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Hockey in Britain part 2

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Old
05-31-2012, 09:58 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
Its a sad sight to see Oakford, Nicky Watt, Joe Greener, Savage, and others sign up again in the EPL, they and others could do a good job in the Elite, these are the types of guys that could have gone and made that step up, filled those gaps, gone on to develop further, these are future GB players in the making. But now they are going to be filled by, and lets face it now, NA guys who havent really cut it back home and are coming to Europe.
Well it works both ways. If they want to be signed by EIHL clubs, then they have to treat hockey as a professional career, rather than a hobby.

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05-31-2012, 10:13 AM
  #427
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Well it works both ways. If they want to be signed by EIHL clubs, then they have to treat hockey as a professional career, rather than a hobby.
I know one of the guys on that list personally, and you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Plus, British hockey is hardly a professional career, even at EIHL level, and especially EPL. Unless you are Steve Moria, you won't be playing into your late 40's, if you don't go into coaching you've basically got nowhere to go once your career is over. Many EIHL players actually study at University while they're playing.


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05-31-2012, 10:22 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
They may earn more wages, but they certainly don't have higher overhead costs. How much do you think the ITC alone costs?

British players stick around in the same area longer, so they'll have bought their own car or house. Imports come and go very often, they have to be given cars, houses, team equipment. You don't have to do that for guys who have played most of their careers for the club.

One of the main reasons Fife and Edinburgh don't have good Brits is because their junior systems are crap, while Sheffield continue to pump out the players year after year.
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If thats the case then give the smaller teams a good 2/3/4 more imports then the bigger teams. Rising import levels do nothing for the disparity between teams if the bar is raised for everyone.

Some of the smaller teams can barely fill their quota, and I suspect most of those try to fill it to make sure people turn up to games. And those teams that do manage to fill their quota often sign not so great imports. Are some of those not so great imports better then Brits....yes I'm sure some of them are, but the tag of the import, flying them in, getting their ITC cards and everything else means they should be some of the best players and some teams arent signing great imports, they are just signing, in some cases to make up the numbers.
A lot of players don't have cars or houses in the area. I know Meyers has his own house in the Nottingham area, but his car was provided by the team. Most of the Brits for the Steelers got team cars, or like the younger guys (Squires, Esders) were living with imports with cars.

I have no idea at all how much an ITC card costs, but return flights to North America on a cheaper airline for 11 players shouldn't be ridiculous.


The league needs to be more competitive, but it shouldn't pander to the "weaker teams" by giving them 2+ more imports, they need to develop their own Brits better and spend wisely. Edinburgh did very well with some quality players from central/Eastern Europe and at least had a shot at making the playoffs for most of the year.

There are good European players to get and flesh out a team, but a lot of the bottom 6 teams just seem to pony up for some very disappointing, more expensive North American players.

Looking at guys coming out of the NCAA and CIS should be a priority as well, if a guy isn't going to be going pro with a NHL, AHL, ECHL team maybe you could give him a cheap 1 year deal and let him have one shot at playing in Europe before he goes home to work.


Bobby McKwen seems to want Hull to stay in the EIHL, so it will remain as 10 teams.

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05-31-2012, 10:30 AM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I know one of the guys on that list personally, and you really have no idea what you are talking about.
I've dealt with and come across plenty of Brits and as a rule it's correct, there are very few true 'professionals' in the game, they're just treating it as a jolly and can't be bothered challenging themselves. There are a fair few imports about which I could say the same however so maybe it's the environment they're in. I've always felt players are far too accessible to the fans especially as they both bring out the worst in each other. I can't believe what they're allowed to get away with simply because they're so-called 'stars', and the coaches and management know full well what's going on.

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05-31-2012, 10:30 AM
  #430
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Last I heard, an ITC card costs over 800

And the costs of flights does add up, in Tony Hand's book he said he tried to only sign imports without partners and families to keep costs down.

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05-31-2012, 10:33 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by mattski93 View Post
I've dealt with and come across plenty of Brits and as a rule it's correct, there are very few true 'professionals' in the game, they're just treating it as a jolly and can't be bothered challenging themselves. There are a fair few imports about which I could say the same however so maybe it's the environment they're in. I've always felt players are far too accessible to the fans especially as they both bring out the worst in each other. I can't believe what they're allowed to get away with simply because they're so-called 'stars', and the coaches and management know full well what's going on.
Well if the British game was actually professional and organised more professionally, you might actually have a point.

If you're a southern EPL player what do you do? Continue playing EPL and keep a decent paying day job, or move up north giving up your job to play better hockey for a little bit more pay with nowhere to go afterwards?

God forbid people enjoy playing a game, but I have been there on the ice at EPL games standing next to the benches, and I assure you it isn't at all ***** and giggles. What they do off the ice doesn't matter, look at what some of the NHL players get up to; Patrick Kane anyone?


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05-31-2012, 10:35 AM
  #432
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Well it works both ways. If they want to be signed by EIHL clubs, then they have to treat hockey as a professional career, rather than a hobby.
Most do treat hockey as professionaly as they can, quite hard when the majority have a 9-5 job and training is at midnight, with some Sunday away games meaning coming home at 1/2/3 am in the morning.

They can only do their best in the EPL, its up to the Elite teams to notice and sign them, the guys cant go round all the coaches houses with a powerpoint presentation of look how good and capable I am. The Elite coaches need to get off their backside and look at the resources that are in the EPL and ENL. Some do, to a certain extent, but mostly EPL Brits get left there.

If an EPL Brit, capable of playing Elite doesnt get an offer from an Elite team what can he do? The door becomes closed.

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05-31-2012, 10:53 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
The league needs to be more competitive, but it shouldn't pander to the "weaker teams" by giving them 2+ more imports, they need to develop their own Brits better and spend wisely. Edinburgh did very well with some quality players from central/Eastern Europe and at least had a shot at making the playoffs for most of the year.
Whilst the Caps did better than usual, they were still a whopping 65 points behind Belfast, and finishing 9th they were still a good 36 points behind the team in 6th place. Those huge points differences are a direct result of the huge difference in quality of their rosters.

Develop their own Brits and invest more wisely - what does that mean specifically?

Going by Elite Prospects, 10 of the Caps Brits came from within last season. And some more are playing for other Elite and EPL sides, I dont really think there is much wrong with their junior side tbh. If the Caps and other poor sides can barely assemble an Elite league side how are they supposed to invest also in a junior side to get better Brits? One surely has to come first, they cant afford to do both? And for that matter I dont see any Elite side actually investing in junior sides, apart from Regan at Cardiff, and maybe one or two others. Most Elite clubs are separate entities to any junior sides.

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05-31-2012, 10:57 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by PuddlesTheDuck View Post
Looking at guys coming out of the NCAA and CIS should be a priority as well, if a guy isn't going to be going pro with a NHL, AHL, ECHL team maybe you could give him a cheap 1 year deal and let him have one shot at playing in Europe before he goes home to work.
Surely if the guy isnt going pro, its generally because he isnt good enough right? And that goes back to my main point, the bigger teams will sign those who are and have been good enough to hit AHL, ECHL etc. Signing lesser NCAA and CIS guys isnt going to be much more help then signing lesser Euro guys.

Tbh in an ideal world in which the EPL was open to work permit imports, I'd say those NCAA and CIS guys would be more suited to our league, see a bit of the world for a year or two, maybe add another smaller degree if the team has uni connections then buggar off back home.

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05-31-2012, 02:29 PM
  #435
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Surely if the guy isnt going pro, its generally because he isnt good enough right? And that goes back to my main point, the bigger teams will sign those who are and have been good enough to hit AHL, ECHL etc. Signing lesser NCAA and CIS guys isnt going to be much more help then signing lesser Euro guys.

Tbh in an ideal world in which the EPL was open to work permit imports, I'd say those NCAA and CIS guys would be more suited to our league, see a bit of the world for a year or two, maybe add another smaller degree if the team has uni connections then buggar off back home.
Players slip through the gaps, guys told they aren't big enough for the pros or late bloomers. Chad Huttel was signed by us last season after getting no offers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
Whilst the Caps did better than usual, they were still a whopping 65 points behind Belfast, and finishing 9th they were still a good 36 points behind the team in 6th place. Those huge points differences are a direct result of the huge difference in quality of their rosters.

Develop their own Brits and invest more wisely - what does that mean specifically?

Going by Elite Prospects, 10 of the Caps Brits came from within last season. And some more are playing for other Elite and EPL sides, I dont really think there is much wrong with their junior side tbh. If the Caps and other poor sides can barely assemble an Elite league side how are they supposed to invest also in a junior side to get better Brits? One surely has to come first, they cant afford to do both? And for that matter I dont see any Elite side actually investing in junior sides, apart from Regan at Cardiff, and maybe one or two others. Most Elite clubs are separate entities to any junior sides.

Get local lads on 2-way deals with lower league teams, get your hooks into them early and make sure they want to win with your team.
The Caps aren't as bad for it, but it seems every off-season groups of Brits from the likes of Dundee, Braehead, Fife, Hull etc swap teams, they need to do what they can to get them to stay in the area, if that means helping them to get a secure job there and playing as well, so be it.

Edinburgh need to partner up with some kind of radio station or something because no-one in the city know they exist. Even the people at the hotel just up the road have no idea they play just down the road in spite of groups of people coming to stay there during the year!
They have money problems, so get someone in the business to sponsor them and advertise them.

If they can do ticket deals bringing in schools or whatever it might be more successful this year for "weaker teams" with them playing each other, which should in theory make for more competitive games.
Last season Hull tried this, but kept losing the games they brought people to, and poor games aren't going to encourage many people to come back.



Speaking of Hull tonight they announced they've signed Ben Bowns to a 2 year deal as well as Chris Sykes and Janis Ozlins from the Sheffield Steeldogs and returning scorer Jereme Tendler to a 2 year deal.

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05-31-2012, 02:50 PM
  #436
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Good to see Ozolins stepping up, he was by far the best player in the EPL last year. Sykes had a disappointing season, surprised he's made the step up.

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06-01-2012, 09:55 AM
  #437
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Hull seem to be looking to get their hands on any Brits at the moment, they lost a few (including Harper) to Dundee during the ownership process.

From their fan forum last night they also said talks with Matty Davies are on-going and they'll talk to Bobby Chamberlain once he returns from Canada.

Rumour was they're looking to get the Haywood who played for the Steeldogs last season (I get the 2 of them confused ).


An Italian newspaper says that the Steelers are trying to sign Adam Henrique from HC Aleghe.

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06-01-2012, 10:46 AM
  #438
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Good to see Ozolins stepping up, he was by far the best player in the EPL last year. Sykes had a disappointing season, surprised he's made the step up.
Give Ozolins two speedy line mates and they'll rack up the points. Hope Bowns gets a better D in front of him then Craze did at the Caps.

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06-03-2012, 07:07 PM
  #439
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It's dead in here right now, there's not a lot going on in the British hockey world

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06-03-2012, 07:17 PM
  #440
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It's dead in here right now, there's not a lot going on in the British hockey world
Any news from Okanagan Hockey?

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06-03-2012, 07:28 PM
  #441
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Any news from Okanagan Hockey?
They had a free open tryout weekend a couple of weeks ago, it was well attended apparently.

The team will be taking trips to Europe, the costs for which are covered in the inital fee of 16,500 for a non-Swindon resident and 13,500 for a Swindon resident (that probably means nothing to you so you will have to figure out how much that is in dollars yourself). They will also be playing games against England U16's and the conference U17 teams.

The only confirmed player I know of so far is Michael Stratford from Swindon, I posted that a while ago.

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06-03-2012, 08:07 PM
  #442
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They had a free open tryout weekend a couple of weeks ago, it was well attended apparently.

The team will be taking trips to Europe, the costs for which are covered in the inital fee of 16,500 for a non-Swindon resident and 13,500 for a Swindon resident (that probably means nothing to you so you will have to figure out how much that is in dollars yourself). They will also be playing games against England U16's and the conference U17 teams.

The only confirmed player I know of so far is Michael Stratford from Swindon, I posted that a while ago.
Damn that's $26,500 Canadian... I could pay off my student loans with that

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06-03-2012, 08:17 PM
  #443
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Damn that's $26,500 Canadian... I could pay off my student loans with that
Stuff is just more expensive in England, last time I went to America I was amazed I could buy a fairly large bottle of Gatorade from a vending machine for 1 dollar, while in England a typical vending machine sells these for 1.50:



And you think you have it bad with student loans? University fees in England are 9,000 per year

Also you might want to check out the Drew Doughty thread in the NHL section, I've been bigging up your boy Adam Thilander


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06-04-2012, 05:53 AM
  #444
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Stuff is just more expensive in England, last time I went to America I was amazed I could buy a fairly large bottle of Gatorade from a vending machine for 1 dollar, while in England a typical vending machine sells these for 1.50:



And you think you have it bad with student loans? University fees in England are 9,000 per year

Also you might want to check out the Drew Doughty thread in the NHL section, I've been bigging up your boy Adam Thilander
Last night i realised i will be 23 in 2 weeks. Combine that with other guilt ridden late night activities, and i felt hagged and old. 22 is the last year of youth, 23 is equal distance between 21 and 25, thus i am basically 25.

Then i realised, by winning the sperm race in 1989, i just avoided the University tuition rises + rising living costs.

Enjoy your 40k debt

Of course you could counter with a picture showing your parents magnificient wealth, and this brag would all be in vain.

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06-04-2012, 06:03 AM
  #445
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Last night i realised i will be 23 in 2 weeks. Combine that with other guilt ridden late night activities, and i felt hagged and old. 22 is the last year of youth, 23 is equal distance between 21 and 25, thus i am basically 25.

Then i realised, by winning the sperm race in 1989, i just avoided the University tuition rises + rising living costs.

Enjoy your 40k debt

Of course you could counter with a picture showing your parents magnificient wealth, and this brag would all be in vain.
I could have avoided it by going to Uni last year, but after my first year of college I decided the A levels I was doing (Maths and Sport) weren't for me and I had crap results in those anyway. I carried on with business studies and did history, economics and law, meaning I had to do an extra year in college before I could go to Uni.

So most of my school friends are already in Uni and paying the lower fees, while I am part of the first year of students who have to pay the higher fees

It won't be so bad for me though, the tuition fees loan is the only one I'll be paying back. The maintenance grant doesn't get paid back right? And I won't need an extra loan for living because I've got nearly 10k in a savings account ready.

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06-04-2012, 07:30 AM
  #446
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So are you planning on that 10K to last the three years, and are you living at home or living in halls? With the later you piss away money like there's no tomorrow. Depending on your uni you can apply for extra money through them, also depends on your household income etc.

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06-04-2012, 08:22 AM
  #447
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So are you planning on that 10K to last the three years, and are you living at home or living in halls? With the later you piss away money like there's no tomorrow. Depending on your uni you can apply for extra money through them, also depends on your household income etc.
I'm in halls and I get a maintenance grant of around 5,000, I can't remember the exact figure. I'm also in a catered hall so I won't be spending much on food.

I'll also still be raking in the cash from reffing as well, during Hull weekend I made over 200 because I reffed 12's, 14's and women's on my own. I spent all my money on a car in March and since then I've been able to earn enough to buy myself a whole new set of goalie pads with just my reffing earnings, so go figure. And some **** on THF told me we are short of refs because they get paid crap

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06-04-2012, 09:05 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by 99 Problems View Post
I could have avoided it by going to Uni last year, but after my first year of college I decided the A levels I was doing (Maths and Sport) weren't for me and I had crap results in those anyway. I carried on with business studies and did history, economics and law, meaning I had to do an extra year in college before I could go to Uni.

So most of my school friends are already in Uni and paying the lower fees, while I am part of the first year of students who have to pay the higher fees

It won't be so bad for me though, the tuition fees loan is the only one I'll be paying back. The maintenance grant doesn't get paid back right? And I won't need an extra loan for living because I've got nearly 10k in a savings account ready.
Translation. Daddy Waddy will bail me out.

I had a maintenance loan of 3k per year, along with a Tuition loan of just over 3k per annum. If you have a grant, it's not repayable. I wasn't eligible for a grant, so my maintenance loans are re-payable if and when i finally become a tax payer in the UK.

I have about 5k in savings when i went to Uni, and spent none of it. Managed to fund all my stupid activities through my maintenance loan/parents so when i left Uni, i'd actually have money to have fun. I lived in halls and house for all 3 years, and managed to survive, and given your maintenance grant works out even with inflation as much more than i recieved, you shouldn't really need to touch the 10k.

Unless of course you have a drug problem. Maintenance grants won't help Herroin addicts long-term.

If i recall, you're doing a History degree. They're 3 years, 6-8 hours a week, not much capital is required to invest in materials/source books. Unaware of whether you are eligible for a grant for all 3 years, but you're debt will still be 30kish.

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06-04-2012, 09:23 AM
  #449
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I'll also still be raking in the cash from reffing as well, during Hull weekend I made over 200 because I reffed 12's, 14's and women's on my own. I spent all my money on a car in March and since then I've been able to earn enough to buy myself a whole new set of goalie pads with just my reffing earnings, so go figure. And some **** on THF told me we are short of refs because they get paid crap
Blimey, with that much dough flying about you'd think the refs would actually know what they are doing

Would be nice to see 3 officials for every EPL game next season, two man games are always so frustrating to watch, icing and offsides become somewhat subject to interpretation

Are you able to line EIHL games or just EIHA?

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06-04-2012, 10:13 AM
  #450
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Blimey, with that much dough flying about you'd think the refs would actually know what they are doing

Would be nice to see 3 officials for every EPL game next season, two man games are always so frustrating to watch, icing and offsides become somewhat subject to interpretation

Are you able to line EIHL games or just EIHA?
That was only because I was by myself though, I made over 100 just in game fees, and add on top of that a 100 mile round trip to Basingstoke and a 110 mile round trip to Bracknell at 40p per mile.

EPL does get 3 officials 95% of the time, it gets top priority for officials allocation. The only time a 2man system would ever happen is if someone pulls out at the last minute and they can't find anyone else in time.

I can only do EIHA. I'm hoping to do Elite league in the future but I can't see it happening any time soon unless I have to go to my insurance uni choice (Coventry) or if a southern team (Guildford) joins the league, or if there is a re-structure of the leagues with southern teams joining the top tier.

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