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Hockey in Britain part 2

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05-23-2012, 07:19 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I never would've guessed that there'd be three Brits playing in Kazakhstan

I know some people don't care about Brits being in the top British league but there's an obvious issue when the top Brits are leaving for a not so amazing league.
From what I've heard, Ben O'Connor was getting massive amounts of money playing in Kazakhstan. Top Brits are paid fairly well in the EIHL because they are of such high demand, so there must be a hell of a lot of money in the Kazakh league. They're probably more likely to be noticed and progress to a higher level than they would be playing in the EIHL, so that could be another factor.

I think it's good they are going to such foreign countries though, it used to be that British guys were afraid to go to the continent because of language and culture differences. As a country we have the attitude of "why should we learn another language, when we go on holiday everyone there speaks English anyway. We can get through 2 weeks in Spain only knowing how to say please, thank you, and to ask for a beer"

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05-23-2012, 09:31 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
From what I've heard, Ben O'Connor was getting massive amounts of money playing in Kazakhstan. Top Brits are paid fairly well in the EIHL because they are of such high demand, so there must be a hell of a lot of money in the Kazakh league. They're probably more likely to be noticed and progress to a higher level than they would be playing in the EIHL, so that could be another factor.

I think it's good they are going to such foreign countries though, it used to be that British guys were afraid to go to the continent because of language and culture differences. As a country we have the attitude of "why should we learn another language, when we go on holiday everyone there speaks English anyway. We can get through 2 weeks in Spain only knowing how to say please, thank you, and to ask for a beer"
I disagree completely. Even top Kazakh players either go to Russia or the lucky ones play with Kazakh based teams in Russia based leagues. Example: Kazzinc-Torpedo - Nik Antropov.

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05-24-2012, 03:55 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I disagree completely. Even top Kazakh players either go to Russia or the lucky ones play with Kazakh based teams in Russia based leagues. Example: Kazzinc-Torpedo - Nik Antropov.
Looks like you've misread what I wrote or I didn't write it clearly enough. More likely to be noticed in Kazakh league than EIHL was what I meant.

We saw it this year with Ben O'Connors team keeping him around to play VHL which I would think is much better than the EIHL

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05-24-2012, 08:29 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Looks like you've misread what I wrote or I didn't write it clearly enough. More likely to be noticed in Kazakh league than EIHL was what I meant.

We saw it this year with Ben O'Connors team keeping him around to play VHL which I would think is much better than the EIHL
Nope I didn't misread it and it was pretty clear. I disagree that you'd get noticed in the Kazakh league more than you could in the EIHL. The Kazakh league is a few leagues bellow the KHL. Seems like the majority of the players are either washed up 4th line KHLers or they spent their entire time in Russia2/Russia3. The only players this league could be a stepping stone for is teenagers who want some experience playing with older competition.

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05-24-2012, 10:09 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
Nope I didn't misread it and it was pretty clear. I disagree that you'd get noticed in the Kazakh league more than you could in the EIHL. The Kazakh league is a few leagues bellow the KHL. Seems like the majority of the players are either washed up 4th line KHLers or they spent their entire time in Russia2/Russia3. The only players this league could be a stepping stone for is teenagers who want some experience playing with older competition.
Ok I misread you then

I doubt Ben O'Connor gets to play VHL level or equivalent without going to Kazakhstan. VHL is much better than EIHL and arguably the best 2nd tier league in Europe (you could make a case for Allsvenskan or Mestis) I think the British guys who go to Kazakh league have a good chance of getting picked up by a VHL team in the future, a better chance of playing in a league of that level than if they had stayed in the EIHL. Getting to play in VHL is a great achievement for a British player, only Dave Phillips and David Longstaff have played a higher level (AHL and SEL, could make a case for Rob Dowd in Allsvenskan)

I agree that you're less likely to get noticed IN GENERAL playing in Kazakhstan but Russian VHL teams are more likely to notice a guy playing in Kazakhstan than the EIHL, and like I said Russian VHL is probably the best 2nd tier league in Europe, British players ain't making the KHL, SEL, DEL, FEL, Extraliga or NLA any time soon.


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05-24-2012, 11:37 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
Ok I misread you then

I doubt Ben O'Connor gets to play VHL level or equivalent without going to Kazakhstan. VHL is much better than EIHL and arguably the best 2nd tier league in Europe (you could make a case for Allsvenskan or Mestis) I think the British guys who go to Kazakh league have a good chance of getting picked up by a VHL team in the future, a better chance of playing in a league of that level than if they had stayed in the EIHL. Getting to play in VHL is a great achievement for a British player, only Dave Phillips and David Longstaff have played a higher level (AHL and SEL, could make a case for Rob Dowd in Allsvenskan)

I agree that you're less likely to get noticed IN GENERAL playing in Kazakhstan but Russian VHL teams are more likely to notice a guy playing in Kazakhstan than the EIHL, and like I said Russian VHL is probably the best 2nd tier league in Europe, British players ain't making the KHL, SEL, DEL, FEL, Extraliga or NLA any time soon.
I didn't read to much of this yet because I first want to ask, when did Ben O'Connor play in the VHL because I have no idea where this is coming from.

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05-24-2012, 11:43 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I didn't read to much of this yet because I first want to ask, when did Ben O'Connor play in the VHL because I have no idea where this is coming from.
His team was supposed to be playing in the VHL in the upcoming season, I don't know if they still are because Elite Prospects still lists them as Kazakhstan. I asked in the Eastern Europe section and was told they were trying to gain entry to the VHL, and the guy referred me to the KHL/VHL expansion thread in the KHL section, I didn't read it though because I took his word for it.

Also when the team re-signed him, it said in the PR: "contracts have been extended with the following players: Simon Kokuev, Dmitry Gromov, Maxim Orlov, Ilgiz Nureyev, Ben O'Connor, Andrew Batrutdinov, Alexander Stankovsky Maxim Gryaznov. According to the coaching staff, these players will match the level of VHL, which is supposed to address the team." http://hc-saryarka.kz/index.php?mod=index&newsid=1362 the website is all in Russian or whatever it is but that's what google chrome translated it to.

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05-24-2012, 01:11 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
His team was supposed to be playing in the VHL in the upcoming season, I don't know if they still are because Elite Prospects still lists them as Kazakhstan. I asked in the Eastern Europe section and was told they were trying to gain entry to the VHL, and the guy referred me to the KHL/VHL expansion thread in the KHL section, I didn't read it though because I took his word for it.

Also when the team re-signed him, it said in the PR: "contracts have been extended with the following players: Simon Kokuev, Dmitry Gromov, Maxim Orlov, Ilgiz Nureyev, Ben O'Connor, Andrew Batrutdinov, Alexander Stankovsky Maxim Gryaznov. According to the coaching staff, these players will match the level of VHL, which is supposed to address the team." http://hc-saryarka.kz/index.php?mod=index&newsid=1362 the website is all in Russian or whatever it is but that's what google chrome translated it to.
So if I understand correctly, the Kazahk team he's playing for is getting promoted to the VHL? So he hasn't played in the league yet and usually when a team goes from a lower league to a higher league, it takes a few years for the team to fill with players at that level. Not saying Ben O'Connor couldn't make it in the VHL, I haven't seen him since he was playing with Mississauga, but odds are he wasn't on the radar of any VHL teams, odds are he just happened to be on the team getting promoted, which I still can't see anywhere.
If they are indeed promoted, maybe he could step up and play well enough that he could carve out a career in the VHL and get some looks in the KHL but it's unbelievably unlikely.

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05-24-2012, 01:34 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
So if I understand correctly, the Kazahk team he's playing for is getting promoted to the VHL? So he hasn't played in the league yet and usually when a team goes from a lower league to a higher league, it takes a few years for the team to fill with players at that level. Not saying Ben O'Connor couldn't make it in the VHL, I haven't seen him since he was playing with Mississauga, but odds are he wasn't on the radar of any VHL teams, odds are he just happened to be on the team getting promoted, which I still can't see anywhere.
If they are indeed promoted, maybe he could step up and play well enough that he could carve out a career in the VHL and get some looks in the KHL but it's unbelievably unlikely.
There was definitely talk about them joining, but I don't know whether they will be or not. It said in that press release the players they re-signed would "match the level of VHL" so they obviously thought he was good enough and that the club had intention of applying.

But the point is, if they are in fact going to the VHL, O'Connor doesn't get that opportunity if he stays in the EIHL last year. I would be happy for him to play in VHL because that's still a very good level for a British player.

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05-24-2012, 04:01 PM
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GB not hosting Olympic pre-qualifiers, will be held in Japan.

http://www.icehockeyuk.co.uk/japan-t...gb-men-p177598

IHUK once again show their incompetence, none of the suitable arenas were available with other events going on. They've known the dates of the tournament for a long time, and that it was likely we would get the #21 seed to have first choice to host. What a joke.

The sad part is I'm not surprised at all.

Everyone is olympic crazy right now, I'm sure sponsors would be racing towards it and we might have even got TV coverage

And I must admit a THF post made me laugh "Jet lag? This is team GB. They'll go by bus"


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05-24-2012, 04:04 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
There was definitely talk about them joining, but I don't know whether they will be or not. It said in that press release the players they re-signed would "match the level of VHL" so they obviously thought he was good enough and that the club had intention of applying.

But the point is, if they are in fact going to the VHL, O'Connor doesn't get that opportunity if he stays in the EIHL last year. I would be happy for him to play in VHL because that's still a very good level for a British player.
I gotta say that what your saying makes no sense to me.
A)Of course the team that signed a player is going to say the player can match the level of the league they might be playing in. What do you think they'd say? "We signed Ben O'Connor because we think he's not quite VHL quality but he'll do!" That'd be great for the teams Public Relations!

B)I still don't see Ben O'Connor playing in the VHL as that big of an accomplishment. He's getting into the league by playing for a team in a lower league that is getting promoted and will probably be bad while they get started in a new league. It's not going to be any good for him if he can't play at that level.

C)It seems like your saying that Ben O'Connor or anyone else couldn't go from the EIHL to the VHL. Seems like your saying that if you play in the EIHL, you can't go much further up without going to another countries lower leagues first. David Phillips went from the EIHL to the AHL... AHL is definitely better than the VHL.

I just don't get what your trying to say about the EIHL or British Pro's in general.

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05-24-2012, 04:17 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I gotta say that what your saying makes no sense to me.
A)Of course the team that signed a player is going to say the player can match the level of the league they might be playing in. What do you think they'd say? "We signed Ben O'Connor because we think he's not quite VHL quality but he'll do!" That'd be great for the teams Public Relations!

B)I still don't see Ben O'Connor playing in the VHL as that big of an accomplishment. He's getting into the league by playing for a team in a lower league that is getting promoted and will probably be bad while they get started in a new league. It's not going to be any good for him if he can't play at that level.

C)It seems like your saying that Ben O'Connor or anyone else couldn't go from the EIHL to the VHL. Seems like your saying that if you play in the EIHL, you can't go much further up without going to another countries lower leagues first. David Phillips went from the EIHL to the AHL... AHL is definitely better than the VHL.

I just don't get what your trying to say about the EIHL or British Pro's in general.
A) That's not the point. If he wasn't good enough for the VHL, they wouldn't have re-signed him if their intention was to ice a team in the VHL this year?

B) It would be an accomplishment, I already said only Phillips and Longstaff have played at a higher level. It doesn't matter if they would be bad, I'd rather he be on a bad team in the VHL than play in the EIHL.

C) Not saying that at all, there are of course exceptions like Phillips. I'm just saying I think its probably easier for a player to go to Kazakhstan then get noticed by a Russian team, than it would be to stay in the EIHL hoping a team from NA or Sweden will notice you (like Phillips and Dowd) but you are allowed to disagree, that's just my opinion, it's an endless debate and we will just go round in circles.

We've got more important stuff to discuss now, see my previous post

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05-24-2012, 04:36 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
A) That's not the point. If he wasn't good enough for the VHL, they wouldn't have re-signed him if their intention was to ice a team in the VHL this year?

B) It would be an accomplishment, I already said only Phillips and Longstaff have played at a higher level. It doesn't matter if they would be bad, I'd rather he be on a bad team in the VHL than play in the EIHL.

C) Not saying that at all, there are of course exceptions like Phillips. I'm just saying I think its probably easier for a player to go to Kazakhstan then get noticed by a Russian team, than it would be to stay in the EIHL hoping a team from NA or Sweden will notice you (like Phillips and Dowd) but you are allowed to disagree, that's just my opinion, it's an endless debate and we will just go round in circles.

We've got more important stuff to discuss now, see my previous post
A) False. It's no different than an expansion team in any league. Just as an example (Canada examples can work just fine here), if you decide to move an AHL team to the NHL, you're going to keep some of the AHL players on that team because there isn't full teams of NHL quality players just sitting around to be signed. No different then moving an EPIHL team to the EIHL. Your going to re-sign some of those EPIHL players because there isn't teams of EIHL quality players at your disposal.

B) Any hockey player, ever, would tell you they'd rather play for a winner than a loser. I'd definitely rather play in a league where my contribution makes a difference and my team competes every single night than go to a new league with a team where you know your team isn't on par with them and get routed every night.

C) O'Connor didn't go to Kazakhstan, and get noticed by a Russian team. He went to Kazakhstan and his team is getting bumped up a league.



As for the Olympic pre-qualifiers, it doesn't surprise me that much with the link you posted. The lack of IIHF funding is an impossible obstacle when IHUK can't get funding themselves, they obviously don't have the cash to drop on a tournament like that. The lack of ice time is ridiculous and I think it's a direct result of allowing the majority of the countries rinks to be privately owned (unless I'm confused).

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05-24-2012, 04:47 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
A) False. It's no different than an expansion team in any league. Just as an example (Canada examples can work just fine here), if you decide to move an AHL team to the NHL, you're going to keep some of the AHL players on that team because there isn't full teams of NHL quality players just sitting around to be signed. No different then moving an EPIHL team to the EIHL. Your going to re-sign some of those EPIHL players because there isn't teams of EIHL quality players at your disposal.

B) Any hockey player, ever, would tell you they'd rather play for a winner than a loser. I'd definitely rather play in a league where my contribution makes a difference and my team competes every single night than go to a new league with a team where you know your team isn't on par with them and get routed every night.

C) O'Connor didn't go to Kazakhstan, and get noticed by a Russian team. He went to Kazakhstan and his team is getting bumped up a league.



As for the Olympic pre-qualifiers, it doesn't surprise me that much with the link you posted. The lack of IIHF funding is an impossible obstacle when IHUK can't get funding themselves, they obviously don't have the cash to drop on a tournament like that. The lack of ice time is ridiculous and I think it's a direct result of allowing the majority of the countries rinks to be privately owned (unless I'm confused).
A) This is not the NHL, the players are not under long term binding contracts, that's why the NHL has the expansion draft. The players move around a lot more in Europe so it wouldn't be that difficult to sign enough good players. How do you explain Braehead finishing 6th in their first season of EIHL? If a team has enough money they can do it, we don't know how much money Ben O'Connor's team has so we can't make assumptions.

If Guildford were to move up to the EIHL yes they would re-sign their top British players such as Longstaff who are actually good enough for the EIHL, then get their imports from elsewhere. There are many EPL players who are good enough to play in the EIHL but don't for a number of reasons including it's cheaper for the EIHL team to sign a local kid, geography, and ice time. If Guildford do in fact have as much money as everyone claims they do, then they would have no problem stepping up to the EIHL.

B) It's about what's best for the development of the player, not whether they want to win or not. I don't recall you complaining about Jack Prince going to UAH, who only won two games last season.

C) I know he didn't, but that doesn't make a difference to the point. His team re-signed him pretty much immediately after the season ended, if he had held out who is to say another team would not have tried to get him? Maybe that's why they re-signed him so quickly.


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05-24-2012, 05:33 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
A) This is not the NHL, the players are not under long term binding contracts, that's why the NHL has the expansion draft. The players move around a lot more in Europe so it wouldn't be that difficult to sign enough good players. How do you explain Braehead finishing 6th in their first season of EIHL? If a team has enough money they can do it, we don't know how much money Ben O'Connor's team has so we can't make assumptions.

If Guildford were to move up to the EIHL yes they would re-sign their top British players such as Longstaff who are actually good enough for the EIHL, then get their imports from elsewhere. There are many EPL players who are good enough to play in the EIHL but don't for a number of reasons including it's cheaper for the EIHL team to sign a local kid, geography, and ice time. If Guildford do in fact have as much money as everyone claims they do, then they would have no problem stepping up to the EIHL.

B) It's about what's best for the development of the player, not whether they want to win or not. I don't recall you complaining about Jack Prince going to UAH, who only won two games last season.

C) I know he didn't, but that doesn't make a difference to the point. His team re-signed him pretty much immediately after the season ended, if he had held out who is to say another team would not have tried to get him? Maybe that's why they re-signed him so quickly.
A) Obviously it's not but the example works. I said expansion team (forgot to backspace that before I posted) but in my example I was talking about an AHL team moving up into the NHL. And expansion drafts are mostly AHL quality players which is why the most recent 4 expansion teams only has 1 decent team after 10+ years.

B) Pretty sure when I posted the Jack Prince move I said, and I quote, "Obviously not a hockey hotbed." Nobody said anything about Prince and the move at all after I posted so what did you want me to do? Go on a rant about how bad the school is? It was kind of obvious. You said earlier not to make assumptions but your assuming that playing in the VHL is whats best for O'Connors development. That's an assumption seeing as he has never played in the league and might be very overwhelmed. Who knows? We can't assume right?

C)Again, you're making assumptions that other teams would be interested but you said not to make assumptions

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05-24-2012, 05:45 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
A) Obviously it's not but the example works. I said expansion team (forgot to backspace that before I posted) but in my example I was talking about an AHL team moving up into the NHL. And expansion drafts are mostly AHL quality players which is why the most recent 4 expansion teams only has 1 decent team after 10+ years.

B) Pretty sure when I posted the Jack Prince move I said, and I quote, "Obviously not a hockey hotbed." Nobody said anything about Prince and the move at all after I posted so what did you want me to do? Go on a rant about how bad the school is? It was kind of obvious. You said earlier not to make assumptions but your assuming that playing in the VHL is whats best for O'Connors development. That's an assumption seeing as he has never played in the league and might be very overwhelmed. Who knows? We can't assume right?

C)Again, you're making assumptions that other teams would be interested but you said not to make assumptions
A European expansion is different to an NHL one though, in Europe you can sign anyone you want but in the NHL there aren't enough NHL-quality free agents in the offseason, so yes you are correct to say an AHL team moving up to the NHL would suck, but that's only because there's a lack of available free agents due to the nature of NHL contracts.

When you said the "not a hockey hotbed" thing I just thought that was a joke about the location, lol.

I said we can't make assumption about how well the team will do because we don't know how much money they have. We are allowed to make assumptions about what's best for player development because it always gets beaten to death on here whether a player should go the NCAA or CHL route you can only assume in these situations because it's impossible to tell.

I wasn't making an assumption, I was "exploring all the probable possibilities"

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05-24-2012, 06:36 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
A European expansion is different to an NHL one though, in Europe you can sign anyone you want but in the NHL there aren't enough NHL-quality free agents in the offseason, so yes you are correct to say an AHL team moving up to the NHL would suck, but that's only because there's a lack of available free agents due to the nature of NHL contracts.

When you said the "not a hockey hotbed" thing I just thought that was a joke about the location, lol.

I said we can't make assumption about how well the team will do because we don't know how much money they have. We are allowed to make assumptions about what's best for player development because it always gets beaten to death on here whether a player should go the NCAA or CHL route you can only assume in these situations because it's impossible to tell.

I wasn't making an assumption, I was "exploring all the probable possibilities"
I can't even follow your thought process right now, it's all over the place. Somehow you think a team in Kazakhstan has a better chance of drawing in quality players from around the world than an NHL team.

I think it's a pretty big assumption to say that playing in a higher league is automatically better for player development but somehow you think you can justify your assumption by saying it's impossible to tell.

I bet nobody talked about Ben O'Connor this much on an internet forum in a long time! Which is why we should end this chapter and move on to another.

Jack Prince at University of Alabama-Huntsville. Apparently I didn't talk about this one enough so I'll get into it now. Alabama-Huntsville sucks. It's been bad ever since '06 and they haven't developed a quality hockey skater since Jared Ross (Graduate of '05). They have some decent goalies in their past but nothing outstanding. I didn't really expect Jack Prince to go on to become an NHLer or step into Boston College (for example) and become a superstar but I hoped he'd go to a school where he can learn a lot about the game. He could very well do that in Alabama-Huntsville, they have a decent young coach in Chris Luongo but it isn't as likely. The one and only bright side I can think of for going to Alabama-Huntsville is that he may get some decent ice time right away.

The school announced early this year that they'd scrap their program due to financial reasons for the 2012-13 season but they reversed that soon after. They are now looking to move into the WCHA conference in 2013-14 which is a pretty good group of schools. It's going to be interesting to watch this one play out. My hope was that Prince would get a chance to go to a decent school known for hockey, play depth role early on and by the time he was in year 3 & 4 he'd be a big part of the team.




Edit:
Quote:
Ben Bowns ‏@bownsy21
New contract finally signed and sent back Looking forward to it now!
Where?

Edit x2: I read Hull which I'm pretty sure most told me no way.


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05-24-2012, 07:02 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I can't even follow your thought process right now, it's all over the place. Somehow you think a team in Kazakhstan has a better chance of drawing in quality players from around the world than an NHL team.
I don't think that, I'm saying its easier for a European expansion team to get players for their level than an NHL expansion team without the draft. There are obviously less NHL standard players in the world than VHL or Kazakh league standard, and it doesn't help that very few of those NHL standard players are free agents in the summer.

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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
I think it's a pretty big assumption to say that playing in a higher league is automatically better for player development but somehow you think you can justify your assumption by saying it's impossible to tell.
I'll just leave this part alone because I've completely lost myself on how we've got here.

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Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
Jack Prince at University of Alabama-Huntsville. Apparently I didn't talk about this one enough so I'll get into it now. Alabama-Huntsville sucks. It's been bad ever since '06 and they haven't developed a quality hockey skater since Jared Ross (Graduate of '05). They have some decent goalies in their past but nothing outstanding. I didn't really expect Jack Prince to go on to become an NHLer or step into Boston College (for example) and become a superstar but I hoped he'd go to a school where he can learn a lot about the game. He could very well do that in Alabama-Huntsville, they have a decent young coach in Chris Luongo but it isn't as likely. The one and only bright side I can think of for going to Alabama-Huntsville is that he may get some decent ice time right away.

The school announced early this year that they'd scrap their program due to financial reasons for the 2012-13 season but they reversed that soon after. They are now looking to move into the WCHA conference in 2013-14 which is a pretty good group of schools. It's going to be interesting to watch this one play out. My hope was that Prince would get a chance to go to a decent school known for hockey, play depth role early on and by the time he was in year 3 & 4 he'd be a big part of the team.
Yeah I did some research on them, at the moment they basically go around playing whatever D1 schools will play against them don't they? Is WCHA the division with U of M and UMD? He'd get to play against some good players if they do gain entry to that division then.

Maybe they will be better this year, who knows. At least he is playing for a D1 school, I don't know much about NCAA so is there a big difference between D1 and D3 standard?

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05-24-2012, 07:20 PM
  #394
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HUGE difference.
Division 3 is mostly guys who are simply looking to play some hockey while they get their degree from their university. Majority of the league won't be playing hockey as a career, I'm interested to see what Danny Wood does with Sheffield next season. A Div 3 player going straight to the EIHL doesn't happen every year lol.

Div I still has some poor quality hockey teams but it's still a higher quality of hockey for the most part. A lot of guys still won't be playing the game as a profession but the numbers are way way way higher than Div. 3.

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05-25-2012, 05:52 AM
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I figured D3 wasn't very good because Invicta in ENL1 (the third tier) typically get their imports from there, although they are much better than all the British players and usually lead the league in scoring, but that is the point of imports. While there are lots of guys who played D1 in the EIHL. What is CIS like compared to NCAA?

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05-25-2012, 05:59 AM
  #396
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I can speak Russian and read the Kazakh team's site, it looks like they're still in the application process, although a commission from the VHL has been to see the facilities and and the team management went to see the VHL.

I would also rate the Allsvenska about any of the Russian developmental leagues.



With Bowns signing a contract now after already agreeing to sign for a team a while ago it sounds like Hull with their ownership issues.

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05-25-2012, 06:11 AM
  #397
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Bowns will come on a lot at Hull, if indeed that is the club he signs for, and that club decides he is the no.1 starter, but I cant see them building a team that will propel them out of that bottom half of the table club. If Bowns is Hull's no.1 he is going to be on the end of some drubbings that's for sure.


Jasik signs for the Hornets; was a bit surprised at that one, will do them the world of good and means we'll be getting a new import, hopefully someone who can rack up a few more points then Jasik did.

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05-25-2012, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I figured D3 wasn't very good because Invicta in ENL1 (the third tier) typically get their imports from there, although they are much better than all the British players and usually lead the league in scoring, but that is the point of imports. While there are lots of guys who played D1 in the EIHL. What is CIS like compared to NCAA?
The CIS and NCAA are two very difference leagues. The CIS is packed with former CHL players (WHL/OHL/QMJHL). The typical CIS player played out his CHL career and is now getting his entire schooling or part of his schooling paid for by the CHL. There's a saying around here, "Good enough for the ECHL but smart enough for the CIS." A lot of players in the CIS could easily go and play in the ECHL, but they'd rather take advantage of the CHL's offer of paying for school and get an education.

The prototypical CIS player is Stuart MacRae of Cardiff. He played 5 QMJHL seasons, 4 CIS seasons, 2 ECHL seasons, 2 CHL seasons (not the Canadian league, I donno why they name leagues the same like this...) Then he went to UK. He knew he wasn't going to leave the QMJHL and be an NHL star. He probably had some ECHL offers but instead went to school (closest CIS team to his home and a pretty highly regarded school in the country). Tried his hand at pro here in North America then took advantage of an opportunity to play abroad.

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05-25-2012, 07:57 AM
  #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Thilander View Post
The CIS and NCAA are two very difference leagues. The CIS is packed with former CHL players (WHL/OHL/QMJHL). The typical CIS player played out his CHL career and is now getting his entire schooling or part of his schooling paid for by the CHL. There's a saying around here, "Good enough for the ECHL but smart enough for the CIS." A lot of players in the CIS could easily go and play in the ECHL, but they'd rather take advantage of the CHL's offer of paying for school and get an education.

The prototypical CIS player is Stuart MacRae of Cardiff. He played 5 QMJHL seasons, 4 CIS seasons, 2 ECHL seasons, 2 CHL seasons (not the Canadian league, I donno why they name leagues the same like this...) Then he went to UK. He knew he wasn't going to leave the QMJHL and be an NHL star. He probably had some ECHL offers but instead went to school (closest CIS team to his home and a pretty highly regarded school in the country). Tried his hand at pro here in North America then took advantage of an opportunity to play abroad.
Major Jr players can't play NCAA because Major Jr is considered a pro league by NCAA.
Besides what the above poster said many CIS schools offer Athletic Financial Awards...scholarships.
So for example every year the Q graduates 100 players.
20 take the chance on low minors to live the dream. About 50 take the Q bursary and AFA's and get a free education (important to note that the player doesn't have to play hockey at a uni or college to get the bursary)
And about 30 get a job.
For those that continue hockey the low minors is still an option as they'll still be only 24 or 25 after CIS.
NCAA is a different animal as high end U-19 prospects will play. Not like CIS that is basically accepting those that played out Jr with-out being drafted or offered minimum AHL contracts.
I should add that CIS also has many Jr A players as they've attended the CIS school whilst playing Jr A. NCAA takes many Jr A players after graduating High School as well at 18 or 19. CIS after they're overage year in either Major Jr or Jr A as many Major Jr players complete they're Jr years in Jr A.


Last edited by Alpine: 05-25-2012 at 08:29 AM.
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05-25-2012, 04:15 PM
  #400
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Just to add to the CIS debate.(?)
What you have are highly disciplined highly motivated student athletes that manged education and sport.
Maybe EIHL should look more towards this group.

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