Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
wouldn't it make more sense to just move malkin to wing and play him with crosby and neal? just keep building with that core, staal is such a key asset to the pens when playoffs come around.
I doubt Staal gets traded. Shero said signing him and Crosby to extensions are his top priority this summer. If Staal wants traded, that's different, but Shero isn't going to trade Staal to re-tool.
Staal will only get traded is he asks for it, and in that case, I think Shero would want overpayment.
We should move him to the top 6 though, have him and Malkin rotate center and wing. (At home, someone is at center, then on the road, the other player is a center.)
Then I would like the Pens to sign Dominic Moore to be the 3rd line center if that happens.
I doubt Staal gets traded. Shero said signing him and Crosby to extensions are his top priority this summer. If Staal wants traded, that's different, but Shero isn't going to trade Staal to re-tool.
Staal will only get traded is he asks for it, and in that case, I think Shero would want overpayment.
We should move him to the top 6 though, have him and Malkin rotate center and wing. (At home, someone is at center, then on the road, the other player is a center.)
Then I would like the Pens to sign Dominic Moore to be the 3rd line center if that happens.
He said it, but before the play-offs.
I'm not saying Shero should trade Staal, but IF he wants do some shakeups the only two with some value (other than Sid, Geno, Letang, Neal) are Staal and Orpik.
Staal is replacable IMO, we're not bad on center position so he can be traded if needed. If he stays, I'm more than happy with him.
Martin, Niskanen, Lovejoy won't get you much. That's my point.
Shero is patient guy, but will he be more patient. Last 3 years were disappointment. Will he wait more?
I'd take Paul Martin's contract off Pittsburgh's hands in order to get Staal. I am assuming Paul Martin's value hinders Staal's in a package deal. Do Pittsburgh fans agree?
I'm not saying Shero should trade Staal, but IF he wants do some shakeups the only two with some value (other than Sid, Geno, Letang, Neal) are Staal and Orpik.
Staal is replacable IMO, we're not bad on center position so he can be traded if needed. If he stays, I'm more than happy with him.
Martin, Niskanen, Lovejoy won't get you much. That's my point.
Shero is patient guy, but will he be more patient. Last 3 years were disappointment. Will he wait more?
I would much rather keep Staal around. He is needed on the Pens, if Crosby or Malkin get hurt, he's a good option for the #2 C. And like I said, he can be a top 6 center, just alternate with Malkin per game. Then they each play center 41 times a year.
I'm still not on board with trading Orpik, I mean a lot of Pens fans want him gone, I just can't imagine the D without him right now, it will make more sense to me if he is actually traded.
I'm not too worried about Martin and Lovejoy being traded for anything of value, just as long as they traded.
Niskanen, being an RFA, I think we can get a 3rd round pick for his rights. I think Paul Martin could be had for a 3rd round pick or higher. And Lovejoy can be traded for a bag of pucks.
I think we are seeing a lot of Pitty fans un happy that their "star" 50PT/year defensive third line centerman is not going to yield as much as they expect.
Staal, for all the team who trades for him knows, could be a one year rental.
One year rental = not worth full value.
Except this isn't true. Go look at what Burns fetched while only having 1 year left on his contract. Whomever trades for him only does so if they believe they can resign him, otherwise yes he's worth less to THEM.
I think many on here will be surprised at what Staal will bring back. Either a talented scoring winger, or a high end D. Depending on who, Pens may have to add, but I still think many are undervaluing him.
would love him on the Coyotes!
I would imagine that Pittsburgh would like a 1st coming back, considering that the draft is going to be conducted there.
If the point of trading Staal is that he can be a #1 centre for many teams, they want something back that is either also top line, or top-D pairing. I'm sorry, you can spin all you want, but Kulemin is not a top-line forward and Franson is not projecting as a top pairing D-man. Guys who struggled mightily and were often healthy scratches on the league's 5th worst team won't land you Jordan Staal.
Just my opinion, I know, but I GUARANTEE you that if Pitts makes him available, they get far better offers than that.
That is the stupidest logic I have ever seen someone use. So, just because he's a good #2 C, but can play #1 C on some teams, those teams have to pay top line price for him?
The NHL doesn't work like that. JS is not worth anything more than a good top 6 F + Solid Prospect or 1st + great prospect.
Except this isn't true. Go look at what Burns fetched while only having 1 year left on his contract. Whomever trades for him only does so if they believe they can resign him, otherwise yes he's worth less to THEM.
I think many on here will be surprised at what Staal will bring back. Either a talented scoring winger, or a high end D. Depending on who, Pens may have to add, but I still think many are undervaluing him.
How do you know that Minnesota would not have received more for Burns if he had a 5 year deal? In my opinion they would have received more.
I would much rather keep Staal around. He is needed on the Pens, if Crosby or Malkin get hurt, he's a good option for the #2 C. And like I said, he can be a top 6 center, just alternate with Malkin per game. Then they each play center 41 times a year.
I'm still not on board with trading Orpik, I mean a lot of Pens fans want him gone, I just can't imagine the D without him right now, it will make more sense to me if he is actually traded.
I'm not too worried about Martin and Lovejoy being traded for anything of value, just as long as they traded.
Niskanen, being an RFA, I think we can get a 3rd round pick for his rights. I think Paul Martin could be had for a 3rd round pick or higher. And Lovejoy can be traded for a bag of pucks.
You're right, but with no major trades you have pretty much the same team which failed 3 years in a row.
The only thing you can hope for, is Martin traded for anything and sign Suter IF he becomes FA for 6.5M per.
Free agency won't be big for Dmen, we need to upgrade our D corp, if we want to go further than 1st round. There's no huge options out there IMO.
UNLESS, you go for bigger name and then, you have to pay for that bigger name and Martin nor Niskanen won't get you that.
This summer will be very interesting in Pittsburgh IMO.
Except this isn't true. Go look at what Burns fetched while only having 1 year left on his contract. Whomever trades for him only does so if they believe they can resign him, otherwise yes he's worth less to THEM.
I think many on here will be surprised at what Staal will bring back. Either a talented scoring winger, or a high end D. Depending on who, Pens may have to add, but I still think many are undervaluing him.
so what exactly did Burns fetch... Where is the high end Dman.. or where is the top 6 winger in that deal..
A 40 pt winger + late 1st + a good prospect is all MIN got.
Gagner+ 32nd overall pick + Tobias Reider is the comparable value. PIT is dreaming if they thing they can land Girardi + for 1 yr of Staal.
How do you know that Minnesota would not have received more for Burns if he had a 5 year deal? In my opinion they would have received more.
Yes, you're right, but Minny still got good return for him. That's the point IMO. Staal, if available, can get good return, even he's got 1yr left on his contract.
How do you know that Minnesota would not have received more for Burns if he had a 5 year deal? In my opinion they would have received more.
How much more could they have received? When was the last time a 1st pairing D was traded who had some term left on his deal? Boyle? Pronger?
Dan Boyle and Brad Lukowich to the San Jose Sharks for Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, a 1st round selection in 2009 and a 4th round selection in 2010. That looks pretty close to what Burns received.
Pronger had term when he went to the Ducks, however he was considered one of the top 2-3 D in the league at the time. He got a top 6 winger, bluechip D prospect a 1st and a 2nd. The conditional 1st was on the Ducks reaching the cup finals. And even this wasn't a ton more than Burns considering you're comparing a 1st pairing D with size to one of the best in the league in his prime.
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008.
My point being that just because Staal only has 1 year left, doesn't drastically reduce his value.
How much more could they have received? When was the last time a 1st pairing D was traded who had some term left on his deal? Boyle? Pronger?
Dan Boyle and Brad Lukowich to the San Jose Sharks for Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, a 1st round selection in 2009 and a 4th round selection in 2010. That looks pretty close to what Burns received.
Pronger had term when he went to the Ducks, however he was considered one of the top 2-3 D in the league at the time. He got a top 6 winger, bluechip D prospect a 1st and a 2nd. The conditional 1st was on the Ducks reaching the cup finals. And even this wasn't a ton more than Burns considering you're comparing a 1st pairing D with size to one of the best in the league in his prime.
Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008.
My point being that just because Staal only has 1 year left, doesn't drastically reduce his value.
It does. If Staal was signed longer term and was on the block, teams would all line up and give up their top players for him.
Lupul was coming off a 28G \50+pt season (more then both Getzlaff and Perry) when he was traded for Pronger
SJ did not give up Couture, Thornton, Heatley or Marleau for Burns
PIT will get offers like Stewart + prospect + 1st from STL if Staal was on the block right now..
If he was signed longer term ... it would be much higher.
I'd probably take Kulemin and Schenn for Staal and something else if Staal really wants out. I think Staal would love to play back home in Ontario for the Leafs.
Kulemin would either be a good winger for Crosby or he could be reunited with Malkin after all these years. That would allow Neal to move up to Crosby's line. Schenn provides the Pens with a young defensive D-Man, which has become a need with Orpik's age and declining play.
Toronto would finally get that big two way center that they need and maybe something else thrown in the deal.
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Originally Posted by SkullSplitter
Yeah, I'd probably do that if Staal wanted out.
What else would PIT be willing to throw in?
What value does Tangradi hold to them?
His stats don't look all that impressive, but I know the Leafs have been rumoured to be interested in him before.
Either way, I think this type of deal has potential to work out well for both teams.
It would be tough to give up on Kulie and Schenn, especially after down years for both.
But Stall is exactly the type of big C the leafs have been looking for since Mats left town, plus he is only 23 (ie. still improving).
There is a very good chance Kulie would have a MONSTER bounceback year riding shotgun with Malkin again.
Schenn would learn alot from a guy like Orpik, and would probably benefit from being out of the spotlight on a team with stars like Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Letang, Neal, etc...
Staal not signed and not elite center, he's a #2 center or poor man's #1 center. Keep the pick, Timmins hit a homerun get true elite center
But he's Staal man.
I offered the 3rd overall now i'll add.
What if we throw in Beaulieu and Tinordi with the 3rd overall. Is that enought to get that superstar center [ Staal ] we need.
SJ did not give up Couture, Thornton, Heatley or Marleau for Burns
PIT will get offers like Stewart + prospect + 1st from STL if Staal was on the block right now..
If he was signed longer term ... it would be much higher.
Seto is a top 6 winger (on a great contract). Coyle is a bluechip prospect. The 1st is offset by the 2nd heading back. Figure that 1st is 22-30 range, while the 2nd is what 37th? That's only dropping back 15 or so picks. Unless the Wild got hot and went all the way, SJ could bank on that pick only dropping 10-20 spots.
Look at what Richards fetched. Had 4 yrs left on his deal, and was 26, coming off a 70 pt season, and was considered a true #1 center.
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Tampa Bay Lightning traded Brad Richards and Johan Holmqvist to the Dallas Stars for Mike Smith, Jeff Halpern, Jussi Jokinen and a 4th round selection in 2000
If Staal had 4 yrs left at 4.5m, how much more would he get? It still wouldn't be much more than what you just offered. The prospect might be a blue chip instead of a decent one, but that's still about all he'd get either way.
Top 6 winger, prospect, 1st.
Again, his value might be down a tad due to his contract, but history shows that it's not down nearly as much as HF posters seem to think it is.
Seto is a top 6 winger (on a great contract). Coyle is a bluechip prospect. The 1st is offset by the 2nd heading back. Figure that 1st is 22-30 range, while the 2nd is what 37th? That's only dropping back 15 or so picks. Unless the Wild got hot and went all the way, SJ could bank on that pick only dropping 10-20 spots.
Look at what Richards fetched. Had 4 yrs left on his deal, and was 26, coming off a 70 pt season, and was considered a true #1 center.
If Staal had 4 yrs left at 4.5m, how much more would he get? It still wouldn't be much more than what you just offered. The prospect might be a blue chip instead of a decent one, but that's still about all he'd get either way.
Top 6 winger, prospect, 1st.
Again, his value might be down a tad due to his contract, but history shows that it's not down nearly as much as HF posters seem to think it is.
Richards fetched a top prospect.. arguably the best prospect not playing in NHL (B.Schenn) + Simmonds + 2nd
You cant just lump all top 6 wingers together.. Simmonds may not be a top 6 winger but his stats were comparable to Setoguchi at the time of trade and he brings a lot more to the table. This season Simmonds has even better stats with Devon staying around the 40 point mark.
if Staal was signed for the next 4 seasons he would fetch a much higher quality in return.
so what exactly did Burns fetch... Where is the high end Dman.. or where is the top 6 winger in that deal..
A 40 pt winger + late 1st + a good prospect is all MIN got.
Gagner+ 32nd overall pick + Tobias Reider is the comparable value. PIT is dreaming if they thing they can land Girardi + for 1 yr of Staal.
Setoguchi > Gagner
Zack Phillips (28th overall) > 32nd in 2011
Coyle > Reider.
Even if Staal = Burns, your offer is low on all accounts.
You're right, but with no major trades you have pretty much the same team which failed 3 years in a row.
The only thing you can hope for, is Martin traded for anything and sign Suter IF he becomes FA for 6.5M per.
Free agency won't be big for Dmen, we need to upgrade our D corp, if we want to go further than 1st round. There's no huge options out there IMO.
UNLESS, you go for bigger name and then, you have to pay for that bigger name and Martin nor Niskanen won't get you that.
This summer will be very interesting in Pittsburgh IMO.
The Pens are kinda hamstrung with the cap and the UFA defenseman market being thin this year. It's Suter and then a bunch of guys who might be minimal upgrades to Martin out there. If you want to bring in a top pairing guy, it will probably have to be through trade.
The Pens are kinda hamstrung with the cap and the UFA defenseman market being thin this year. It's Suter and then a bunch of guys who might be minimal upgrades to Martin out there. If you want to bring in a top pairing guy, it will probably have to be through trade.
Exactly. Which is why making Staal available makes sense. Especially in a package with one of Orpik/Michalek. And then hope a team is willing to take on 5 mil for what is becoming a reclamation project in Martin.
