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and people wonder why Jordan Staal is considered the most overrated player in the game
We could argue anybody is overrated. It's really a waste of time.
I find the Francis comparison funny because I watched both so much as a Pens fan. They are almost nothing alike. Both are smart defensive players, but that's about it. Very different bodies and different offensive games. Staal is more of a power-forward. Francis was more of a playmaker.
Staal brings more to EDM now and for the future as he fills a big organizational need. Put him with talent and he's a 70 pt guy with ppg potential in his prime.
Staal was a #2 overall pick in a much better draft than this year's. It's not like the pedigree isn't there still.
Jordan Staal is far more than a role player for ****'s sake.
EDM would absolutely consider trading the 1st overall under the premise they have Staal signed longterm. You have little need for another impact winger. #1 D-man and #2C is what the Oilers need.
If we are getting a 1D and a 2C I'd trade the 1st overall, however there is no way in hell that Letang gets offered on top of Staal. Also you guys had zero need for another center when you took Staal #2 so need doesn't always trump what you want from a high pick. If you guys had take Toews in that draft instead I doubt like hell that you'd be offering him up now would you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9
Staal brings more to EDM now and for the future as he fills a big organizational need. Put him with talent and he's a 70 pt guy with ppg potential in his prime.
Staal was a #2 overall pick in a much better draft than this year's. It's not like the pedigree isn't there still.
And Yakupov is a potential 40-50 goal guy that can create his own offense and create offense for others, that is a more valuable commodity period. And just because Staal's draft may have been better (especially the guys drafted below him) doesn't mean that he'd be worth it. Also to add if you flank Gagner with Hall and Yakupov he'd be a 60-70 point guy as well so even though I'm no Gagner fan that's not why I'd want Staal, I'd want him more for his size and defensive play.
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
We could argue anybody is overrated. It's really a waste of time.
I find the Francis comparison funny because I watched both so much as a Pens fan. They are almost nothing alike. Both are smart defensive players, but that's about it. Very different bodies and different offensive games. Staal is more of a power-forward. Francis was more of a playmaker.
I actually find Daymond Langkow to be a pretty comparable player (albeit Staal is quite a bit bigger and may surpass Langkow's production)
How about a top 4 shutdown dman, top 6 RW and a replacement #3 C?
To Toronto:
Jordan Staal
To Pittsburgh: Luke Schenn, Clarke MacArthur and Tyler Bozak
Assuming Jordan Staal would sign an extension immediately, of course. Salary could be a problem though, Leafs could take back some filler, but not filler with a long contract like Martin or Michalek, and what other filler do the Pens have?
If we are getting a 1D and a 2C I'd trade the 1st overall, however there is no way in hell that Letang gets offered on top of Staal. Also you guys had zero need for another center when you took Staal #2 so need doesn't always trump what you want from a high pick. If you guys had take Toews in that draft instead I doubt like hell that you'd be offering him up now would you?
And Yakupov is a potential 40-50 goal guy that can create his own offense and create offense for others, that is a more valuable commodity period. And just because Staal's draft may have been better (especially the guys drafted below him) doesn't mean that he'd be worth it. Also to add if you flank Gagner with Hall and Yakupov he'd be a 60-70 point guy as well so even though I'm no Gagner fan that's not why I'd want Staal, I'd want him more for his size and defensive play.
EDM wants to take the next step and get into the playoffs. Staal helps you achieve that now and longterm. You can have as many offensive dynamos as you want, you still need to be able to shut teams down and hold a lead late. The oiler games I saw this year, you failed to do so.
I'd say Hall for Staal would have more perspective for both teams. Both have questionable health, age difference isn't that big, Staal woud be an ideal 2nd line center for Edmonton, and for Hall playing with Crosby would be a chance of his life... Sure, Staal must be signed, because 1 year of him isn't enough to get Hall.
I'd say Hall for Staal would have more perspective for both teams. Both have questionable health, age difference isn't that big, Staal woud be an ideal 2nd line center for Edmonton, and for Hall playing with Crosby would be a chance of his life... Sure, Staal must be signed, because 1 year of him isn't enough to get Hall.
Pittsburgh should take that and run. They would not get a better offer.
you still need to be able to shut teams down and hold a lead late. The oiler games I saw this year, you failed to do so.
We (Pens) haven't been able to do that lately either and we have Staal. Not blaming Staal specifically. He can only do his job. He can't play goalie for a struggling Fleury or defenseman for a struggling Orpik or Martin, but still...
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Letang+Staal for Yakupov? That's a joke.
I agree. Letang is a franchise D-Man that will likely win at least one Norris trophy and maybe more. He's worth a franchise forward like Yakupov on his own.
Edmonton could use Staal. The #1 overall is not about need though. It has to be about value. You value the pick as a franchise player and should only trade it for another franchise forward or franchise D, imo. Don't think Staal fits the bill.
and people wonder why Jordan Staal is considered the most overrated player in the game
I didn't know message boards adds to players skill?
"Yo Staal, you're so overrated"
"Why?"
"Message board people compare you to Ron Francis"
"****, i'm overrated big time now...my value hasn't been any lower *scores his hattrick goal*, but now it's climbing ever so slightly"
Imagine the GM's...
"Yo Shero, now that Staal is the most overrated player in the NHL according to message board posters, i offer you peanuts for Staal"
"****, that's probably the best offer i'll ever get...DEAL!"
"Thanks"
EDM wants to take the next step and get into the playoffs. Staal helps you achieve that now and longterm. You can have as many offensive dynamos as you want, you still need to be able to shut teams down and hold a lead late. The oiler games I saw this year, you failed to do so.
Letang+Staal for Yakupov? That's a joke.
As an oiler fan i agree, but your not getting him for just staal. even if signed long term (which would be required).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo
I'd say Hall for Staal would have more perspective for both teams. Both have questionable health, age difference isn't that big, Staal woud be an ideal 2nd line center for Edmonton, and for Hall playing with Crosby would be a chance of his life... Sure, Staal must be signed, because 1 year of him isn't enough to get Hall.
no....why would we do this, 1OA is more available than hall. hall is our future captain, already the emotional leader and driving force of our offence even if RNH/eberle score more.
plus hes the only top-6 forward we have who isnt small.
i really really like staal, i think hes a great 2C, borderline 1C, but your not getting hall/yakupov straight up.
Maybe I'm just not as high on Yakupov as others, but Staal+Letang should get you most any player in this league without a GM thinking twice.
Those guys help you win in the clutch and are among the best at their respective roles.
You're right. I wouldn't do it either.
Habs have the 3rd overall, I'd gladly do in a deal for Staal, but getting the 3rd overall means nothing to the pens, unless they have a deal in place for a player better than Staal, but for some reason the team doesn't want Staal. Pens are contending for a cup now, not in 2 years. Hell, they'll probably be contenders in 2 years from now, too.
That list for the most part was a complete joke. Yes some players up there on it are overrated, but it also had superstars as overrated. It also had players who were in a very long slump (Gomez) as overrated. Nobody was thinking Gomez was overrated, everyone was just thinking he was overpaid.
I wish the Oilers had what it takes to get Staal, would be a great fit.
We have the necessary pieces, but aren't willing to give them up, and I doubt Pittsburgh will buy the pieces we are willing to sell.
would be a good fit...
perhaps something around:
To Pitt
Gagner
MSP
2012 2nd
conditional 2014 pick (if Staal extends, 2014 1st, if he doesn't, 2014 3rd)
don't know that the Pens would be interested in Gagne as their 3rd line centre behind Sid/Geno (or if they'd want a bigger/more defensively apt player), but if they were favourable to that, I think the values pretty good.
Edmonton gets a great compliment to RNH for their top-6 lines, basically upgrading from Gagner at the cost of a solid prospect, 2nd, and if it works out with Staal, another 1st (perhaps lottery protected?).
Pitts gets a relatively affordable talented young centre that still has positive upside, a quality top-9 prospect that should be ready for full NHL role next year, and 2 picks. Pretty good return for a guy 1-year away from UFA (and potentially looking for a role/salary that would make fitting him in with Sid/Geno very difficult).
To Pitt
Gagner
MSP
2012 2nd
conditional 2014 pick (if Staal extends, 2014 1st, if he doesn't, 2014 3rd)
don't know that the Pens would be interested in Gagne as their 3rd line centre behind Sid/Geno (or if they'd want a bigger/more defensively apt player), but if they were favourable to that, I think the values pretty good.
Edmonton gets a great compliment to RNH for their top-6 lines, basically upgrading from Gagner at the cost of a solid prospect, 2nd, and if it works out with Staal, another 1st (perhaps lottery protected?).
Pitts gets a relatively affordable talented young centre that still has positive upside, a quality top-9 prospect that should be ready for full NHL role next year, and 2 picks. Pretty good return for a guy 1-year away from UFA (and potentially looking for a role/salary that would make fitting him in with Sid/Geno very difficult).
Pretty sure the Pens can keep Staal if they really want to. It's just a matter of whether this team needs a shakeup or not. Depends how they go out in the playoffs.
That Edmonton deal offers a lot of futures. Pens aren't looking for that. Staal can be a very good 2nd line C. We know that because he was when Crosby was out for so long. We'd need a player in return that will really impact the top 2 lines or the top 4 D. Gagner won't do that and MPS is too much of a question mark even though I like his upside.
I'd say Hall for Staal would have more perspective for both teams. Both have questionable health, age difference isn't that big, Staal woud be an ideal 2nd line center for Edmonton, and for Hall playing with Crosby would be a chance of his life... Sure, Staal must be signed, because 1 year of him isn't enough to get Hall.
Uhhh, no. Staal for the most part has been an absolute horse.
We (Pens) haven't been able to do that lately either and we have Staal. Not blaming Staal specifically. He can only do his job. He can't play goalie for a struggling Fleury or defenseman for a struggling Orpik or Martin, but still...
