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Old
04-17-2012, 05:58 PM
  #251
n8
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
I paid tremendous attention to Kreider last night because I haven't had much opportunity to see him play in the past and wanted to get a better feel for what he was all about. I will say that I was unable to do so, but I'm not terribly surprised by that.

From what I observed, Kreider played an extremely conservative game which is 100% understandable given the nature of his NHL debut, in what was arguably a 'must-win' game for the #1 seed in the playoffs. I also feel that being on the ice for Torts' practices all week contributed to how conservatively he played; not only would Torts be stressing the importance of playing mistake free, responsible hockey to the entire team, but you would not want to be the rookie who took a risk in your debut and even cost the team a scoring opportunity against, let alone a goal.

All of that said, I was really just looking to get a feel for some of his skill set and not expecting him, realistically, to do much. Now, I'm already aware that this is probably because of the fact that he was very self conscious and playing a conservative game, but he seemed a little disengaged from the physical side. At 6'3 230, with good speed, I wanted him to finish a few of his checks a lot better than he did. He definitely had the opportunity but rather than use his size, he just put the body on the player enough to achieve a tie-up/gain puck possession/etc. That's okay, and he doesn't have to be a punishing hitter, but with that size, in the playoffs, I'd like to see him more willing to really put more mustard into playing the body.

As far as his speed goes, it was evident but I don't think he's as fast as Gaborik or Hagelin. Maybe his legs aren't 100% or he didn't gun it 100%, but if what I saw in that game was his top gear, than he's not as fast as I expected. That's not a problem; he's still plenty fast with room to burn, but there's been so much talk about him maybe being the fastest skater in the organization that I expected him to be faster. At the same time I will concede that because of his size and the fact that he's known for being in top speed almost from the very first stride, it may just not have been evident on television just how fast he actually is. Still, I expected to see him literally blowing past everybody and while he was quick, it wasn't what I was anticipating.

We never really got to see his shot and he didn't have many opportunities to show any kind of hands, so I obviously realize that there's a ton of his game yet to be examined and even the observations I've made above are 100% tentative and I'm no where NEAR feeling like I have a handle on what we've really got here with Kreider. From what I saw, he seems to make a hard, crisp pass that seems to find the tape, so even if he doesn't exactly have a playmaker's, touch I feel confident that he can move the puck efficiently and intelligently without hesitation, which I liked.

What stood out to me the most, after my initial feeling that his speed wasn't as blazing as I'd been waiting for, however, was that I felt he was ALWAYS in good position, and if I ever saw him not in the right position, I always noticed that he was not only already aware of where he should be, but on his way there. He seems to have a very, very solid understanding of where he is supposed to be on the ice, even when he's covering for another players or in transition. If he wasn't in position, he was on his way into position before I noticed it. Usually he was in position from the get go. I liked that. It instilled me with a lot of confidence in the basic fundamental of his game and it also signified, to me, that his priorities are in great order and that he's going to focus on the foundation of being an NHL hockey player, being in the right position, moving the puck and never being a liability, and than incorporate his strengths on top of that, incrementally. To me, his debut seemed very scholarly and his approach seemed very methodical. That's honestly what stood out to me the most. His game was extremely unremarkable, but he seemed to be making 100% certain that he was doing the all of the most basic things the right way and it gave me the sense that he will build on each and every game in a way that ensures he is never a liability.

I would like to see a little more intensity in the next game, but it's easy to understand how he could be lacking there last night. I'd like to see him use his body a little more heavily when the opportunity presents itself and after whistles, instead of skating away very unassumingly, stand next to (read: Over) an opponent or in front of Andersson for an extra second. He has an imposing physique; I'd love for him to maximize it's effect, even if he's not going to throw big hits. I think this will come with experience, comfort, and even age. It may take him a few years to develop that part of his game fully, but it's something I hope he learns to take advantage of sooner or later.

I'd like to see him open up his skating a little bit in the next game and go full throttle. I'm thinking he had a gear or two that we didn't get to see. I loved how he played sound positionally, especially in our end. He always made sure to be in the right place, he came back nice and deep for the breakout instead of forcing our dmen to have to make a stretch pass all the time, he covered the point when a dman pinched offensively and I think he played a very methodical, scholarly game which, depending on how you look at it, could actually be very impressive that he was able to attend to these details so consistently and so deliberately rather than get swept up and overwhelmed in that atmosphere and situation.

All in all, I wasn't really able to form ANY kind of opinion thus far on his skill set. In my final analysis at this point I can only say a few things. First, unless I am correct and he has another gear or two, he's not as fast as I expected. Second, because I get the feeling that he was conscientiously playing a very conservative game and didn't want to take himself out of position, take a penalty or even just allow Ottawa to move the puck too easily, he could stand to use his weight a little more in the physical game. I don't mean I expect, or even want, to see him looking for open ice hits or anything like that, I just think he could have shown his strength more when finishing his checks behind the goal line and along the boards. Third, while I can't comment on his actual skill as a passer, I can at least say that he seems like a confident, crisp and efficient puck mover, transitioning out of the zone. Finally, I think he's going to be a pretty smart player who rarely puts himself out of position and who we'll eventually be able to play in all situations. He seems to have a lot of attention to detail and I think he's going to be a very responsible, Torts kind of player. Whether he ever becomes a huge, game breaking talent, I feel confident he will be a solid, reliable NHL player who can probably slot into our lineup on any line and play ES, PP and PK.

I'm going to be paying extremely close attention to CK from here on out and refining my analysis and expanding upon it with each game. I hope to get a chance to see a little more of his skill set the next time he plays, and I'm interested to see how getting the jitters our and growing a bit more comfortable will effect his careful positioning and/or physical intensity. He definitely seemed to get a bit more comfortable and noticeable with each period. I'm eager to see how his game looks after a handful more games. I'm not looking for points and stats from CK. I just want to see HOW he plays the game, as time goes on.
i noticed he had good positioning as well. i felt that he needs to hustle and move his feet more. A lot of the times, he just would stand there in place (without the puck) and not really help his teammate out by providing them options. I remember one situation where Gaborik was outnumbered and didn't have a lane anywhere. Kreider was just camping in front of the net but not really screening the goalie. I don't expect Gaborik to shoot in that situation so go to the boards and give him an option. you might get a give and go or just generally stall for time until help arrives to even the odds or create a lane for Gaborik to use. Standing still does nothing. He could definitely be more physical. With his speed, he should eventually learn to be one of our more dangerous forecheckers, but doubtful that will happen this post-season. It'll be interesting to see how he responds game-to-game. Was not a bad debut. It was no Derek Stepan hat-trick but still...

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04-17-2012, 06:37 PM
  #252
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To be clear, I like Kreider's game, and I think he will be an impact player moving forward. I don't necessarily think he needs time in the AHL. But he may need a training camp to be ready.

What I want to see from him in order to be comfortable with him in these playoffs is not scoring, not a Stepan-like debut. It's being engaged physically; finishing checks, going into the corners hard to battle for pucks, using his body to try and separate people from pucks, taking a hit to make a play. Turning away from Gonchar as someone mentioned before was just one of many examples of that type of behavior. This isn't about how he played in college, it is about what -every single Ranger- is expected to do on a nightly basis, even prior to the playoffs, including a star like Gaborik who isn't known for that type of play.

I'd like to see how he responds in his second game. If the team wins with him in the lineup in spite of him playing that way there isn't too much of an argument to take him out. But if he can't improve his engagement level then hard choices will have to be made.

Since people associate ANY negativity with criticism of his game, let me be clear again:

- I did not expect him to get a single goal or assist, or even to be very creative offensively or know where to go in the offensive zone
- I did not expect him to crush people, or hit to hurt

- I did expect him to skate hard, finish checks, and battle for pucks a la Gaborik
- I did expect him to have a clue in the defensive zone

I didn't see the things I expected of him.

Finally:

- I do not believe that evaluating his ability to play in THESE PLAYOFFS, right now, has any bearing on his long-term potential, or even potential for next season
- I do not think that playing scared in your first NHL game, on the first line, in the playoffs, means you're a bust

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04-17-2012, 06:41 PM
  #253
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I, personally never said Kreider was faster than Hagelin. I said he is a better skater than Hagelin.

And he is.

Hagelin's first step is amazing. He can do its because he is lighter, smaller. Chris has to take 230 lbs with him when he skates, so he isn't off the mark as fast. But if you hit him in stride he is lightning quick and can weave through people while having the frame to muscle them as well.

That is why he is dangerous. Size and skating. He doesn't have Gaborik's shot but I think that we can use him in a similar way to stretch the ice once he develops. On a different line.

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04-17-2012, 07:06 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I, personally never said Kreider was faster than Hagelin. I said he is a better skater than Hagelin.

And he is.

Hagelin's first step is amazing. He can do its because he is lighter, smaller. Chris has to take 230 lbs with him when he skates, so he isn't off the mark as fast. But if you hit him in stride he is lightning quick and can weave through people while having the frame to muscle them as well.

That is why he is dangerous. Size and skating. He doesn't have Gaborik's shot but I think that we can use him in a similar way to stretch the ice once he develops. On a different line.
See, I think Hagelin is a more agile skater, but Kreider in top gear is faster.

Everyone thinks Gaborik has slowed down because he doesn't get breakaways like he used to, but his top gear is still faster then Hagelin's as well. Players don't normally get the opportunity to skate as fast as they can in a regular game.

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04-17-2012, 07:09 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Kreider needs to play better to live up to his hype.
Please tell me this post was a joke. If not...wow.

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04-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
He was scared all night!! He will have to be a lot better than he was last night to stay in the line-up. I did not and have not seen what a lot of you are talking about as far as his physical presence goes. He is young and I think has a lot of talent but that does not always compute into a NHL star like some of you think.
Your misunderstanding of "physical presence" regarding Kreider shows you have never watched him prior to this game, so maybe you shouldn't judge him on one game?

There is more to physical presence then running around crushing people, Kreider doesn't do that. He bounces off of check well, and use his body to protect the puck and create space for his teammates. He was never a battering ram, if you're looking for that type of physical presence we have Dylan McIlrath in the system.

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04-17-2012, 07:24 PM
  #257
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Oh shiz! NHL 12 roster update! Kreider is in baby!

They have him listed as a RW. Fail EA... Oh and he's a 74 overall if you're wondering.

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04-17-2012, 07:28 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
Oh shiz! NHL 12 roster update! Kreider is in baby!

They have him listed as a RW. Fail EA... Oh and he's a 74 overall if you're wondering.
Hay butt w8. Didnt every1 hear say that Kreider would score 50 goals immediately cuz hes so good!???

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04-17-2012, 07:29 PM
  #259
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Hay butt w8. Didnt every1 hear say that Kreider would score 50 goals immediately cuz hes so good!???
EA didn't get the memo, apparently.

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04-17-2012, 07:35 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
Oh shiz! NHL 12 roster update! Kreider is in baby!

They have him listed as a RW. Fail EA... Oh and he's a 74 overall if you're wondering.
he was playing a light of RW for BC this season.

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04-17-2012, 07:36 PM
  #261
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Anyone else see a star struck kid out there when watching Kreider? His offensive game was all about deferring to star players Gaborik and Richards last night. To be honest, can't blame him - anyone in his situation would be too.

Kreider definitely played tentatively in his first game, and after watching the first two games, and the intensity - and brutality, of those first two games from the box its understandable that he would be tentative entering that kind of atmosphere in his NHL debut. I also noticed that none of the Senators did much to push his buttons last night. When I'm playing a pick up game in any sport, with guys I didn't know, the smack talking kind of loosens me up, makes me play and go at it without thinking so much - of course I don't have to go back to a bench with a guy like Torts ready to chew my head off if I make any sort of mental mistake lol.

Anyone else notice his first shift? The first time the puck came into his area is the most noticeable his speed was all game, he had an absolute burst to that puck that was very impressive. I think his and Hagelins speed are hard to compare. Hagelin has that incredible short area burst, Kreider imo, at that size/length needs a few strides to open up - at which point his speed is probably greater than Hagelins. To expect the same type of speed impact from Hagelin to Kreider on that first line is silly, two different types of speed. I feel as though Kreider chooses his spots, is a bit more methodical in his game, needs the open ice to showcase his speed, whereas Hags is just the energizer bunny its all systems go when he's skating.

Did notice Kreider wasn't that strong in the corners, especially on one play on I believe his second shift, I bet he got chewed out on the bench by Torts because he kind of shyed away. Can't really say I expected him to be great in this area, but to his credit he did have some wins in the corners without really having to give/take too much body to win the puck.

Like many others I did like his defensive awareness and positioning. Knew where to be, where to drop in for shifting players. No doubt he was concentrating more on defense than offense last night, the pain of being the shmuck responsible for a loss is much worse than the joy you get from scoring a game winning goal (my opinion, of course).

All-in-all I'm excited to see more of him. Part of me thinks his game may open up on a lower line, where he wont be so star struck. Definitely expect a more defensive oriented Chris Kreider in the playoffs this year than we'll see the rest of his career. You can tell he doesn't want to be the @** who makes the defensive mistake that costs the team a game. Clearly focused on the defensive side of things, rightfully so.

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04-17-2012, 07:40 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Obviously Hagelin plays upon return.
Unless we're overlooking something, clearly Mitchell is the sit out for CK, like Wally Pipp for Lou Gehrig, except Pipp showed more before he got replaced.

I could see giving Fedetenko a game off to stay fresh, maybe Rupp.
But those would be next series, and I see Scott a viable alternative to Mitchell (or Bickel to LW, Scott to LD).

In any event, Kreider should be here to stay going forward.

Wait til he's got about 10 games experience under his belt.
He won't be as tentantive, a little more reliant on his instincts. ...

Oh, yeah...

I think Feds and Rupp stay in barring injuries, these guys are doing what they're supposed to and have been there before, seeing some of the nerves being shown by the younger players (looking at Step here), having guys that grind it out, and give the coach a known quantity is good to have. Mitch has neither, and he's given us some solid shifts, but I take Kreider in for Mitch any day of the week.

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04-17-2012, 07:41 PM
  #263
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Oh and his conditioning - totally gassed after a shift compared to the rest of the guys.

Again, nitpicking, I don't think we're going to see the same guy as we're seeing in these playoffs the rest of his career. He's clearly focused on not making defensive or mental mistakes - not focused on scoring at this time in his career.

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04-17-2012, 08:17 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Please tell me this post was a joke. If not...wow.
This is HF Boards. The general attitude towards top prospects is best summed up as:



Two days ago, Kreider was worth more than God. Now he's played an NHL game. He is automatically worthless, haha.

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04-17-2012, 08:21 PM
  #265
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This is HF Boards. The general attitude towards top prospects is best summed up as:



Two days ago, Kreider was worth more than God. Now he's played an NHL game. He is automatically worthless, haha.
Until he scores his first goal, than he is Chris Christ. I swear there is no middle ground.

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04-17-2012, 08:37 PM
  #266
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I said a bigger, slightly more physical version of Tony Amonte.

Looks like I'm right so far.

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04-17-2012, 08:43 PM
  #267
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I said a bigger, slightly more physical version of Tony Amonte.

Looks like I'm right so far.
Looking forward for the journey from deer in headlights to a perennial 30 goal scorer.

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04-17-2012, 08:48 PM
  #268
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Man, with all the sentiment all over the place in the thread, the main impression I'm left with is... I can't wait to watch him for myself next game!

(STUPID EFFING DVR!)

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04-17-2012, 08:54 PM
  #269
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Bust trade him!

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04-17-2012, 08:54 PM
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kreider was a complete liability when on the ice last night. outside of the bad line change/fanning on the rebound (that happens)- he was easily pushed off the puck for the turnover on 4 or 5 occasions. nothing against the kid- but i wasnt sure before last night if he was even ready for the NHL season much less the playoffs.. after last night i dont think there is any way torts should play him again this year. unfortunately they are burning a year of his contract in the process..

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04-17-2012, 08:56 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by collegehockeyguy View Post
kreider was a complete liability last night. pushed off the puck every time he touched it, bad line change, fanned on a rebound. nothing against the kid- but i wasnt sure before last night if he was even ready for the NHL season much less the playoffs.. after last night i dont think there is any way torts should play him again this year. unfortunately they are burning a year of his contract in the process..
Such a bad post....... More like every thing you mentioned was in the 1st period.

He had a very solid game from then on out as a rookie debuting in game 3 of a playoff series.

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04-17-2012, 08:59 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
Such a bad post....... More like every thing you mentioned was in the 1st period.

He had a very solid game from then on out as a rookie debuting in game 3 of a playoff series.
ok Mrs. Kreider

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04-17-2012, 09:03 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by collegehockeyguy View Post
ok Mrs. Kreider
Really? Cuz I was insulting you, right? Did I hurt your feelings stating that I thought your post was bad? Jesus, skip straight to the name calling. Get a life.

Anyone who has a sensible brain should be very happy with how he played. You do realize it was his first NHL game, right? Besides ONE bad line change and a missed scoring opportunity (yea, I forgot everyone is supposed to score on every chance they get, especially when they are a rookie in their first game), he played a damn fine game for an NHL debut.

Oh and did you even watch the third period? Kreider and his line had two GREAT shifts where Kreider really came into his own and looked comfortable. He wasn't getting knocked off the puck after the 1st period.

So how about instead of name calling, back up your explanation as to why he was such a liability for missing a scoring chance and having one bad line change. Thanks.

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04-17-2012, 09:11 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Everyday Im Hagelin View Post
Really? Cuz I was insulting you, right? Did I hurt your feelings stating that I thought your post was bad? Jesus, skip straight to the name calling. Get a life.

Anyone who has a sensible brain should be very happy with how he played. You do realize it was his first NHL game, right? Besides ONE bad line change and a missed scoring opportunity (yea, I forgot everyone is supposed to score on every chance they get, especially when they are a rookie in their first game), he played a damn fine game for an NHL debut.

Oh and did you even watch the third period? Kreider and his line had two GREAT shifts where Kreider really came into his own and looked comfortable. He wasn't getting knocked off the puck after the 1st period.

So how about instead of name calling, back up your explanation as to why he was such a liability for missing a scoring chance and having one bad line change. Thanks.
you are defending him wildly enough to warrant me joking at the idea of you being a family member of his. it was a joke- i didnt mean to offend you.

the kid is a rookie. i dont think any rookie should make their debut in the playoffs. its not the right time- and honestly i dont know how you can argue that after watching him last night. i dont care about his line change or fanning the rebound- and if you can show me a video of him winning 1 puck battle in the corner and coming out with the puck (1st 2nd or 3rd period) ill back off my statement. i dont think im insulting him by saying i thought he was a liability. you said it yourself- it was his nhl debut in playoff hockey. id be more concerned about his confidence as a young professional beginning his career than i am anything else. im sure he will have a nice nhl career- but he did not look like a positive contributor in the offensive or defensive end- and i did make a point to watch him both with and without the puck. was only being honest. go rangers

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04-17-2012, 09:12 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by collegehockeyguy View Post
kreider was a complete liability when on the ice last night. outside of the bad line change/fanning on the rebound (that happens)- he was easily pushed off the puck for the turnover on 4 or 5 occasions. nothing against the kid- but i wasnt sure before last night if he was even ready for the NHL season much less the playoffs.. after last night i dont think there is any way torts should play him again this year. unfortunately they are burning a year of his contract in the process..

OK BU fan !!!

It was his first game. No training camp, no preseason, no season with the Rangers. He didn't cough up the puck for a goal, wasn't a liability in the defensive zone, made some good passes and for-checked OK. Oh, and his skating .... I think he handled himself admirably.

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