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1983-84 Penguins: Did they deliberately lose games to get Mario?

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Old
12-07-2004, 02:06 PM
  #26
Mothra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
They were playing terrible, what's your point? They didn't have an ECHL goalie on the ice while a solid goaltending staff sat idly by.
Kolzig played 2 of the last 3....6 of the last 10....63 games for the season. Max was in the AHL helping his team, and future NHL teammates make the playoffs....Yeats played pretty well....what is YOUR point? people make it sound like the Caps were out of the lottery and then started an ECHL goal to drop them to the bottom of the NHL...and that just isnt the case....as I have said...and proven...the Capitals finished pretty much where they were all season long

And...regarding this "They (Pens) didn't have an ECHL goalie on the ice"...please tell us about Andy Chiodo

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00055340

Looks like he played 8 games with the big club last season...and also 2 in the ECHL....and the ECHL has been his home this season as well...so, you were saying?

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12-07-2004, 02:13 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili
Making up 16 points in the last 20 games of the season, especially at the bottom of the standings? That is miles to me.

The point was, that lottery or not, teams still are encouraged to finish with the worst possible record once they are eliminated from the playoffs. It would be interesting to see, how the upcoming Crosby draft would influence teams roster decisions down the stretch.
It still doesnt discount the fact the Caps finished pretty much where they were all season....they were even with the Pens in Jan....Pens went on a historic tailspin, worthy of note is they started an ECHL goalie in 9 of 10 games during that period...whose #'s werent as good as Yeats, the move you have singled out...but that must be ok I guess.....

Yes, the Pens were very hot at the end....and the Caps sucked, even more after trading Bondra/Nylander/Gonchar/Grier......still the Pens finished last, It doesnt matter how much ground they made up

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12-07-2004, 02:55 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Kolzig played 2 of the last 3....6 of the last 10....63 games for the season. Max was in the AHL helping his team, and future NHL teammates make the playoffs....Yeats played pretty well....what is YOUR point? people make it sound like the Caps were out of the lottery and then started an ECHL goal to drop them to the bottom of the NHL...and that just isnt the case....as I have said...and proven...the Capitals finished pretty much where they were all season long

And...regarding this "They (Pens) didn't have an ECHL goalie on the ice"...please tell us about Andy Chiodo

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00055340

Looks like he played 8 games with the big club last season...and also 2 in the ECHL....and the ECHL has been his home this season as well...so, you were saying?
Chiodo is higher on the Pens depth chart than Yeats is on the Caps, there's your explanation.

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12-07-2004, 02:58 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
It still doesnt discount the fact the Caps finished pretty much where they were all season....they were even with the Pens in Jan....Pens went on a historic tailspin, worthy of note is they started an ECHL goalie in 9 of 10 games during that period...whose #'s werent as good as Yeats, the move you have singled out...but that must be ok I guess.....

Yes, the Pens were very hot at the end....and the Caps sucked, even more after trading Bondra/Nylander/Gonchar/Grier......still the Pens finished last, It doesnt matter how much ground they made up
Playing Chiodo was not one of these suspect management decisions as you suggest. Aubin and Caron were struggling, and Fleury had been banished to the minors b/c that was what was best for him. Makes perfect sense that Chiodo would get play time, the same cannot be said for Yeats.

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12-07-2004, 03:29 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
Playing Chiodo was not one of these suspect management decisions as you suggest. Aubin and Caron were struggling, and Fleury had been banished to the minors b/c that was what was best for him. Makes perfect sense that Chiodo would get play time, the same cannot be said for Yeats.
Kolzig had played his full season
Stana coming off injury was back in the AHL
Max in AHL for similar reason you give for MAF
Charpentier, coming off possible career ending issues sucked (3.41, 0-6-0, .875) and thats good enough excuse not to play him if you can use "Aubin and Caron were struggling"

so...the Caps options....start Kolzig the 10 final games on the season instead of just 6

Start Max even though the best thing for him and the rest of his future teammates was to have him play in the AHL and make a playoff run

Or play Yeats...who played well (3.04, 1-3-0, .908)

what would you have done?

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12-07-2004, 03:32 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
Playing Chiodo was not one of these suspect management decisions as you suggest.
I am not suggesting anything like that....I am just pointing out how Pit did have an ECHL goalie playing...when you specifically said they did not...all while blasting the Caps for having playing Yeats (an ECHL goalie)

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12-07-2004, 03:37 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
I am not suggesting anything like that....I am just pointing out how Pit did have an ECHL goalie playing...when you specifically said they did not...all while blasting the Caps for having playing Yeats (an ECHL goalie)
Chiodo has played 4 games in the ECHL, and 53 in the AHL. And, he is higher on the Pens Depth chart than Yeats is on the Caps.

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12-07-2004, 03:46 PM
  #33
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There is a difference between Yeats and Chiodo

Off-Topic:Great screenname, Lionel Htz is without a doubt my favorite Simpsons character of all time
"He's kinda had it in for me every since I accidentally ran over his dog...just replace "accidentally" with "repeatedly" and "dog" with "son""

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12-09-2004, 03:53 AM
  #34
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You also have to consider, that not only was Washington playing badly in the last part of the season, the Pens went on a tear and were playing great hockey once they had already been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

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Old
12-09-2004, 04:26 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
I am not suggesting anything like that....I am just pointing out how Pit did have an ECHL goalie playing...when you specifically said they did not...all while blasting the Caps for having playing Yeats (an ECHL goalie)
Its not the same thing and you know it. Well I'll rephrase, you should know it.

Andy Chiodo was the no.1 goalie on an AHL playoff team at the time of his call up. A legitimate NHL prospect . He played two games in the ECHL in October/November of the season to give him some playing time after Wilkes-Barre coach Michel Therrien committed to using JS Aubin over the course of a weekend (he was sent to the ECHL last week for the exact same reason, only Therrien went with Fleury).

Yeats was....I don't know where the hell Yeats was when he was brought into the Capitals team.

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Old
12-09-2004, 07:14 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
You have ton understand, that team was bad, and was I say bad I mean Ashlee Simpson bad.

You mean a bunch of 14 year old girls kept coming to watch the play every night?



Another mediocre attempt humor.

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Old
12-09-2004, 07:25 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
I remember reading once that the New Jersey Devils had accused Pittsburgh of throwing their last few games of the 1983-84 season to acquire the 1984 first round draft choice- Mario Lemieux. Both team were in a dead heat to finish last, with pittsburgh finishing with 38 points, and the Devils with 41. Do you think this is possible?

Who cares? We screwd the Devils and landed the top pick..hahah suckers.

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12-09-2004, 07:27 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobert
You also have to consider, that not only was Washington playing badly in the last part of the season, the Pens went on a tear and were playing great hockey once they had already been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

They started to play well because they finally got used to the system Edzo brought in and the guys were all healthy and starting to gel (without Mario mind you) and started to win games without Fleury in net. Guys like Malone, Kraft, and Morozov started to contribute big time and some younger guys stepped up their play also, Orpik and Jackman started to emerge.

That was just a timing thing, if they had Edzo a year earlier the Pens would have done alot better than they did last season. Oh well.

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Old
12-09-2004, 09:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clefty
Its not the same thing and you know it. Well I'll rephrase, you should know it.

Andy Chiodo was the no.1 goalie on an AHL playoff team at the time of his call up. A legitimate NHL prospect . He played two games in the ECHL in October/November of the season to give him some playing time after Wilkes-Barre coach Michel Therrien committed to using JS Aubin over the course of a weekend (he was sent to the ECHL last week for the exact same reason, only Therrien went with Fleury).

Yeats was....I don't know where the hell Yeats was when he was brought into the Capitals team.
There reason I brought up Chiodo was because a poster specifically said Pit did not start an ECHL goalie...when in fact they did start a guy that played in the ECHL last season, and even played in the ECHL this season....and if you look at the numbers Yeats did better than Chiodo in the NHL (not that it matters...but Yeats didnt look bad)....this has nothing to do with the point though....and none of you have answered my questions...so I will ask them again

What should Washington have done? The options were....

Play Kolzig every game downthe stretch? he did play 6 of the last 10 and 2 of the last 3 as it was

Ignore what was best for Ouellet? IMO the best thing for him was what they did, have him in net for Portland as they fought for a playoff spot. They managed to make the playoffs then advance a round. Do you feel it would have been better if they had him play in the NHL with a bunch of guys who would not be with the team in following years or play in the AHL playoffs with his future teammates?

Same goes for Stana...but add he was coming off injury

Charpentier was terrible (much worse than Yeats) and he too was coming off injury...one that many said was career ending

so the only real option was to play Kolzig every game...as it was he was 10th in minutes played by a goalie...thats a lot of hockey..would that have made you guys happy?

and here is what I dont get more than anything....people are making it seem like the Caps dropped from out of the lottery to in the lottery (and almost seems like they feel they finished last and not 3rd from last) because they started Yeats in 4 games.....when in fact they finished pretty much where they had been all season...I have shown that but people seem to ignore it....on Jan 7th they were tied with Pit for last in terms of points. The Caps had 1 more win but Pit had 2 games in hand....and at that time the Caps still had Jagr/Lang/Gonchar/Grier

I just dont get you guys...unless you are bored and just want to argue (that I can relate to)

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Old
12-09-2004, 02:22 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
You mean a bunch of 14 year old girls kept coming to watch the play every night?



Another mediocre attempt humor.
Yikes, I'm really smarting from that quip.

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Old
12-09-2004, 02:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
There reason I brought up Chiodo was because a poster specifically said Pit did not start an ECHL goalie...when in fact they did start a guy that played in the ECHL last season, and even played in the ECHL this season....and if you look at the numbers Yeats did better than Chiodo in the NHL (not that it matters...but Yeats didnt look bad)....this has nothing to do with the point though....and none of you have answered my questions...so I will ask them again
I specifically said that, to which you replied Chiodo, to which I replied he played 4 games in the ECHL.

You are wrong, get over it.


And quit making stuff up.


Last edited by Lionel Hutz: 12-09-2004 at 02:30 PM.
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Old
12-09-2004, 02:36 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
I specifically said that, to which you replied Chiodo, to which I replied he played 4 games in the ECHL.

You are wrong, get over it.


And quit making stuff up.
How am I wrong?

last season the Pens started a goalie that played in the ECHL last season....this very same goalie played in the ECHL this season as well......

what is untrue about that?

still stinging over me calling you on the carpet a few weeks ago I see...talk about needing to get over it

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Old
12-09-2004, 02:45 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
How am I wrong?

last season the Pens started a goalie that played in the ECHL last season....this very same goalie played in the ECHL this season as well......

what is untrue about that?

still stinging over me calling you on the carpet a few weeks ago I see...talk about needing to get over it
Two stints in the ECHL, total 4 games, and you call him an ECHL goaltender and compare him to Yeats?

Nothin to see here people, move along.

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Old
12-09-2004, 03:34 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
Two stints in the ECHL, total 4 games, and you call him an ECHL goaltender and compare him to Yeats?

Nothin to see here people, move along.
Dont think I ever really compared him to Yeats...although I did say Yeats had better stats in the NHL.....I dont give a hoot about either of these guys....doubt either are ever even regular backups in the NHL.....so im not sure what you are so bent over....other than the obvious things from a few weeks ago that clearly still hurts you

I see you just refuse to answer the questions I asked you a couple times.....

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12-09-2004, 03:58 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Dont think I ever really compared him to Yeats...although I did say Yeats had better stats in the NHL.....I dont give a hoot about either of these guys....doubt either are ever even regular backups in the NHL.....so im not sure what you are so bent over....other than the obvious things from a few weeks ago that clearly still hurts you

I see you just refuse to answer the questions I asked you a couple times.....
Well, you asked me this question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
And...regarding this "They (Pens) didn't have an ECHL goalie on the ice"...please tell us about Andy Chiodo

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00055340.....
And I've answered it.

I'll take a look back and see what you asked.

There are no obvious things from a couple of weeks a go, unless you mean you making an ass of yourself in the prospects thread.

I have far too much going on in my life to get "hurt" over what some guy says to me on a message board, sorry to burst your bubble, but this just does not have that kind of impact on me.

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12-09-2004, 04:42 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
I see you just refuse to answer the questions I asked you a couple times.....
The only question I see that you asked of me was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Kolzig had played his full season
Stana coming off injury was back in the AHL
Max in AHL for similar reason you give for MAF
Charpentier, coming off possible career ending issues sucked (3.41, 0-6-0, .875) and thats good enough excuse not to play him if you can use "Aubin and Caron were struggling"

so...the Caps options....start Kolzig the 10 final games on the season instead of just 6

Start Max even though the best thing for him and the rest of his future teammates was to have him play in the AHL and make a playoff run

Or play Yeats...who played well (3.04, 1-3-0, .908)

what would you have done?
Yeats is not even on your depth chart- he's like what, the Caps 5th 6th string prospet goaltender? Isn't he like the last possible guy you would ever give minutes to? because that's the way it seems.

Playing Yeats does not equal playing Chiodo.

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12-09-2004, 04:42 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jets4Life
I remember reading once that the New Jersey Devils had accused Pittsburgh of throwing their last few games of the 1983-84 season to acquire the 1984 first round draft choice- Mario Lemieux. Both team were in a dead heat to finish last, with pittsburgh finishing with 38 points, and the Devils with 41. Do you think this is possible?
Honestly, no.

In today's ultra-cynical society, such a thought is likely much more believable to more people. However, that is the same mentality that assumes that all of life is a conspiracy, everything is preordained and that professional sports are fixed.

Until proven otherwise, there is no proof whatseover that the NHL has ever fixed games. Thankfully. Of course, that does not stop some negative naybobs from suggesting otherwise. (Note: That comment is not directed at you, it's understood that you are merely recalling the history of the event.) Good luck getting a team of professionals to tank competition. That is the kind of thinking that reeks of one who has never competed in sports and/or suffers from a severe case of paranoia.

When NJD made that declaration, it was received for the most part as sour grapes and hyperbole, which it was. (Might note that Lou L. was not with the franchise at that point in time; he would NEVER stoop so low as to make that accusation, IMO, for it tarnishes the league.)

Trust me, anyone who followed hockey, circa the mid-80s knows: The Pens did not have to conspire to lose games. They were highly adept at it, as is.

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12-09-2004, 04:44 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Trust me, anyone who followed hockey, circa the mid-80s knows: The Pens did not have to conspire to lose games. They were highly adept at it, as is.
Honestly, they were well beyond what we today define as "bad".

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12-09-2004, 06:49 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
They were playing terrible, what's your point? They didn't have an ECHL goalie on the ice while a solid goaltending staff sat idly by.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothra
Kolzig played 2 of the last 3....6 of the last 10....63 games for the season. Max was in the AHL helping his team, and future NHL teammates make the playoffs....Yeats played pretty well....what is YOUR point? people make it sound like the Caps were out of the lottery and then started an ECHL goal to drop them to the bottom of the NHL...and that just isnt the case....as I have said...and proven...the Capitals finished pretty much where they were all season long

And...regarding this "They (Pens) didn't have an ECHL goalie on the ice"...please tell us about Andy Chiodo

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...3?pid=00055340

Looks like he played 8 games with the big club last season...and also 2 in the ECHL....and the ECHL has been his home this season as well...so, you were saying?
haha Game. Set. Match.

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Old
12-09-2004, 06:57 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by SwOOsh
haha Game. Set. Match.
Not so fast Swoosh. It was a conditioning stint for the most part. Chioda is MAF's backup. Plain and simple. Management said they wanted him to get some game time in so that he could be ready for MAF to take a break after a stretch of games. He went down for a wekend stint, while it was no public secret that he was to be recalled after the weekend.

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