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Old
05-03-2012, 12:15 AM
  #326
GopherState
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13 year-old boys and the Minnesota Twins.


Name two things that haven't reached second base in May.

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05-03-2012, 06:56 AM
  #327
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This is the lowest point in the history of the Twins franchise, I believe. The fans on Facebook are not happy, to say the least. They all keep talking about Gardenhire as if it's his fault, but it's not.

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05-03-2012, 08:07 AM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
If you pitch a no-hitter against the Twins, does it really count?
It shouldn't.

Every time I read this thread lately I get more and more secure in my decision to just plain not watch FSNorth until the Wild's next season starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 651 View Post
This is the lowest point in the history of the Twins franchise, I believe. The fans on Facebook are not happy, to say the least. They all keep talking about Gardenhire as if it's his fault, but it's not.
Someones gonna have to take the fall eventually.

And personally I would not mind a new manager. And pitching coach. And ESPECIALLY a new training staff.

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05-03-2012, 08:19 AM
  #329
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Unfortunately you are right, the only one who can be the scapegoat is Gardy. I like him and it will be hard to swallow but he is going to have to be the scapegoat in this mess. Some other team will scoop him up and I guarantee he will be a winner wherever he goes, just like LeMaire was the best coach and we had to let him go and he made a winner out of a terrible team. If he does go I hope his team wins a championship.

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05-03-2012, 09:25 AM
  #330
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I know nothing about baseball but I do know that I didn't begin to appreciate how awesome Lemaire was until he left.

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05-03-2012, 10:37 AM
  #331
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Nothing will happen to Gardy, they did make a change in the offseason by firing Bill Smith (which I will admit that I was completely wrong about) and that was a good move. Terry Ryan did a decent job this year with what he had, and I'm sure that some of the financial restrictions were due to the ownership, but this is just atrocious on every level. The ERA of the starters is over 7.00! That's absolutely amazing to be THAT bad.

I don't think this kind of thing will last forever as baseball kind of works that way, and even though we go no-hit last night, I think the lineup is much better than that when healthy. The team needs help everywhere though, it's just disappointing and frustrating to see the team like this. The farm has run dry, and we need to draft well upcoming here. I wouldn't mind just bringing in a whole new regime into the mix. We've seen what Gardy can do for about 10 years now, let's move on and try something new. The reliance on "pitch to contact" pitchers worked for a while, but we need something new. I'm ready to move on and thank Gardy and co for what they did. The team is just a mess right now. They have pieces to work with, and maybe a rebuild may be worth it. They're kind of there right now anyway.

Another bad message sent by the front office was dropping the payroll by about $20 million when the rest of the league on average increased their payroll by $9 million. It's year 3 of a brand new Twins stadium and you're already dropping payroll? That's kind of ridiculous if you ask me. The Twins will have some pieces by 2014 that they should be able to compete hopefully. It will just be bad baseball until then most likely. They should focus on getting some close to MLB ready arms for their players at the deadline. Span, Morneau, Caroll, maybe even Willingham to be moved for some younger guys. I can understand not moving Willingham because you don't want to be known as a place that instantly moves guys after signing them to longer term deals (3+), but something has got to change.

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05-03-2012, 12:28 PM
  #332
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In all my years of watching sports, there have been just two times when I predicted my teams would just be straight-up bad.

The first was when Lemaire was pushed out. (FFS the man's name is on the Stanley Cup eleven times.)

The second was the Twins this year. No significant changes to what was already the worst pitching staff in the majors––except letting the all-star closer walk away. Letting the only two consistent hitters on the team walk away. Re-signing the reliever who's so bad he actually got booed by the home fans whenever he took the mound.

Basically what I'm saying is, if even I can't get optimistic at the beginning of the season, then it's pretty much a guarantee that we're totally ****ed.


We don't need to fire Gardy. We do need to fire the entire training staff, fire Rick Anderson (out of a cannon...into the sun), and find a Billy Beane-level genius to be our non-interim GM (and keep Ryan as an adviser). Oh, and we need to be willing to spend money on players not named "Mauer."

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05-03-2012, 12:36 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
In all my years of watching sports, there have been just two times when I predicted my teams would just be straight-up bad.

The first was when Lemaire was pushed out. (FFS the man's name is on the Stanley Cup eleven times.)

The second was the Twins this year. No significant changes to what was already the worst pitching staff in the majors––except letting the all-star closer walk away. Letting the only two consistent hitters on the team walk away. Re-signing the reliever who's so bad he actually got booed by the home fans whenever he took the mound.

Basically what I'm saying is, if even I can't get optimistic at the beginning of the season, then it's pretty much a guarantee that we're totally ****ed.
Since Baker was our best starter last year and Kyle Gibson was going to come in as a very promising rookie this year into our starting rotation and both blew their arms out Tommy John style, I think that was the biggest hit. Willingham has actually pretty much picked up where Cuddy left off.

Other than that, Capper is just plain bad, and we probably should have some how gotten Nathan to stay. If we could have shored up contracts with Cuddy and Kubel, got Willingham and dumped Morneau, while having Baker and Gibson starting, this club would be something. But of course those are big IFs. Ifs don't count.


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05-03-2012, 12:51 PM
  #334
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^Gibson will be a beast if he can stay healthy. Also, the draft is next month, there seems to be some good college arms out there, and picking #2, we should nab a pretty good starter. Hopefully whoever it is can stay healthy and at least earn a call-up at the end of the year.

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05-03-2012, 01:35 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Oh, and we need to be willing to spend money on players not named "Mauer."
Isn't he that Vancouver Canucks fan that did Let's Play Hockey a while back?

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05-03-2012, 01:39 PM
  #336
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They knew all these things coming into the season:
- Liriano not being consistently good since TJ
- Gibson having TJ last year
- Baker being injury-prone
- Pavano getting older
- Capps being terrible

The organization is just a bunch of turds floating in a bowl. The fact they took the stadium money and refuse to spend it is just even worse.

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05-03-2012, 01:48 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
They knew all these things coming into the season:
- Liriano not being consistently good since TJ
- Gibson having TJ last year
- Baker being injury-prone
- Pavano getting older
- Capps being terrible

The organization is just a bunch of turds floating in a bowl. The fact they took the stadium money and refuse to spend it is just even worse.
They're spending more than they ever have, even more during their seven AL Central titles during the '00s. 13th out of 30 teams in the MLB isn't peanuts:

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team

The Rays spend $30M less and they are playing in the toughest division and are the best ATM. A string of bad luck and bad decisions (Punto, Hardy, Nishioka, Ramos, Capps, etc.) are a huge part of this.

We were the poster team for how to run an organization for the better part of the last decade.

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05-03-2012, 01:55 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 651 View Post
They're spending more than they ever have, even more during their seven AL Central titles during the '00s. 13th out of 30 teams in the MLB isn't peanuts:

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team

The Rays spend $30M less and they are playing in the toughest division and are the best ATM. A string of bad luck and bad decisions (Punto, Hardy, Nishioka, Ramos, Capps, etc.) are a huge part of this.

We were the poster team for how to run an organization for the better part of the last decade.
And now we're the poster child for how not to.

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05-03-2012, 02:58 PM
  #339
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651 - Other than injuries last year, what part of all those names listed are considered "bad luck?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
And now we're the poster child for how not to.
I feel like the Twins got a little too arrogant with the "Twins Way" and haven't adapted. It's almost as if something worked well (in this case something being pitch to contact pitchers, making guys go the opposite way, etc.) and they tried to copy it throughout the organization to the point where they were ignoring other strengths.

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05-03-2012, 03:00 PM
  #340
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And 1/4 of it is Mauer's salary. It's just unacceptable to lie to your fans and the taxpayers to get a stadium and then scale spending back.

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05-03-2012, 03:30 PM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
651 - Other than injuries last year, what part of all those names listed are considered "bad luck?"
Of the players I listed as bad decisions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
And 1/4 of it is Mauer's salary. It's just unacceptable to lie to your fans and the taxpayers to get a stadium and then scale spending back.
That's the point, they didn't scale back when they got Target, they spent more.

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05-03-2012, 04:35 PM
  #342
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They promised to keep pace with some of the big dogs, not be mid-pack. They were bottom 10, sometimes bottom 5 before, now they're mid-pack. We basically built the stadium just to keep Mauer, that's it. Not to have a good team, just to keep the one guy who probably paid for half his contract in jersey sales before he signed it.

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05-03-2012, 04:38 PM
  #343
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Well that's your opinion. They clearly have paid more since Target opened.

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05-03-2012, 04:45 PM
  #344
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Quote:
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Of the players I listed as bad decisions?


That's the point, they didn't scale back when they got Target, they spent more.
Reading comprehension fail.

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05-03-2012, 04:49 PM
  #345
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They've paid more, but not as much as they had promised. They said they needed the money to keep up with the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. They are spending WAY less than those teams.

My problem is that they told us they needed the stadium in order to spend money. They are making money hand over fist between the stadium and TV deal. And they did absolutely nothing to address their pitching this summer, which was atrocious. They also let Cuddyer and Kubel walk (and Thome to a lesser extent). Sure they brought in Willingham, but that replaces only one of those guys.

The team is poorly run, the owner is cheap, they misled the fans and taxpayers...it's just a crappy organization top to bottom. I'm glad they suck because that's exactly what they deserve.

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05-03-2012, 05:17 PM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
They've paid more, but not as much as they had promised. They said they needed the money to keep up with the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. They are spending WAY less than those teams.

My problem is that they told us they needed the stadium in order to spend money. They are making money hand over fist between the stadium and TV deal. And they did absolutely nothing to address their pitching this summer, which was atrocious. They also let Cuddyer and Kubel walk (and Thome to a lesser extent). Sure they brought in Willingham, but that replaces only one of those guys.

The team is poorly run, the owner is cheap, they misled the fans and taxpayers...it's just a crappy organization top to bottom. I'm glad they suck because that's exactly what they deserve.
I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this one. No big deal.

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05-03-2012, 05:20 PM
  #347
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Reading comprehension fail.
Combination of both, I suppose. Never should have let Hardy, Punto or Ramos go. Nishioka and Capps were both bad decision to pick up (we later found out) and bad luck.

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05-03-2012, 05:56 PM
  #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
They've paid more, but not as much as they had promised. They said they needed the money to keep up with the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. They are spending WAY less than those teams.

My problem is that they told us they needed the stadium in order to spend money. They are making money hand over fist between the stadium and TV deal. And they did absolutely nothing to address their pitching this summer, which was atrocious. They also let Cuddyer and Kubel walk (and Thome to a lesser extent). Sure they brought in Willingham, but that replaces only one of those guys.

The team is poorly run, the owner is cheap, they misled the fans and taxpayers...it's just a crappy organization top to bottom. I'm glad they suck because that's exactly what they deserve.
Cuddyer is replaced by Willingham who is a better player, and came cheaper.

Kubel was given a fair offer, but he wanted out.

Thome wanted to play for a contender.

The Twins were not in a position to compete for elite free agents due to the lack of competitiveness on their roster. The Twins spend money when it's a good investment. There were few good investments that were interested in the Twins this offseason.

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05-03-2012, 06:21 PM
  #349
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Idk about calling Willingham a better player than Cuddyer already. Willingham is just awful in the field...and Cuddyer was a huge clubhouse guy.

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05-03-2012, 06:29 PM
  #350
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Yeah Willingham replaces Cuddyer at bat but is Delmon Young in the field.

Actually that's another thing the Twins have really gotten away from - for a team who were once known for spectacular defense, they have a lot of below average guys in the field.

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