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Leafs Line-up When The Nhl Returns!!

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Old
12-08-2004, 04:47 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
The old CBA did the exact opposite it favoured the Big Market rich teams who could afford to sign all the TOP UFA while the small market ones had to sit around and just watch as the Guerin's, Belfour's, Hatcher's went for the big money ...

In the old CBA agreement the weaker, small market teams sat around and watched the big market ones snap up the top UFA each year and get stronger .. Now the shoe is on the other foot .. Big Market $$$ no longer will drive UFA and give them an advantage in the NHL .. In fact it becomes an direct disadvantage in the a CAP WORLD .. right now ....

The Leafs and Philly and Dallas and Colorado and Detroit and NYR and St. Louis will sit around on their hands and watch Columbus, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, Carolina, Phoenix, Florida, Nashville snap up all the PRIME UFA on the market ..

A Hard Cap puts an end to all the foolishness that has gone on for so long and Leafs have to pay the price for change and survival of the NHL ...Sad but True
Yeah, it sounds so romantic and just, doesn't it?

You'll see.

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12-08-2004, 05:17 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
Yeah, it sounds so romantic and just, doesn't it?

You'll see.
Pep .. We did already see ..

All the teams I mentioned as Big Market top Salary teams .. Leafs and Philly and Dallas and Colorado and Detroit and NYR and St. Louis etc .. had from June 1st to Sept 15th to sign all or any of the big Market UFA and none of them signed a single PRIMIER one .. No one .. NOTHING

In fact St Louis walked away from Demitra, Dallas attempted to unload Guerin to Florida ..St. Louis tried to get rid of Weight or Tkachuk .. Philly let Zhamnov and Recchi walked away, considering buy out Leclair and Amonte and signed a few depth role players Knuble and Turner Stevenson.. Coloardo let Kariya and Selanne walk and signed a role player or two. Detroit made Shanahan take a big pay cut and let Hull and Schneider walk away ... Toronto signed only their own players in the UFA period .. NYR signed ZERO UFA ...

The signs are all there Pep you have to look to see ..The world is changing in the NHL .. The big market teams had 3 1/2 months to sign the Lindros, Kariya, Kovalev's of the world and none did .. NO competition from anyone, no bidding war ..nothing ... and what happened to all the UFA talent ..??

How do you explain these kinds of moves and then the next minute when a new CBA is signed these teams are going to run out there and snap up all these players when the really are more concerned about cleaning house ....??

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12-08-2004, 05:23 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Pep .. We did already see ..

All the teams I mentioned as Big Market top Salary teams .. Leafs and Philly and Dallas and Colorado and Detroit and NYR and St. Louis etc .. had from June 1st to Sept 15th to sign all or any of the big Market UFA and none of them signed a single PRIMIER one .. No one .. NOTHING

In fact St Louis walked away from Demitra, Dallas attempted to unload Guerin to Florida ..St. Louis tried to get rid of Weight or Tkachuk .. Philly let Zhamnov and Recchi walked away, considering buy out Leclair and Amonte and signed a few depth role players Knuble and Turner Stevenson.. Coloardo let Kariya and Selanne walk and signed a role player or two. Detroit made Shanahan take a big pay cut and let Hull and Schneider walk away ... Toronto signed only their own players in the UFA period .. NYR signed ZERO UFA ...

The signs are all there Pep you have to look to see ..The world is changing in the NHL .. The big market teams had 3 1/2 months to sign the Lindros, Kariya, Kovalev's of the world and none did .. NO competition from anyone, no bidding war ..nothing ... and what happened to all the UFA talent ..??

How do you explain these kinds of moves and then the next minute when a new CBA is signed these teams are going to run out there and snap up all these players when the really are more concerned about cleaning house ....??
i'm not sure but didnt NYR sign Weekes sorry if im picky.

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Old
12-08-2004, 05:54 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Pep .. We did already see ..

All the teams I mentioned as Big Market top Salary teams .. Leafs and Philly and Dallas and Colorado and Detroit and NYR and St. Louis etc .. had from June 1st to Sept 15th to sign all or any of the big Market UFA and none of them signed a single PRIMIER one .. No one .. NOTHING

In fact St Louis walked away from Demitra, Dallas attempted to unload Guerin to Florida ..St. Louis tried to get rid of Weight or Tkachuk .. Philly let Zhamnov and Recchi walked away, considering buy out Leclair and Amonte and signed a few depth role players Knuble and Turner Stevenson.. Coloardo let Kariya and Selanne walk and signed a role player or two. Detroit made Shanahan take a big pay cut and let Hull and Schneider walk away ... Toronto signed only their own players in the UFA period .. NYR signed ZERO UFA ...

The signs are all there Pep you have to look to see ..The world is changing in the NHL .. The big market teams had 3 1/2 months to sign the Lindros, Kariya, Kovalev's of the world and none did .. NO competition from anyone, no bidding war ..nothing ... and what happened to all the UFA talent ..??

How do you explain these kinds of moves and then the next minute when a new CBA is signed these teams are going to run out there and snap up all these players when the really are more concerned about cleaning house ....??
It's simple.

There was really no point in the majority of the teams signing anybody "premiere" for several reasons.

Players are shortly going to be cheaper, and drastically so if the cap is $35 million. Secondly they knew full well there would be no season this year, because no hard cap has ever been negotiated. Thirdly, the number of players who will be without contracts (including the "premiere" ones) is about to jump. Those are the reasons, clearly and obviously.

And yet I also wouldn't say there were no moves. A few GMs gave out contracts here and there. Lamoriello, for instance, offered a huge $40 million deal to Niedermeyer, clearly untenable in the world of a $35 million hard cap. Why would he do something like that, do you think? Why did he give big money to Madden? Why did the Wings give big money to Draper? Do you think Holland and Lou are morons? Surely it is a waste to spend significant money on anybody when there will be a low hard cap, right?

The Leafs have timed things so that they have very few players under contract when the new CBA starts. They are positioned much better than many if not all of their big-spending brethren.

Once the new CBA is instituted, then we will see what we see. If I'm wrong I'll be here to admit it.

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Old
12-08-2004, 06:37 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
It's simple.

There was really no point in the majority of the teams signing anybody "premiere" for several reasons.

Players are shortly going to be cheaper, and drastically so if the cap is $35 million. Secondly they knew full well there would be no season this year, because no hard cap has ever been negotiated. Thirdly, the number of players who will be without contracts (including the "premiere" ones) is about to jump. Those are the reasons, clearly and obviously.

And yet I also wouldn't say there were no moves. A few GMs gave out contracts here and there. Lamoriello, for instance, offered a huge $40 million deal to Niedermeyer, clearly untenable in the world of a $35 million hard cap. Why would he do something like that, do you think? Why did he give big money to Madden? Why did the Wings give big money to Draper? Do you think Holland and Lou are morons? Surely it is a waste to spend significant money on anybody when there will be a low hard cap, right?

The Leafs have timed things so that they have very few players under contract when the new CBA starts. They are positioned much better than many if not all of their big-spending brethren.

Once the new CBA is instituted, then we will see what we see. If I'm wrong I'll be here to admit it.
Why did Toronto offer big money to Belfour ?? each of the example you gave are GM signing their own .. The league must have talked to the GM's about that point .. All big market teams signed basically their own ..

Also it seems backwards that when FREE spending OLD CBA is still in place ...Nobody signs these BIG UFA and now if a SALARY CAP happens and teams are restricted that they go out and spend!!!

WHEN YOU CAN SPEND DON'T and WHEN YOU CAN'T SPEND DO ..

... If Eric Lindros was going to take 2 mil from the Leafs post CBA .. why would he not do that in June or July last year ... Kovalev got a 6.5 mil offer from the Habs and said NO THANK YOU .. I think I can get more, knowing that a possible Salary Cap would be a part of the NEW NHL in the future and he would be Lucky to get 3 mil now at best ..

If GM new there would be no season why did the Leafs sign everyone ?? Roberts, Newy. Belfour etc .. and even stranger with a Possible cap coming why did Fergy give multi year guaranteed contacts to RFA (Restricted Free Agents) going nowhere to McCabe, Kaberle, Tucker etc. knowing full well that a cap would bring down salaries??? That doens;t seem so smart in light of you believing that they knew there would be no season ..


Also PEP if there is half a year this season .. 2004-05 .. Do you think the Leafs are going to sign UFA with a full roster and 64 million currently tied up ???

NOT LIKELY right ???

So wouldn't it go to figure then that UFA like Kovalev and Kariya and Lindros could sign with other teams this year 2004-05 .. and if they do ..How can the Leafs sign them unless they are just 1 year deals ?? You intend to replace Roberts and Newy with these players correct ??


Last edited by Mess: 12-08-2004 at 06:48 PM.
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Old
12-09-2004, 12:40 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittles
You left stajan out, and hurried Wellwood in. I'd rather see him in the AHL for another season, and Lindros should be on the 2nd line.
Stajan hasn't proved himself like Wellwood has, Wellwood deserves a shot, if not then ship him back down for another season and bring up Matt

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12-09-2004, 12:52 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benderkyle
Stajan hasn't proved himself like Wellwood has, Wellwood deserves a shot, if not then ship him back down for another season and bring up Matt
That's garbage.

Stajan's proven he has a bright NHL future. The fact that he's struggling at the AHL level doesn't mean anything but he's not used to the slower paced style of hockey.

I like Wellwood, but even comparing them and contemplating the possibility of Wellwood taking over for Stajan in Toronto is absurd.

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12-09-2004, 12:55 AM
  #83
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Don't get me wrong, I love Stajan and i think he deserves to be there. But only one of them can, and I think Wellwood needs a shot.

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12-09-2004, 12:59 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benderkyle
Don't get me wrong, I love Stajan and i think he deserves to be there. But only one of them can, and I think Wellwood needs a shot.
His time will come, but when it does you'll probably be seeing Stajan logging 15:00+ minutes a night.

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12-09-2004, 07:20 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benderkyle
Stajan hasn't proved himself like Wellwood has, Wellwood deserves a shot, if not then ship him back down for another season and bring up Matt
Wellwood has proven he should be there? I think he's got potential and hope some day he makes it but Matty had a pretty solid season for his age. His play in the AHL is picking up. Kyle will be there (hopefully), but I don't think he's ready to step in right now.

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12-09-2004, 09:04 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Wellwood has proven he should be there? I think he's got potential and hope some day he makes it but Matty had a pretty solid season for his age. His play in the AHL is picking up. Kyle will be there (hopefully), but I don't think he's ready to step in right now.
I think Wellwood is the most talented, but that doesn't mean he's more NHL ready.

Stajan should be back when the NHL is back, he didn't do anything to lose his job.

Weewelly should stay the season in the AHL, regardless, but there'll be room for him next year if there is NHL hockey.

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12-09-2004, 09:42 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I think Wellwood is the most talented, but that doesn't mean he's more NHL ready.

Stajan should be back when the NHL is back, he didn't do anything to lose his job.

Weewelly should stay the season in the AHL, regardless, but there'll be room for him next year if there is NHL hockey.
don't disagree he won't be there some day. the poster said Stajan hasn't proven himself like Wellwood and I was just asking what Wellwood has proven?

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12-09-2004, 10:35 AM
  #88
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Good discussion Pep, Messenger and all. What is missing from the equation is the fact that the big markets owners will love the cap because it means HUGE profits. If the owners of those team don't have to answer to the fans for NOT signing free agents, then they can just sit back and rake in the profits.

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12-11-2004, 02:57 PM
  #89
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I wish it would look something like this.

Roberts Sundin Nolan
Kariya Newy Lindros
Poni Stajan domi
Kilger tucker tootoo
(wellwood,belak,parrot)

Leetch Mccabe
Klee Pilar
Moro Cola
(white on the bubble)

My lineup would mean trading Antro,wilm and kaberle for tootoo but I think nashville would do it and we trade berg for a draft pick to reduce more salary.So we can afford kariya and lindros to play the wing.I left mogilny off my list cus folks I think his body is done healing for good, I'll be surprised if he plays again in the nhl never mind on the first line.

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12-11-2004, 03:24 PM
  #90
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no i think mogilny can play
maybe not 1st line however
mind you, you can say that for everyone except sundin couldnt you.

we need a big time scoring winger and another offensive center and we're off !
the blueline and goaltending are fine

psst... g.murray and lindros

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12-11-2004, 03:31 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.l.f.
no i think mogilny can play
maybe not 1st line however
mind you, you can say that for everyone except sundin couldnt you.

we need a big time scoring winger and another offensive center and we're off !
the blueline and goaltending are fine

psst... g.murray and lindros

pssst... hard cap.

There is a lock-out because of teams bidding for players.

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12-11-2004, 03:46 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desperateblue
I wish it would look something like this.

Roberts Sundin Nolan
Kariya Newy Lindros
Poni Stajan domi
Kilger tucker tootoo
(wellwood,belak,parrot)

Leetch Mccabe
Klee Pilar
Moro Cola
(white on the bubble)

My lineup would mean trading Antro,wilm and kaberle for tootoo but I think nashville would do it and we trade berg for a draft pick to reduce more salary.So we can afford kariya and lindros to play the wing.I left mogilny off my list cus folks I think his body is done healing for good, I'll be surprised if he plays again in the nhl never mind on the first line.
So...

Antropov, Wilm, and Kaberle for Tootoo?

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12-11-2004, 03:52 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desperateblue
I wish it would look something like this.

Roberts Sundin Nolan
Kariya Newy Lindros
Poni Stajan domi
Kilger tucker tootoo
(wellwood,belak,parrot)

Leetch Mccabe
Klee Pilar
Moro Cola
(white on the bubble)

My lineup would mean trading Antro,wilm and kaberle for tootoo but I think nashville would do it and we trade berg for a draft pick to reduce more salary.So we can afford kariya and lindros to play the wing.I left mogilny off my list cus folks I think his body is done healing for good, I'll be surprised if he plays again in the nhl never mind on the first line.

Trade Wilm Antropov and Kaberle for Tootoo?


Last edited by BuppY: 12-11-2004 at 05:46 PM.
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Old
12-11-2004, 03:54 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desperateblue
I wish it would look something like this.

Roberts Sundin Nolan
Kariya Newy Lindros
Poni Stajan domi
Kilger tucker tootoo
(wellwood,belak,parrot)

Leetch Mccabe
Klee Pilar
Moro Cola
(white on the bubble)

My lineup would mean trading Antro,wilm and kaberle for tootoo but I think nashville would do it and we trade berg for a draft pick to reduce more salary.So we can afford kariya and lindros to play the wing.I left mogilny off my list cus folks I think his body is done healing for good, I'll be surprised if he plays again in the nhl never mind on the first line.
are you a Leaf fan?

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Old
12-11-2004, 04:01 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
2004-05 Now : Team Salary 64 Million ~= 29 Million over .. 2004-05 (if there is a season)


2005-06 Year : Team Salary 47 Million ~= 12 Million over ...

MINUS (Roberts, Nieuwendyk, Leetch, Mogilny) IN (Kukumberg, Steen, Hedin, Wellwood)


2006-07 Year : Team Salary 35 Million
MINUS (Belfour, Nolan, Domi) IN (Jeremy Williams, John Mitchell, JF Racine)
I do believe that you are going to want to alter your math a bit on the salary that the leafs will take into the season...if there is a season this year. The proposal supplied by the PA the other day offered the league and option of a 24% rollback of existing player contract salarys. If that proposal is accepted then the Leaf payroll will be slashed by 24% before the season starts. In other words the 64 million payroll that the Leafs have will be reduced by 15.36 million making our payroll closer to 48.64 million before signing Poni. I know that this proposal has not been accepted but it is reasonable to assume that if the PA has shown itself willing to cut player salary by 24% then the NHL will insist that the players take a wage cut before they begin playing again.

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12-11-2004, 07:39 PM
  #96
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Yes Im a leaf fan and yes trade all those guys for tootoo.
The impact of tucker and tootoo on the same line would be worth those guys when you consider all the powerplays they would create. Plus it would be fun to watch.
And with all the talk about the coming cap and everything he is not even making antro money so it is a cost cutting move as much as a hockey and PR move.


If the players lose 24% or whatever it is the nhlpa is offering that puts the leafs at what 45 mil or so? We can afford to go over anyway, someone has to give the pens some income.

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12-11-2004, 07:40 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desperateblue
Yes Im a leaf fan and yes trade all those guys for tootoo.
The impact of tucker and tootoo on the same line would be worth those guys when you consider all the powerplays they would create. Plus it would be fun to watch.
And with all the talk about the coming cap and everything he is not even making antro money so it is a cost cutting move as much as a hockey and PR move.


If the players lose 24% or whatever it is the nhlpa is offering that puts the leafs at what 45 mil or so? We can afford to go over anyway, someone has to give the pens some income.
Some advice....... don't bother posting any trade proposals.

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12-11-2004, 08:03 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Some advice....... don't bother posting any trade proposals.


that was pretty horrible trade proposal


Last edited by BuppY: 12-11-2004 at 09:25 PM.
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12-11-2004, 09:12 PM
  #99
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:mad:

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12-11-2004, 09:39 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desperateblue
If the players lose 24% or whatever it is the nhlpa is offering that puts the leafs at what 45 mil or so? We can afford to go over anyway, someone has to give the pens some income.
That was if the league accepted the offer, which it is not going to. Hard cap at 35, with a much smaller rollback. Season won't start until next autumn anyway.

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