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Jordan Staal

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Old
04-18-2012, 10:41 PM
  #301
eXile59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Wow Staal is being overated here. I'm not even a Kessel fan but how in the hell is Toronto adding here.
Staal just put up 5 goals in two playoff games so your timing for saying that could have been better.

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04-18-2012, 10:43 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Staal just put up 5 goals in two playoff games so your timing for saying that could have been better.
Call me crazy but 2 games does not make up for his career averages.

Especially in a game where there were 10 goals scored from his team.

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04-18-2012, 10:45 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Call me crazy but 2 games does not make up for his career averages.

Especially in a game where there were 10 goals scored from his team.
His highest point total ever (50) came this year when he only played 62 games. My biggest guess as to why, more ice time since Crosby missed most of the season.

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04-18-2012, 10:45 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Martin
Staal

Gorges
Bourque
Nashville 2nd
Weber/Palushaj
That's something to think about. Not sure what Palushaj potential is, and that 2nd will be a late one. Still too much youth, but Gorges is good, and would love to have him.

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Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post

Kessel
Gunnarsson
For
Staal
Harrington
lol. Too much from Toronto.

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04-18-2012, 10:49 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Call me crazy but 2 games does not make up for his career averages.

Especially in a game where there were 10 goals scored from his team.
Probably because there's about 300 Staal to Toronto threads from Leafs fans and probably about 1 Staal to Toronto thread from a Pens fan.

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04-18-2012, 10:53 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant123 View Post
His highest point total ever (50) came this year when he only played 62 games. My biggest guess as to why, more ice time since Crosby missed most of the season.
This season 20:03

Last season 21:21

Two seasons ago 19:23

Three seasons ago 19:50

Maybe try guessing again?

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04-18-2012, 11:05 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
This season 20:03

Last season 21:21

Two seasons ago 19:23

Three seasons ago 19:50

Maybe try guessing again?
Hmmm, wouldn't think that haha

He did get a 66.7% increase in PPG though, better quality ice time (don't bother looking up how many it was, 5 this year 3 last haha). Possibly better linemates? Regardless I feel that this year is a better indicator of Staal than his past years, he is still only 23. Many leaf fans still have high hopes for Kulimen (25) and Kadri (21). I would rather put my hope in Staal personally.

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04-18-2012, 11:11 PM
  #308
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I wish the Oilers had what it takes to get Staal, would be a great fit.

We have the necessary pieces, but aren't willing to give them up, and I doubt Pittsburgh will buy the pieces we are willing to sell.

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04-18-2012, 11:13 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
This season 20:03
Last season 21:21
Two seasons ago 19:23
Three seasons ago 19:50
Maybe try guessing again?
This season 20:03 - Sid missed 75% of the season

Last season 21:21 - Crosby/Malkin/Staal played a total of 3 games together (least I think it was 3 - or less). Staal's was getting prime icetime last year.

And as I've already said... there's more to hockey than icetime. Heatley asked for a trade due to not getting prime PP time, and not enough icetime. Staal rarely ever gets much more than 30-40 seconds of PP time (per PP). Players want to be that go to guy, and he'll not truly get that chance while he's playing second fiddle to both Sid and Geno.

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04-18-2012, 11:21 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
This season 20:03 - Sid missed 75% of the season

Last season 21:21 - Crosby/Malkin/Staal played a total of 3 games together (least I think it was 3 - or less). Staal's was getting prime icetime last year.

And as I've already said... there's more to hockey than icetime. Heatley asked for a trade due to not getting prime PP time, and not enough icetime. Staal rarely ever gets much more than 30-40 seconds of PP time (per PP). Players want to be that go to guy, and he'll not truly get that chance while he's playing second fiddle to both Sid and Geno.
Convenient that you ignore that even prior to that season he was still getting 19+ mintues a game...

As for what you've "already said", it's nothing more than baseless speculation on your part that Staal hasn't offered any reason to believe. Pretty terrible time to be making an argument about him not getting the chance to be the "go to guy" when he just scored a hatty in the playoffs. Staal isn't Heatley, what Heatley did or what Heatley asked for doesn't mean a damn thing.

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04-18-2012, 11:36 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I wish the Oilers had what it takes to get Staal, would be a great fit.

We have the necessary pieces, but aren't willing to give them up, and I doubt Pittsburgh will buy the pieces we are willing to sell.
yeah unless pitt was intereted a in paarjvi i doubt we have what it takes

paarjvi +2013 1st + mid level prospect...

value is probably fine but im sure pitt gets better offers for more established players.

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04-18-2012, 11:41 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Call me crazy but 2 games does not make up for his career averages.

Especially in a game where there were 10 goals scored from his team.
His career averages? He has 22 career playoff goals & at 23 years old is coming off his best offensive season. Not to mention a Selke nomination. That's a decent resume for a guy who is 23.

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04-19-2012, 12:03 AM
  #313
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22 goals in 71 games in the playoffs. A gpg of .3

Kessel has a gpg in playoffs of .6

He also is coming off his best offensive season which is 30 points more then Staal. Believe me, I am not saying Staal isnt a good player, I am just saying there is no way that the Leafs should add to Kessel to get Staal.

They are the same age, so you tell me, does a selke nomination make up for 30 points? no

And dont say Staal needs more TOI because Kessel had 20.2 minutes per game and Staal had 20.

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04-19-2012, 12:34 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
22 goals in 71 games in the playoffs. A gpg of .3

Kessel has a gpg in playoffs of .6

He also is coming off his best offensive season which is 30 points more then Staal. Believe me, I am not saying Staal isnt a good player, I am just saying there is no way that the Leafs should add to Kessel to get Staal.

They are the same age, so you tell me, does a selke nomination make up for 30 points? no

And dont say Staal needs more TOI because Kessel had 20.2 minutes per game and Staal had 20.
How many playoff games has Kessel even played though? Staal has already played what seems like a ton. Probably not a fair comparison.

The TOI doesn't really matter. Kessel gets to those minutes playing offensive situations. Staal gets to those minutes playing a lot of defensive situations and a lot less offensive situations.

I do think Kessel is better. I suppose it boils down to need though. Kessel provides scoring and Staal brings the all around game. A team that can score like the Penguins probably needs Staal's all around game more than Kessel's offense. It may be opposite with other teams including Toronto.

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04-19-2012, 12:40 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
22 goals in 71 games in the playoffs. A gpg of .3

Kessel has a gpg in playoffs of .6

He also is coming off his best offensive season which is 30 points more then Staal. Believe me, I am not saying Staal isnt a good player, I am just saying there is no way that the Leafs should add to Kessel to get Staal.

They are the same age, so you tell me, does a selke nomination make up for 30 points? no

And dont say Staal needs more TOI because Kessel had 20.2 minutes per game and Staal had 20.
If Staal played 82 games like Kessel did he would have been on pace for 66. 14 less than Kessel.

In my opinion I wasn't adding to Kessel for Staal, I regard Harrington highly and have him worth more than Gunnarsson and that was there to help even the trade.

Staal and Kessel may have similar ice time but they play in different situations. Kessel is the go-to-guy on the powerplay, never kills penalties. Staal kills penalties and (I think) is usually matched up against the other teams top line. Staal is probably the 4th, maybe 5th go-to-guy on the PP (behind Malkin, Crosby, Neil and maybe Letang?) EDIT: He gets the 9th highest PP TOI/G on the Pens, 7th highest amongst the forwards.

Kessel:
0:05 SH TOI/G
3:20 PP TOI/G

Staal:
2:38 SH TOI/G
1:59 PP TOI/G

In Toronto Staal would be able to increase that PP time to probably 3+ minutes, likely making up those 14 points to tie Kessel. Kessel could have gotten more points had Lupul not gotten injured, I don't think it is hard to believe Staal will get more than 14 more points a year increasing his PP time by 1 minute per game on average. Watching the playoffs this year I now see how many top players kill penalties, Toronto seems to be the only one where they don't (other than Grabbo). Staal would be able to do both.

Staal is tougher, plays in more situations, is a center. If Staal was on another team I wouldn't be surprised if it was Kessel who would have to be added to in order to trade for him.


Last edited by Grant: 04-19-2012 at 12:52 AM.
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Old
04-19-2012, 01:35 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I wish the Oilers had what it takes to get Staal, would be a great fit.

We have the necessary pieces, but aren't willing to give them up, and I doubt Pittsburgh will buy the pieces we are willing to sell.
Hmmmm...you guys have a #1 center, 2 #1 wings. You need a #2 center.

Staal
1st

for

1st Overall

Pens get the wing for Crosby, EDM gets a solid proven 2C

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04-19-2012, 01:52 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Hmmmm...you guys have a #1 center, 2 #1 wings. You need a #2 center.

Staal
1st

for

1st Overall

Pens get the wing for Crosby, EDM gets a solid proven 2C
Way too much from the pens.

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Old
04-19-2012, 02:09 AM
  #318
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Possible forwards:
Kadri
Kulemin
Lupul
MacArthur
Lombardi
Connolly

Possible defencemen:

Gunnarsson
Liles
Schenn

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04-19-2012, 02:53 AM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Hmmmm...you guys have a #1 center, 2 #1 wings. You need a #2 center.

Staal
1st

for

1st Overall

Pens get the wing for Crosby, EDM gets a solid proven 2C
No thanks from Edmonton, Staal is a valuable role player, Yakupov could be a much more impactful player.

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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
Way too much from the pens.
Other way around, I wouldn't trade the 2nd overall pick in this draft for that package let alone the first.

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04-19-2012, 03:16 AM
  #320
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Something around Giordano for Staal?

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04-19-2012, 03:17 AM
  #321
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Jordan Staal is far more than a role player for ****'s sake.

EDM would absolutely consider trading the 1st overall under the premise they have Staal signed longterm. You have little need for another impact winger. #1 D-man and #2C is what the Oilers need.

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04-19-2012, 03:19 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Flameshomer View Post
Something around Giordano for Staal?
Really like Giordano's game, but I'd prefer more of a gritty shutdown presence. Value isn't bad.

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04-19-2012, 03:21 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Really like Giordano's game, but I'd prefer more of a gritty shutdown presence. Value isn't bad.
Understand, just gaging potential. Thanks!

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04-19-2012, 03:29 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Mister Hockey View Post
I wouldn't trade Staal. He's quickly becoming the new Ron Francis.
and people wonder why Jordan Staal is considered the most overrated player in the game

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04-19-2012, 03:31 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Jordan Staal is far more than a role player for ****'s sake.

EDM would absolutely consider trading the 1st overall under the premise they have Staal signed longterm. You have little need for another impact winger. #1 D-man and #2C is what the Oilers need.
I agree that Staal is far more than a role player. He's already a pretty impactfull player for his team and the thing that people that watch him a lot know is that he is still getting better all the time. He hasn't even come close to reaching his potential yet.

However, I still don't think Staal and a 1st gets the #1 overall. It isn't a terrible offer that would get Shero hung up on. I think Edmonton's GM would at least pause for a moment to think about it. In the end that pick is supposed to get you a franchise player though. Staal will be very good in his prime but he'll never be a true franchise player and the difference between Staal and a franchise player isn't a late 1st, imo. I think it's a bit more and the Pens would never pay that anyway.

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