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Old
04-17-2012, 03:18 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
He was scared all night!! He will have to be a lot better than he was last night to stay in the line-up. I did not and have not seen what a lot of you are talking about as far as his physical presence goes. He is young and I think has a lot of talent but that does not always compute into a NHL star like some of you think.
He didn't throw his body around, but he did some good things along the boards, showing strength while protecting the puck. As he gets more comfortable with the speed of the game, his physicality will increase.

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04-17-2012, 03:45 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Ruotsalainen29 View Post
I think your boy has been easily the most disappointing forward thus far.
Stepan has been scary bad for quite a while now. Well before the Orpik incident.

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04-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
He won't see a sniff of the AHL. They wouldn't be giving him a "baptism of fire" if they felt he wasn't at least competent.

Once he gets settled, he is going to improve quite a bit.

He got better as the game progressed last night. I don't see how it won't continue.

I swear if he gets that goal last night, everyone would be saying he is Rick Nash.
I think the "he got better as the game went alone" narrative is a spotty one at best.

And this "baptism by fire" you speak of has more to do with a lack of bodies up front than the thought that Kreider can contribute in the NHL right now. Some AHL time would be really good for him. Far too many people view it as a slight when its really just part of a natural progression.

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04-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #229
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he did get better every shift though...

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04-17-2012, 03:59 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I swear if he gets that goal last night, everyone would be saying he is Rick Nash.
I wish everyone could go back and read the thread on Stepan's first game when he scored a hat trick. I saw through all the smoke and mirrors and saw a kid who got super lucky. He is still just as average, and just as terrible as a skater as he was back then.

Stepan is grossly overrated. Kreider however, is not. He is the real deal.

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04-17-2012, 04:01 PM
  #231
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maybe

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Boyle-Callahan
Anisimov-Stepan-Kreider (played some RW at BC)
Feds-Rupp-Prust

edit:



Last edited by n8: 04-17-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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04-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #232
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I think we need a poll to measure everyones opinion on Kreider's performance last night

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04-17-2012, 04:06 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by avery16 View Post
he did get better every shift though...
I thought his best shift was his first one, so obviously I disagree.

I also think this trial by fire rendered Richards and Gaborik virtually useless for most of the game, which cant happen going forward.

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04-17-2012, 04:08 PM
  #234
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Really harsh crowd in here.

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04-17-2012, 04:10 PM
  #235
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Where's my roster update, NHL 12!?!?!!?

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04-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
He didn't throw his body around, but he did some good things along the boards, showing strength while protecting the puck. As he gets more comfortable with the speed of the game, his physicality will increase.
Really? I thought his weakness especially in the first was his board play. I saw him shy away from a puck battle and lost possession. Im guessing it was nerves but hopefully that doesn't continue in game 2 for him .

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04-17-2012, 04:12 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
maybe

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Boyle-Callahan
Anisimov-Stepan-Kreider (played some RW at BC)
Feds-Rupp-Prust
The second line here are two grinders and a power forward. The Third lines is full of playmakers, and skilled guys.

Lets swap Anisimov and Dubinsky and have a balance three lines.


Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Anisimov - Boyle - Callahan
Dubinsky - Stepan - Kreider

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04-17-2012, 04:13 PM
  #238
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One thing that I missed seeing in the discussion (but which I think is a huge part of why Kreider was signed for this year's play-offs in the first place) is that the Rangers do not have a "bench of substitute" forwards. After Zuke went down with an injury the Rangers are left with no truly viable call ups to replace any player that is already in the line-up. I mean look at how many of you regard Mitchell as useless - and now imagine that available replacements are Scott & Newbury - enough said...

This is where Kreider comes in this year. I'm sure Torts & his coaching staff would've loved to have Kreider developing in AHL for some time without being rushed. And I'm sure they would've preferred different circumstances - not a first road game in the play-off series. But because of our lack of bench players - there is no choice but to rush Kreider's development and burn a year of his entry level $.

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04-17-2012, 04:15 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Really? I thought his weakness especially in the first was his board play. I saw him shy away from a puck battle and lost possession. Im guessing it was nerves but hopefully that doesn't continue in game 2 for him .
Until he really gets hit hard he will be nervous. Once he gets knocked on his ass and is able to get up, his comfort level and nerves will be gone.

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04-17-2012, 04:16 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
maybe

Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Boyle-Callahan
Anisimov-Stepan-Kreider (played some RW at BC)
Feds-Rupp-Prust

edit:

Not a bad lineup. I'm down for it. Mitchell needs to get reacquainted with the pressbox.

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04-17-2012, 04:20 PM
  #241
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It's amazing how one guy, Kreider makes thatnlineupnlook so much better.

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04-17-2012, 04:27 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome View Post
It's amazing how one guy, Kreider makes thatnlineupnlook so much better.
Well, its certainly amazing when you apply the hfboards hype machine to the name.

Im just going to go by what I saw last night, which was a kid with a lot of raw potential who just simply isnt ready to be thrown into the NHL playoffs straight from college.

That lineup looks no different to me right now than one with John Mitchell in it. That'll change as soon as next year, of course. But right now? Its just not much of a difference.

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04-17-2012, 04:34 PM
  #243
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I paid tremendous attention to Kreider last night because I haven't had much opportunity to see him play in the past and wanted to get a better feel for what he was all about. I will say that I was unable to do so, but I'm not terribly surprised by that.

From what I observed, Kreider played an extremely conservative game which is 100% understandable given the nature of his NHL debut, in what was arguably a 'must-win' game for the #1 seed in the playoffs. I also feel that being on the ice for Torts' practices all week contributed to how conservatively he played; not only would Torts be stressing the importance of playing mistake free, responsible hockey to the entire team, but you would not want to be the rookie who took a risk in your debut and even cost the team a scoring opportunity against, let alone a goal.

All of that said, I was really just looking to get a feel for some of his skill set and not expecting him, realistically, to do much. Now, I'm already aware that this is probably because of the fact that he was very self conscious and playing a conservative game, but he seemed a little disengaged from the physical side. At 6'3 230, with good speed, I wanted him to finish a few of his checks a lot better than he did. He definitely had the opportunity but rather than use his size, he just put the body on the player enough to achieve a tie-up/gain puck possession/etc. That's okay, and he doesn't have to be a punishing hitter, but with that size, in the playoffs, I'd like to see him more willing to really put more mustard into playing the body.

As far as his speed goes, it was evident but I don't think he's as fast as Gaborik or Hagelin. Maybe his legs aren't 100% or he didn't gun it 100%, but if what I saw in that game was his top gear, than he's not as fast as I expected. That's not a problem; he's still plenty fast with room to burn, but there's been so much talk about him maybe being the fastest skater in the organization that I expected him to be faster. At the same time I will concede that because of his size and the fact that he's known for being in top speed almost from the very first stride, it may just not have been evident on television just how fast he actually is. Still, I expected to see him literally blowing past everybody and while he was quick, it wasn't what I was anticipating.

We never really got to see his shot and he didn't have many opportunities to show any kind of hands, so I obviously realize that there's a ton of his game yet to be examined and even the observations I've made above are 100% tentative and I'm no where NEAR feeling like I have a handle on what we've really got here with Kreider. From what I saw, he seems to make a hard, crisp pass that seems to find the tape, so even if he doesn't exactly have a playmaker's, touch I feel confident that he can move the puck efficiently and intelligently without hesitation, which I liked.

What stood out to me the most, after my initial feeling that his speed wasn't as blazing as I'd been waiting for, however, was that I felt he was ALWAYS in good position, and if I ever saw him not in the right position, I always noticed that he was not only already aware of where he should be, but on his way there. He seems to have a very, very solid understanding of where he is supposed to be on the ice, even when he's covering for another players or in transition. If he wasn't in position, he was on his way into position before I noticed it. Usually he was in position from the get go. I liked that. It instilled me with a lot of confidence in the basic fundamental of his game and it also signified, to me, that his priorities are in great order and that he's going to focus on the foundation of being an NHL hockey player, being in the right position, moving the puck and never being a liability, and than incorporate his strengths on top of that, incrementally. To me, his debut seemed very scholarly and his approach seemed very methodical. That's honestly what stood out to me the most. His game was extremely unremarkable, but he seemed to be making 100% certain that he was doing the all of the most basic things the right way and it gave me the sense that he will build on each and every game in a way that ensures he is never a liability.

I would like to see a little more intensity in the next game, but it's easy to understand how he could be lacking there last night. I'd like to see him use his body a little more heavily when the opportunity presents itself and after whistles, instead of skating away very unassumingly, stand next to (read: Over) an opponent or in front of Andersson for an extra second. He has an imposing physique; I'd love for him to maximize it's effect, even if he's not going to throw big hits. I think this will come with experience, comfort, and even age. It may take him a few years to develop that part of his game fully, but it's something I hope he learns to take advantage of sooner or later.

I'd like to see him open up his skating a little bit in the next game and go full throttle. I'm thinking he had a gear or two that we didn't get to see. I loved how he played sound positionally, especially in our end. He always made sure to be in the right place, he came back nice and deep for the breakout instead of forcing our dmen to have to make a stretch pass all the time, he covered the point when a dman pinched offensively and I think he played a very methodical, scholarly game which, depending on how you look at it, could actually be very impressive that he was able to attend to these details so consistently and so deliberately rather than get swept up and overwhelmed in that atmosphere and situation.

All in all, I wasn't really able to form ANY kind of opinion thus far on his skill set. In my final analysis at this point I can only say a few things. First, unless I am correct and he has another gear or two, he's not as fast as I expected. Second, because I get the feeling that he was conscientiously playing a very conservative game and didn't want to take himself out of position, take a penalty or even just allow Ottawa to move the puck too easily, he could stand to use his weight a little more in the physical game. I don't mean I expect, or even want, to see him looking for open ice hits or anything like that, I just think he could have shown his strength more when finishing his checks behind the goal line and along the boards. Third, while I can't comment on his actual skill as a passer, I can at least say that he seems like a confident, crisp and efficient puck mover, transitioning out of the zone. Finally, I think he's going to be a pretty smart player who rarely puts himself out of position and who we'll eventually be able to play in all situations. He seems to have a lot of attention to detail and I think he's going to be a very responsible, Torts kind of player. Whether he ever becomes a huge, game breaking talent, I feel confident he will be a solid, reliable NHL player who can probably slot into our lineup on any line and play ES, PP and PK.

I'm going to be paying extremely close attention to CK from here on out and refining my analysis and expanding upon it with each game. I hope to get a chance to see a little more of his skill set the next time he plays, and I'm interested to see how getting the jitters our and growing a bit more comfortable will effect his careful positioning and/or physical intensity. He definitely seemed to get a bit more comfortable and noticeable with each period. I'm eager to see how his game looks after a handful more games. I'm not looking for points and stats from CK. I just want to see HOW he plays the game, as time goes on.

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04-17-2012, 04:35 PM
  #244
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This brief post-season introduction to the NHL should give him a really good idea of what he needs to focus on with his off-season training and preparation for the start of next season.

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04-17-2012, 04:38 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Really harsh crowd in here.
I beg to differ. I see a lot of people calling it like it is. While many folks are excited about Kreider, Im trying not to lose sight of the big picture, which is this playoff run. And anyone who watched Kreider yesterday and thinks hes going to make any sort of positive impact in the next few weeks, they're fooling themselves.

Its like Tortorella said "the kid was thrown into a helluva situation," and Im happy he wasnt a clear negative out there. But Im also not going to compliment him because he didnt fall over himself in his first NHL game.

To put it simply, if John Mitchell went out there in a Kreider jersey last night, people would be fawning over his performance too, and thats just not right. Neither one did much of anything.

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04-17-2012, 04:45 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jskramer83 View Post
The second line here are two grinders and a power forward. The Third lines is full of playmakers, and skilled guys.

Lets swap Anisimov and Dubinsky and have a balance three lines.


Hagelin - Richards - Gaborik
Anisimov - Boyle - Callahan
Dubinsky - Stepan - Kreider
yeah, either way. I'd argue that Callahan is a do everything two-way player. Dubinsky is a two way grinder. he's a real good puck carrier / puck possession player who has been snake bitten this season. and Boyle is simply the best player on the team at the moment. Anisimov is another 2 way player. He is more of a playmaker but the man is one of the best danglers on the team and is a strong defensive anchor as well. He'd do fine on either line. Stepan is a playmaker, a 20 goal scoring playmaker but a playmaker all the same. Kreider is quite the shooter so i figure play him with people who can set him up. Those three should be cycling, not grinding. Grinding helps when you screw up the cycle but I figure you play Dubinsky-Boyle-Callahan against the Spezza line and wear those guys down with a stronger physical presence. Maybe line balance makes sense in Ottawa where they have last change so you swap does make a certain degree of good sense for game 4.

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04-17-2012, 04:48 PM
  #247
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He didn't cost us a goal, didn't make any dumb plays from what I saw. I'm satisfied.

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04-17-2012, 04:52 PM
  #248
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Kreider is on a 20-game winning streak.

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04-17-2012, 04:54 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Glad you added the last part. Hes clearly not ready, but the Rangers are short on bodies up front so here he is.

I think its a bit unfair to ask him to play physical when the game must've seemed like it was going 100 MPH all around him.

Wouldnt be surprised at all if he starts in the AHL next season to take the next logical step before being an NHL regular.
Considering Torts threw him into a playoff game as raw as can be, I find it hard to think that after an entire off-season training camp he would be playing in the AHL. I guess that could happen if he doesn't improve but it looks like he can only go up from here.

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04-17-2012, 04:57 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I beg to differ. I see a lot of people calling it like it is. While many folks are excited about Kreider, Im trying not to lose sight of the big picture, which is this playoff run. And anyone who watched Kreider yesterday and thinks hes going to make any sort of positive impact in the next few weeks, they're fooling themselves.

Its like Tortorella said "the kid was thrown into a helluva situation," and Im happy he wasnt a clear negative out there. But Im also not going to compliment him because he didnt fall over himself in his first NHL game.

To put it simply, if John Mitchell went out there in a Kreider jersey last night, people would be fawning over his performance too, and thats just not right. Neither one did much of anything.
I think if he scores just one goal or even an assist or two, I would consider that a "positive impact in the next few weeks." Isn't that hard to imagine him doing so... he almost scored last night, and that would've changed the whole game if he had.

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