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Old
04-16-2012, 09:56 PM
  #1
sully61
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Supplements

Does anyone know of some good supplements (protein shakes mainly) for off season workouts?

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04-16-2012, 11:46 PM
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Saucy Dangles
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Does anyone know of some good supplements (protein shakes mainly) for off season workouts?
I've been using this right after my workouts as well as after practice and games (like get off ice and drink this immediately). Been working good.

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04-17-2012, 02:52 AM
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Thepandamancan
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I use glutamine (in a powder form) before and during games. It's great for reducing muscle pains after games or workouts. Guy at GNC told me to mix it in with a protein shake 2 hours before said activity and again during and/or after. I usually mix it in with my gatorade during games.

Really helps take away the aches and pains the next morning and I can go right away to training/playing without feeling like absolute crap.

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04-17-2012, 03:37 AM
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As you already say you do not really need anything else than whey protein. You also do not really need isolates. There are some debate if they're really any better than simple, filtered whey. Difficult to say which are the best on the market, but I guess the most popular are the Optimum 100% Whey Gold. I think it is mainly because of taste, as they're real good with pure water. If you're not a boidybuilder and prefer to drink your shake with whole milk as I do than I find Scitec's 100% Whey Professional the best tasting. Of course there are a LOT of different tastes, so you have to find out yourself which one you like.

I would not invest anything more in supplements, but if you REALLY have no idea what to do with your money you can add BCAA as well. Also Casein has been shown to improve protein synthesis during night's rest.

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04-17-2012, 08:59 AM
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Whole food > Whole Milk > Pasteurized Egg Whites > > > > > > Whey/Other proteins.

Seriously. You do not need protein powder AND there are real food alternatives that are cheaper. 1 can of tuna contains ~40 grams of protein. 1 cup of pasteurized egg whites contains ~30g. Each of these servings are under a dollar and do not come with artificial sweeteners or coloring.

The most important supplement you can take is a GOOD fishoil, and that is only because most foods have been made ****** by modernization and lack the essential omega-3s. For instance, if you get and eat grass-fed beef / wild fish regularly you will likely not need to take fishoil/ reduce your dosage.

I use three supplements + a multivitamin:
Fish Oil
BCAAs
Glutamine

I only take the BCAA's and Glutamine because I train fasted + delay eating out of circumstance for 2 hours after training. I take 10g straight BCAA's before working out and then every hour before eating I take 5g BCAA and 5g Glutamine. I use PVL essentials unflavored to avoid putting chemicals in my body - but that is personal preference.

My recommendation would be to take the BCAA in place of a protein shake if you can't get to real food within the hour of finishing your workout.

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04-17-2012, 09:50 AM
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It depends on what your goals are. If you are bulking up in the gym you DO need protein. If you can get protein from whole food that's great but if your doing weight training with the goal of adding size you need around 1g of protein for every pound you weigh so that can become ALOT of food. Im about 210lbs and without Protein powders Id be eating way too much and too often. I drink 2 protein shakes a day MINIMUM 1 when i wake up with a banana or berries, and more importantly one immediately after workouts. The conveneinces cant be overlooked not to mention the concentration of amino acids

As a previous poster said fish oil is great as well and should be in EVERYONES diet. Besides helping lower blood pressure and cholesteral it helps reduce joint pain which is the main reason I take it. If you can get salmon oil do it...but really any are fine.

As far as protein goes... stop in to the local GNC or vitamin shoppe and they can help steer you in a good direction.

If your not looking to get that serious simply drink a few glasses of chocolate milk after a skate or light workout-youd be surprised how much it helps recovery.

Really recovery after working out or exercise boil down to 2 things: fuel (protein) and a crap load of water...make sure you get enough of both

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04-17-2012, 10:07 AM
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Good advice here.

Nutrition from food is the best option. If you're skinny, adding whole milk is the cheapest and best way to add calories to your diet. If you need additional protein on top of that, whey can help, but ideally you get your diet right and it should fall into place.

I'll have to look into glutamine. I do get pretty sore and wiped out with these workouts.

Bacon, are you just drinking the pasteurized egg whites or are you cooking them?

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04-17-2012, 10:36 AM
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If you're trying to bulk up, Real Mass by Gaspari Nutrition.

If you're trying to shred down and gain lean muscle....look for something with lower calories/fat/carbs like the Lean Body Whey by Labrada. Also, the Gaspari Probiotic Myofusion series has great numbers.

You may want to consider a multi vitamin like Animal Pak, Orange Triad, Opti-Men or Anavite.

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04-17-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Good advice here.

Nutrition from food is the best option. If you're skinny, adding whole milk is the cheapest and best way to add calories to your diet. If you need additional protein on top of that, whey can help, but ideally you get your diet right and it should fall into place.

I'll have to look into glutamine. I do get pretty sore and wiped out with these workouts.

Bacon, are you just drinking the pasteurized egg whites or are you cooking them?
I normally cook three cups worth in various things. 1 cups + 2 eggs with 3 cups spinach 1 turkey sausage mixed together and cooked like an omelette filled with avocado and one of pea-meal bacon (another cheap source of protein) or regular bacon depending on my macro goals.

Post workout meal often includes 2cups mixed with 4tbsp of coconut flour and a tbsp or so of water cooked thin like a crepes (normally 3-6 depending on how careful I want to be - thinner is tastier, but also harder to manage) and stuffed with a filling that is 2cups raspberries, 1 banana, 2tbsp almond butter.

HOWEVER, sometimes I drink them out of the carton like a boss. However, my laziness trumps all other things in my life. You can also mix with unsweetened almond milk to add some fat / cut the taste.

You can also add them to shakes. IF you use whey, there are some pretty delicious recipes out there. Here is my go to if something comes up and I can't get real food (I also have one chocolate and one vanilla protein tub in the house, just in case):
1/2 cup Water
1/2 cup Ice (use more for a thicker shake and less water)
2 scoops MPI/Casein, Chocolate (I use an egg white mpi mix, but it really doesn't matter)
1 cup pasturized egg whites
1 oz Pecan Halves, chopped
2 tbsp Natural Peanut Butter (I use almond butter because peanuts are legume's and upset my stomach.
1 tbsp Udo's Oil (I just take capsulated fishoil)
1 tbsp Greens+ (I normally would just eat some spinach. Greens+ is expensive and ruins things taste wise.)

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04-17-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepandamancan View Post
I use glutamine (in a powder form) before and during games. It's great for reducing muscle pains after games or workouts. Guy at GNC told me to mix it in with a protein shake 2 hours before said activity and again during and/or after. I usually mix it in with my gatorade during games.

Really helps take away the aches and pains the next morning and I can go right away to training/playing without feeling like absolute crap.
I got turned on to glutamine a few months ago and the stuff seems to be working wonders. I use the AST GL3 in the pill form. I still do my normal protein drink after a workout or game but now i take a pill before a game, after the game and one in the morning. I play 3 or 4 times a week and used to get pretty sore but it is now almost unnoticeable.

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04-17-2012, 02:33 PM
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BaconStrips
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Originally Posted by Wildturkey12 View Post
I got turned on to glutamine a few months ago and the stuff seems to be working wonders. I use the AST GL3 in the pill form. I still do my normal protein drink after a workout or game but now i take a pill before a game, after the game and one in the morning. I play 3 or 4 times a week and used to get pretty sore but it is now almost unnoticeable.
Do you take a standard 2:1:1 BCAA or just the glutamine? I see people taking glutamine with no mention of the normal BCAA stack and am curious.

I started with the BCAA stack and added glutamine when I found a tub on sale. So far, I can't tell a difference. But it has only been a couple of weeks, where I have been taking BCAA's for what seems like an entirety.

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04-17-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
Does anyone know of some good supplements (protein shakes mainly) for off season workouts?
how about just straight whey protein mixed with milk?

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04-17-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BaconStrips View Post
Whole food > Whole Milk > Pasteurized Egg Whites > > > > > > Whey/Other proteins.

Seriously. You do not need protein powder AND there are real food alternatives that are cheaper. 1 can of tuna contains ~40 grams of protein. 1 cup of pasteurized egg whites contains ~30g. Each of these servings are under a dollar and do not come with artificial sweeteners or coloring.

The most important supplement you can take is a GOOD fishoil, and that is only because most foods have been made ****** by modernization and lack the essential omega-3s. For instance, if you get and eat grass-fed beef / wild fish regularly you will likely not need to take fishoil/ reduce your dosage.

I use three supplements + a multivitamin:
Fish Oil
BCAAs
Glutamine

I only take the BCAA's and Glutamine because I train fasted + delay eating out of circumstance for 2 hours after training. I take 10g straight BCAA's before working out and then every hour before eating I take 5g BCAA and 5g Glutamine. I use PVL essentials unflavored to avoid putting chemicals in my body - but that is personal preference.

My recommendation would be to take the BCAA in place of a protein shake if you can't get to real food within the hour of finishing your workout.
+1 on fish oil.

if you are not fasting, don't bother with BCAA's. Milk and whey already contains many more BCAA's than the 5-10g or whatever you take.

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04-17-2012, 04:10 PM
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BaconStrips
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+1 on fish oil.

if you are not fasting, don't bother with BCAA's. Milk and whey already contains many more BCAA's than the 5-10g or whatever you take.
I agree with a caveat. Not everyone can tolerate milk and/or whey. I would bother with BCAA's if you can't workout on a full stomach and/or don't handle diary well. My performance suffers - especially in activities like hockey - if I eat a couple of hours beforehand. But I have a ridiculously fussy stomach. They aren't necessary post-workout if you are eating right away (on days where my life is awesome, I just take them pre-workout and get my standard post-workout meal in). Whey can also be used pre-workout and comes in better flavors. There is also the tried and true 2:1 carb to protein mix that seems to be less popular lately. I prefer making my first post-work meal a meal though. I find I am more satisfied mentally.

If you do use whey/can tolerate it regularly - I am jealous of you AND really recommend this EDIT: in cinnabun flavor - that says milk chocolate :


The other thing I would stress is to read the labels and avoid anything that says proprietary blend. The health benefits of a 2:1:1 BCAA's supplement, 2:1 Carb/Protein, Fish oil have been scientifically shown in some capacity. Some of the other stuff, not so much. Furthermore, some pre-workout supplements have some crazy stimulants. If you aren't used to them, they can be dangerous. Personally, I like a small cup of watered down black coffee if I need a kick.

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04-17-2012, 04:14 PM
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I've tried fasted training and got really wiped out quickly. I just eat a little smaller dinner and a little bigger PWO meal.

I'm lucky I have zero allergies or reactions to anything. Oddly I think every girl I've ever dated has been lactose intolerant.

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04-17-2012, 04:15 PM
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Does anyone have a "get into it" set up for diet / workouts?

I've played hockey for a season and a half, I am in average shape. 6'0 188 lbs but a bit of paunch on the belly.

I am looking to get better at hockey - I don't know that the fasting / stacks etc are quite what I am interested in but if it's what it takes I can get on board.

Does anyone have a good starting / jumping off place to look? I am currently leaning towards a cross-fit type setup in my garage. (new house, large empty garage / shop) as well as a shooting pad and net

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04-17-2012, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BaconStrips View Post
Do you take a standard 2:1:1 BCAA or just the glutamine? I see people taking glutamine with no mention of the normal BCAA stack and am curious.

I started with the BCAA stack and added glutamine when I found a tub on sale. So far, I can't tell a difference. But it has only been a couple of weeks, where I have been taking BCAA's for what seems like an entirety.
Just straight glutamine.

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04-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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Well I'll let you know this summer how I'm progressing. I can tell you weight lifting plus eating a lot of food puts on muscle AND fat, but I'm not so good at getting rid of fat.

I've just started splitting out meals in Zone proportions as the Crossfitters seem to do really well on it. Mostly good foods and not processed crap. Apparently I can't estimate how much food I should eat.

I am a lot quicker and stronger doing squats and deadlifts though. Had lots of compliments from my teammates and even opposing players on my speed after a month.

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04-17-2012, 04:30 PM
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I've transitioned to good foods as I've grown older. I rarely eat processed foods and have been staying away from the red meats just because of how they treat my stomach. It's a ***** getting older hehe. I'd like to hear how it goes for you Jarick - I'll be starting up in earnest May 1. I close on my house the 26th and will have all my gear in by then.

New kitchen, new pantry, etc etc. Start right and go.

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04-17-2012, 04:40 PM
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I've lost 52lbs. in 31 weeks by loosely following the meal plans from Kris Gethin's Body By Design book + supplementation (Whey, Casein, BCAA's, Fish Oil, Glutamine) I of course workout but if I ate strictly every day, I'd prob have lost 60lbs by now.

For those saying "get your protein from milk and foods" — there are instances in which people are trying to lose weight. While the natural protein values in milk is great, having massive amounts of dairy is counter productive to weight loss.

For example:

WHOLE MILK
1 Cup (244g)
146 Calories
8g Fat (5 of which are saturated)
98mg Sodium
13g Carbs
13g Sugar
8g Protein


BRAND A PROTEIN WHEY POWDER
1 Scoop (39g)
150 Calories
2g Fat (1 saturated)
220mg Sodium
9g Carbs
3g Sugar
24g Protein


To equal the amount of protein in ONE scoop of Whey, you would need to drink 3 cups of Milk. By doing so, you increase your Calories, Carbs, Sugar three times. I don't know about you but I don't like the looks of the 39g of Sugar, 24g Fat and 39g Carbs...

3 Cups Milk
438 Calories
24g Fat
39g Carbs
39g Sugar
24g Protein


In terms of hitting your daily protein "goal" or "need", a person trying to gain muscle and maintaining muscle while losing fat, you need to consume 1g - 1.5g per pound of body weight.

Do the math and think about it. Whey is a huge boost to meet your daily protein needs when training.

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04-17-2012, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opivy View Post
Does anyone have a "get into it" set up for diet / workouts?

I've played hockey for a season and a half, I am in average shape. 6'0 188 lbs but a bit of paunch on the belly.

I am looking to get better at hockey - I don't know that the fasting / stacks etc are quite what I am interested in but if it's what it takes I can get on board.

Does anyone have a good starting / jumping off place to look? I am currently leaning towards a cross-fit type setup in my garage. (new house, large empty garage / shop) as well as a shooting pad and net
DON"T FAST - at least not yet. I love fasting. People I know love fasting. BUT they were all experienced OR had someone guiding them either in person or online. It isn't something you should just jump into.

I would first recommend learning about food itself. Watch the documentary food inc. Do some reading. Learning what you put in your body is the first step. Just remember to take everything with a grain of salt (pun intended).

The first thing I would do is start taking a fish oil supplement. I am not sure what is available in the states, but look for something with a high EPA/DHA content. Here is a quote from a pretty straight forward article:

Quote:
Aim for 6-12 daily grams of total fish oil (about 3-6 grams of EPA + DHA) per day from a supplement company that doesn’t contribute directly to the depletion of fish (e.g., they use primarily fish discards). We suggest liquid fish oil, because it’s hard to take so many capsules, and because some supplement companies put lower-quality oil into capsules (or secretly cut it with soy oil). Buy from a reputable company.
I am not sure what brands are avalible in your area BUT last I heard, the COSTCO brand was actually repacked Ocean Nutrition . This is a large wholesaler and many companies actually sell this brand in various quality levels.

After you have done that, anymore recommendations really depend on your specific goals/current diet/current body composition. Despite what is on the internet, there is no one size fits all diet and everyone needs to find what works for them based on trial and error. BUT there are some simple things you can do. Eat at least three meals a day and one or two snacks. Try to limit the amount of whey/liquid calories to one meal. A good way to ensure minimums are met is to take a plate and put a palm sized piece of protein on it. Fill the rest of the plate with vegetables. If it is after a workout, add some carbohydrates (rice, sweet potato, quinoa). A handful of nuts or a tablespoon of almond butter/coconut oil/un-heated olive oil should also be included in at least three of meals/snacks.

A staple of mine is a large salad. I normally eat two palms of protein minimum, but everyone is differant. I would take a chicken breast, 2 pieces of bacon, 2 eggs, some red onion and put it on top of four cups of either mixed greens or spinach. You can change the protein around. I have used tuna and egg, but don't recommend it! This dressing goes well with it:

1 cup extra virgin olive oil
1/4 cup balsamic vinegar
1 garlic clove, finely minced
1 tsp dijon mustard
1 tsp raw honey (I don't keep honey in the house, so I skip this and its fine)
1 Tbs lemon juice
1 tsp sea salt
1/2 tsp freshly ground black pepper
1 tsp dried herbs of choice (basil, thyme, chives, rosemary, oregano, tarragon)

Put everything in a blender/foodprocessor/whisk by hand EXCEPT the oil. Mix together . Then slowly add olive oil. Add a couple of tablespoons to your salad.

Diet is all about learning what to eat and why. I really recommend reading around on this site:
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/
I have cookbook recommendations, but it really depends on your dietary restrictions/likes. I also recommend this, but it is a bit pricey:

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04-17-2012, 04:51 PM
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Milk would be more for skinny people trying to get bigger. They need calories plain and simple, not just protein. Milk isn't a great source like you said.

The other issue would be calorie density. A scoop of whey might have as much protein as a can of tuna or a small chicken breast, but I'd be willing to bet the whey digests quicker and causes more of an insulin spike. That's a good thing post workout but not if you're trying to cut calories and blunt hunger.

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04-17-2012, 05:00 PM
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BaconStrips
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Originally Posted by Hextall27 View Post
It depends on what your goals are. If you are bulking up in the gym you DO need protein. If you can get protein from whole food that's great but if your doing weight training with the goal of adding size you need around 1g of protein for every pound you weigh so that can become ALOT of food. Im about 210lbs and without Protein powders Id be eating way too much and too often. I drink 2 protein shakes a day MINIMUM 1 when i wake up with a banana or berries, and more importantly one immediately after workouts. The conveneinces cant be overlooked not to mention the concentration of amino acids

As a previous poster said fish oil is great as well and should be in EVERYONES diet. Besides helping lower blood pressure and cholesteral it helps reduce joint pain which is the main reason I take it. If you can get salmon oil do it...but really any are fine.

As far as protein goes... stop in to the local GNC or vitamin shoppe and they can help steer you in a good direction.

If your not looking to get that serious simply drink a few glasses of chocolate milk after a skate or light workout-youd be surprised how much it helps recovery.

Really recovery after working out or exercise boil down to 2 things: fuel (protein) and a crap load of water...make sure you get enough of both

Quote:
Originally Posted by mug25 View Post
I've lost 52lbs. in 31 weeks by loosely following the meal plans from Kris Gethin's Body By Design book + supplementation (Whey, Casein, BCAA's, Fish Oil, Glutamine) I of course workout but if I ate strictly every day, I'd prob have lost 60lbs by now.

For those saying "get your protein from milk and foods" there are instances in which people are trying to lose weight. While the natural protein values in milk is great, having massive amounts of dairy is counter productive to weight loss.

For example:

WHOLE MILK
1 Cup (244g)
146 Calories
8g Fat (5 of which are saturated)
98mg Sodium
13g Carbs
13g Sugar
8g Protein


BRAND A PROTEIN WHEY POWDER
1 Scoop (39g)
150 Calories
2g Fat (1 saturated)
220mg Sodium
9g Carbs
3g Sugar
24g Protein


To equal the amount of protein in ONE scoop of Whey, you would need to drink 3 cups of Milk. By doing so, you increase your Calories, Carbs, Sugar three times. I don't know about you but I don't like the looks of the 39g of Sugar, 24g Fat and 39g Carbs...

3 Cups Milk
438 Calories
24g Fat
39g Carbs
39g Sugar
24g Protein


In terms of hitting your daily protein "goal" or "need", a person trying to gain muscle and maintaining muscle while losing fat, you need to consume 1g - 1.5g per pound of body weight.

Do the math and think about it. Whey is a huge boost to meet your daily protein needs when training.
I lost 5% bodyfat in 30 days (plus 15 of experimentation) using only whole food and BCAAs. I only eat 2 to 3 times per day. Keep in mind I went from 15-18 BF to around 11-13 BF. I was/am eating at least 260g of protein every day and on some days eat 3000+ calories. I also never eclipse 200g of carbs. Like I posted earlier, there are many sources of "easy" protein that are similar in macro-nutrient breakdown to whey. They include:

Tuna
Cup of Egg Whites
Peameal Bacon
Greek Yogurt
Homemade Beef Jerky / Other meats can be used and are even leaner

With some planning, it is easy to get protein without relaying on Whey. I spend maybe 6 hours a week in the kitchen. It could be less, but I like making dinners. If whey works for you, great. But you should learn to eat without it before adding it in.

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04-17-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Milk would be more for skinny people trying to get bigger. They need calories plain and simple, not just protein. Milk isn't a great source like you said.

The other issue would be calorie density. A scoop of whey might have as much protein as a can of tuna or a small chicken breast, but I'd be willing to bet the whey digests quicker and causes more of an insulin spike. That's a good thing post workout but not if you're trying to cut calories and blunt hunger.
Yes. The Whey Powder digests very fast but you also have a Slow Digesting Protein in the form of Casein.

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04-17-2012, 05:02 PM
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Country: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Milk would be more for skinny people trying to get bigger. They need calories plain and simple, not just protein. Milk isn't a great source like you said.

The other issue would be calorie density. A scoop of whey might have as much protein as a can of tuna or a small chicken breast, but I'd be willing to bet the whey digests quicker and causes more of an insulin spike. That's a good thing post workout but not if you're trying to cut calories and blunt hunger.
It isn't as mentally satisfying either. If I drink 500 calories I do not feel nearly as satisfied/satiated as if I had eaten a can of tuna, some spinach, eggs, and some olive oil/avocado.

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