if the Caps had scouts who actually knew what they were doing then we'd lighten up. As it stands now we might as well just forfeit all our picks outside the first round.

GMGMs track record outside the first round speaks for itself. He has lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago.
So what does that say for the Great Lou of NJ since 1999 Lou has only drafted 4 players to play significant time in the NHL - and that includes Andreas Salomonsson.

NJ Picks after the 1st round since 99
M Commodore #42 in 1999
Paul Martin #62 in 2000
Mike Rupp # 76 in 2000
Salmonsson # 163 2001
And IIRC correctly he "wasted" a 1st rounder on a goalie in 1990(and took 2 others one #53)

Detroit
H Zetterburg #210 in 1999
Flash #63 in 2002

Carolina - Stanely Cup Champs
0

Tampa Bay
P Ranger 183 2002
F Federov 182 1999 (didn't sign)
Credit due for
Kubina #179 in 1996
Richards #64 in 1998

Bobby clarke's Flyers
Cechmanek #171 2000
P Sharp #95 2001
D Seidenburg #172

The guy with the most picks after the 1st was craig patrick in Pitt and he just got fired.

So I don't know what you keep bringing this up for no one has a track record year after year of picking after the 1st. Give him the years Holland, Lou have had and he will find them too.

And Hockey News and SI disagree also giving and A+ & A- respectively

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06-26-2006, 11:19 PM
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Canes have done well in the first round though the last few years.

2000
97 D Niclas Wallin - On the Cup team, so he has seen 'some' action.

By limiting the draft to 1999, the Canes also get their 1998 draft where they did pretty well outside the first round. Not great, but a couple NHLers there

1998
71 L Erik Cole
91 C Josef Vasicek
93 R Tommy Westlund - 203 regular season games
208 R Jaroslav Svoboda - 134 regular season games

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06-26-2006, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeasy
So what does that say for the Great Lou of NJ since 1999 Lou has only drafted 4 players to play significant time in the NHL - and that includes Andreas Salomonsson.

NJ Picks after the 1st round since 99
M Commodore #42 in 1999
Paul Martin #62 in 2000
Mike Rupp # 76 in 2000
Salmonsson # 163 2001
And IIRC correctly he "wasted" a 1st rounder on a goalie in 1990(and took 2 others one #53)

Detroit
H Zetterburg #210 in 1999
Flash #63 in 2002

Carolina - Stanely Cup Champs
0

Tampa Bay
P Ranger 183 2002
F Federov 182 1999 (didn't sign)
Credit due for
Kubina #179 in 1996
Richards #64 in 1998

Bobby clarke's Flyers
Cechmanek #171 2000
P Sharp #95 2001
D Seidenburg #172

The guy with the most picks after the 1st was craig patrick in Pitt and he just got fired.

So I don't know what you keep bringing this up for no one has a track record year after year of picking after the 1st. Give him the years Holland, Lou have had and he will find them too.

And Hockey News and SI disagree also giving and A+ & A- respectively

I'd be willing to bet you won't get a response from Tinordi, because you responded with logic. Hard to refute your facts. Well done.

Love to see this from the Hockey News:

The Grade: A+
Washington could not have done better. Backstrom was great pickup, and choosing goalies Semen Varlamov (23rd overall) and Michal Neuvirth (34th overall) they filled a definite need. Grabbing Bouchard 35th was also a great pickup. The team really improved Saturday.

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06-27-2006, 08:11 AM
  #23
bigeasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland
Canes have done well in the first round though the last few years.

2000
97 D Niclas Wallin - On the Cup team, so he has seen 'some' action.

By limiting the draft to 1999, the Canes also get their 1998 draft where they did pretty well outside the first round. Not great, but a couple NHLers there

1998
71 L Erik Cole
91 C Josef Vasicek
93 R Tommy Westlund - 203 regular season games
208 R Jaroslav Svoboda - 134 regular season games
Missed Wallin - I only went back to 1999 since that is the tenure of GMGM. it is 99 to last year

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06-27-2006, 08:20 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland
Canes have done well in the first round though the last few years.

2000
97 D Niclas Wallin - On the Cup team, so he has seen 'some' action.

By limiting the draft to 1999, the Canes also get their 1998 draft where they did pretty well outside the first round. Not great, but a couple NHLers there

1998
71 L Erik Cole
91 C Josef Vasicek
93 R Tommy Westlund - 203 regular season games
208 R Jaroslav Svoboda - 134 regular season games

Well since 97 McPhee has had:

Pettinger, Yonkman, and ????

Either way I'd trade those guys and then some for Cole!

Also, even tho I dont like him, Datsyuk was a 6th rounder in 98...

Detroit got Datsyuk and Zetterberg late in drafts, even tho their draft picks are sparse....McPhee got Pettinger....

Lets face it, someone has to REALLY be REACHING to find ONE TEAM that has faired WORSE than the Caps in drafting past 1st round.

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06-27-2006, 08:22 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeasy
So what does that say for the Great Lou of NJ since 1999 Lou has only drafted 4 players to play significant time in the NHL - and that includes Andreas Salomonsson.

NJ Picks after the 1st round since 99
M Commodore #42 in 1999
Paul Martin #62 in 2000
Mike Rupp # 76 in 2000
Salmonsson # 163 2001
And IIRC correctly he "wasted" a 1st rounder on a goalie in 1990(and took 2 others one #53)

Detroit
H Zetterburg #210 in 1999
Flash #63 in 2002

Carolina - Stanely Cup Champs
0

Tampa Bay
P Ranger 183 2002
F Federov 182 1999 (didn't sign)
Credit due for
Kubina #179 in 1996
Richards #64 in 1998

Bobby clarke's Flyers
Cechmanek #171 2000
P Sharp #95 2001
D Seidenburg #172

The guy with the most picks after the 1st was craig patrick in Pitt and he just got fired.

So I don't know what you keep bringing this up for no one has a track record year after year of picking after the 1st. Give him the years Holland, Lou have had and he will find them too.

And Hockey News and SI disagree also giving and A+ & A- respectively

I believe McPhee's first draft was in 1997 right? Maybe 98 but I THINK it was 97.

If you want a fair comparison you should go back to then. You will find at least 90% of the teams, AT LEAST, will have faired better.

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