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A modest proposal (VAN - TBL), No Schneider!

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Old
04-18-2012, 11:54 PM
  #51
TTOMO
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Schneider isn't going anywhere.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:04 AM
  #52
Kevin8se7en
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Lol I'm glad I started this thread.
Half say moving down 12 spots and giving up Malone for Lou and Raymond is terrible
The other half say the opposite

Lol, I guess its not a bad proposal if HF can't agree? Haha

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:06 AM
  #53
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TB would be pretty sick next year with Lou. Lou thrives with more shots against like his days in florida. if hedman steps up and a good goalie TB finishes in top 5 in east next season.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:09 AM
  #54
The Fear Boners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
but TB does need some fowards as a Canuck fan I'd do it.
no, they don't

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:18 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I agree that SY will look at every available goalie in the off season, but with C-Bus, Chicago, NJ, Toronto, Florida?, TB all looking to add I think there will be some competition out there for the few available starters.

I also think that there is "warts" so to speak on all the available guys. Harding has had health issues, especially when asked to carry a larger work load. With no other back-up and Bernier signed through next season I'm not sure LA is going to be actively shopping Bernier and with the team looking to win now I don't think LA would be very interested in picks so you would need to expect the asking price to be a scoring winger (can't see there being any interest in Purcell either). Vokoun will be able to choose where he goes, but if people think Lou is getting old at 33, TV will be 36 at the start of next year.

If you want to talk connections, SY had Lou on team Canada at the Olympics and won gold with him in net so I would think there might be a connection there.
With risk comes cost. Harding should come a touch cheaper if he wants a bigger role and i'm comfortable with Garon splitting time. Vokoun would be a 1 year thing.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:18 AM
  #56
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
no, they don't
not sure exactly what their team looks like for next year but Raymond is definitely an upgrade over half their fowards from this year.
Wyman, Shannon, Labrie, Wallace, Thompson, Hall, Tyrell, Brown, Pyatt.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:23 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
not sure exactly what their team looks like for next year but Raymond is definitely an upgrade over half their fowards from this year.
Wyman, Shannon, Labrie, Wallace, Thompson, Hall, Tyrell, Brown, Pyatt.
I agree, i'd rather have 10-10-20 out of Raymond for 2.5 million rather than the 12-7-19 for 600k from Pyatt. Shannon is a free agent. You couldn't pay me to take Raymond over Thompson. Hall is a free agent. Tyrell is coming off a knee injury. Wyman is whatever, not worried about him. Labrie will be in the A, Wallace will battle for Halls spot, Brown will battle for a spot in the top six.

Killorn and Conacher will be battling for spots, too. I'd rather have half of those guys over Raymond. Outside of Conacher, at least those guys can play the body.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:43 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback91 View Post
not sure exactly what their team looks like for next year but Raymond is definitely an upgrade over half their fowards from this year.
Wyman, Shannon, Labrie, Wallace, Thompson, Hall, Tyrell, Brown, Pyatt.
lol raymond is an upgrade over nobody

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:51 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by sayheykid View Post
Not really. I think many posters have labeled him a 33 year old goalie with a terrible contract term. They aren't wrong.
The contract isn't nearly as horrible as some posters think (and mostly posters are non 'nuck fans and/or hate the 'nucks period). The cap hit is actually lower than most goalies around his level of play.

He's currently 8th in terms of cap hit but that isn't considering Rinne (who bumps up to 7mil next year), Price (who without a doubt will get a raise over the 2.75 he's making), Quick (who will likely get an extension worth > 5.33 mil after next season). Luongo's cap hit is actually only 133,333 more than Brodeur (who's 39) and thats pretty much when Luongo's contract will end (@ 39) or 333,333 more than Thomas (38). Once Luongo hit's 39, his salary will be so low that if he isn't worth his cap hit, you can easily

a) Dump him to the farm
b) Trade him to a salary floor team trying to cheat the cap floor (i.e. NYI now)
c) Loan him over to Europe (Huet situation)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
GMs around the league have noted Luongo as one of the best goalies in the league multiple times (4 Veizna nominations).

HFBoard posters have labelled him a terrible goalie who isn't worth all that much.

Don't think its worth discussing Luongo's trade value on HFBoards.
Sums it up. Its a pointless discussion just like most threads about Schneider. HFboard really underrate the value of goalies unless its a goalie prospect on their own team. Varlamov is likely the best example of actual goalie value going forward. Almost every team in the playoff right now has good goaltending (minus Pit/Phi series) while teams relying on lesser goalies are the teams sitting out (Tor, TB, CBJ, etc). Heck only reason Ana fail'd to make the playoff was due to Hiller's first 1/2 (same can be said about Buf/Miller).

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:51 AM
  #60
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How long has Tampa been going with the unproven option in net? Who was the last legit #1 goaltender they had, Khabibulin? I think Yzerman will think long and hard about acquiring Luongo should he be made available. The biggest sticking point obviously is the contract but I get the feeling that the actual GM's around the league would value Luongo more than most posters on here. And when you've had suspect goaltending for a long time, spending some cash on a guy that will be a big improvement isn't such a bad idea.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:52 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
To Vancouver:
10th Overall
Ryan Malone (3yrs - 4.500)

To Tampa Bay:
22nd overall
Roberto Luongo (10yrs - 5.333)
Mason Raymond (RFA - 2.550)

*** 10th overall should be guys like Ceci, Reinhart, Gaunce and Taravainen
*** 22nd overall should be guys like Koekkoek, Maatta, Subban and Matteau
*** Vancouver saves about 3.500 in CAP space


Edit: Perhaps I am under-valuing Malone?
In that case, would Vancouver adding their 2nd (52nd overall) and Tampa adding their 3rd (70th overall) help? Or 4th instead of 3rd (100th)? If its close... Add what you think is needed to get it done.
You owe Swift an apology.

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Old
04-19-2012, 01:00 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
How long has Tampa been going with the unproven option in net? Who was the last legit #1 goaltender they had, Khabibulin? I think Yzerman will think long and hard about acquiring Luongo should he be made available. The biggest sticking point obviously is the contract but I get the feeling that the actual GM's around the league would value Luongo more than most posters on here. And when you've had suspect goaltending for a long time, spending some cash on a guy that will be a big improvement isn't such a bad idea.
He might. Of course, he's going to have to convince ownership that reversing course on the long-term plan (building a perennial playoff team by acquiring youth to go along with Stamkos and Hedman) after only 2 years is a wise move. Yzerman has staked his entire philosophy on that premise, it's going to be hard for him to backtrack, especially after telling the fans, media etc., that he doesn't care how mad anyone gets, he's sticking to his plan.

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Old
04-19-2012, 10:06 AM
  #63
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Luongo is good, his contract sucks. And Yzerman has said our first will not be moved.

So try again.

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Old
04-19-2012, 10:14 AM
  #64
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Luongo playing in Tampa's system would be terrifying. He always plays at his best when the team in front of him is playing a defensively responsible game.

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Old
04-19-2012, 10:24 AM
  #65
2 Weekes Notice
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I'm just confused by this assumption going around that Luongo fetches this giant bounty from Tampa Bay. Realistically, why would Vancouver have a lot of leverage in this trade? How many teams

1. Have goalie needs and
2. Are places Luongo will waive his NTC for?

It's looking to me like Tampa is about the only place they could trade him, so I don't think they'll be able to, say, squeeze out Connolly and the TB first. I can't see any real bidding war here, and I don't think Yzerman is the type to bid against himself.

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Old
04-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #66
Ched Brosky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
I agree, i'd rather have 10-10-20 out of Raymond for 2.5 million rather than the 12-7-19 for 600k from Pyatt. Shannon is a free agent. You couldn't pay me to take Raymond over Thompson. Hall is a free agent. Tyrell is coming off a knee injury. Wyman is whatever, not worried about him. Labrie will be in the A, Wallace will battle for Halls spot, Brown will battle for a spot in the top six.

Killorn and Conacher will be battling for spots, too. I'd rather have half of those guys over Raymond. Outside of Conacher, at least those guys can play the body.
I love how u use Tyrells injury but fail to mention Raymond played less game than most of these guys coming off a major back injury and yet still out scored every single one of them.
But yup hes a 10 10 20 point guy when thats his career low playing only 55 games.

I guess that means Connolly is a 15 point guy since he played more than Raymond and he wasnt injured so u know his stats couldnt have been affected by anything since being a rookie shouldnt be a problem if a back brace just so a person could do normal body movements for numerous months cutting into offseason training isnt. With a whole offseason to train that would definitely not be a huge difference for him either.

Most players return to form a season after their injury because they can get the full and proper training in for their bodies that next offseason instead of it being cut short from an injury. Just like an offseason to train and adapt to the NHL will help Conolly, it will help Raymond be more prepared for the next season


Last edited by Ched Brosky: 04-19-2012 at 11:25 AM.
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Old
04-19-2012, 11:24 AM
  #67
ginner classic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
I'm just confused by this assumption going around that Luongo fetches this giant bounty from Tampa Bay. Realistically, why would Vancouver have a lot of leverage in this trade? How many teams

1. Have goalie needs and
2. Are places Luongo will waive his NTC for?

It's looking to me like Tampa is about the only place they could trade him, so I don't think they'll be able to, say, squeeze out Connolly and the TB first. I can't see any real bidding war here, and I don't think Yzerman is the type to bid against himself.
The bidding war will be the offers for Schneider against the offers for Luongo. If Schnieder returns the second pick in this draft, or heck maybe even the first, you keep Lou.

That's what Yzerman will be bidding against.

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Old
04-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Not many available? Really?

In order of who I think Yzerman will be going after this offseason:

Schneider
Bernier
Lindback
Price
Harding
Thomas
Luongo
Kipper
Vokoun

Tons of options. Some obviously better than others, although IMO ALL of them are better than anything we have had in recent history. All in that list "should" be available depending on the situations they and their teams are in for one reason or another. Obviously some will be more available than others, but there are plenty of options.




They are when the team decides they want to move on from said goalie and there is still a 10 year contract in place.
That list isn't all that accurate I don't think. Schneider - probably not available unless the offer is too good to pass up; Bernier - still under contract with LA, they don't have another back-up, Quick is entering his final season before UFA status - LA would be asking for a scoring winger in return; Lindback, definite possibility Nash would be looking for a young top 4 D back, or may prefer to keep their current back-up; Price - I can't see any situation short of being offered Stamkos that Montreal moves Price; Harding - FA so give him your best shot but you'll be competing with CBJ, Toronto, NJ, FLA, Chi-town; Thomas - depends if Boston wants to move on I guess, could probably be had for pick+prospect; Luongo - probably needs to move on with Vancouver choosing Schneider, probably be had for a pick+prospect; Kipper - Calgary ownership let Sutter go because he felt that the team needed to rebuild, ownership thinks they are a playoff team, probably won't let Kipper go because without him they are not a playoff team; Vokoun - see Harding, free agent going to the highest bidder.

So there are options, it just depends if TB is willing to pay the price required to acquire, but I don't think there are as many options as you have listed.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:06 PM
  #69
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Who the hell thinks Tampa needs forwards?

Steven Stamkos
Marty St. Louis
Vinny Lecavalier
Teddy Purcell
Ryan Malone
J.T. Brown
Brett Connolly
Cory Conacher
Alex Killorn

Those are just the guys who will be competing for a top 6 spot. There is no need for Mason Raymond at all.

I like Luongo a lot, and I def think he'd make Tampa an instant playoff team. Realistically speaking though, Vancouver probably won't get what he's worth from Yzerman. Unless the deal is a steal, I think he will just go after Bernier or someone like Vokoun.

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Old
04-19-2012, 12:09 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Who the hell thinks Tampa needs forwards?

Steven Stamkos
Marty St. Louis
Vinny Lecavalier
Teddy Purcell
Ryan Malone
J.T. Brown
Brett Connolly
Cory Conacher
Alex Killorn

Those are just the guys who will be competing for a top 6 spot. There is no need for Mason Raymond at all.

I like Luongo a lot, and I def think he'd make Tampa an instant playoff team. Realistically speaking though, Vancouver probably won't get what he's worth from Yzerman. Unless the deal is a steal, I think he will just go after Bernier or someone like Vokoun.
Obviously Canucks fans.

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Old
04-19-2012, 01:11 PM
  #71
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Well Raymond is better than J.T. Brown ,Cory Conacher, Alex Killorn( at least right now).

Malone would be dealt in the deal.

I dont see the problem with having raymond on the 3rd line anyway hes is good defensive forward and a very good PK:er.

Tampas problems are depth and goaltending IMO, but then again not a Tampa fan, so if you guys say you dont need forwards you probably dont.

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Old
04-19-2012, 01:19 PM
  #72
ShadowDuck
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
GMs around the league have noted Luongo as one of the best goalies in the league multiple times (4 vezina nominations.
How many Conn Smyth nominations?

Zing!

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Old
04-19-2012, 02:56 PM
  #73
chasespace
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Originally Posted by Askel View Post
Well Raymond is better than J.T. Brown ,Cory Conacher, Alex Killorn( at least right now).

Malone would be dealt in the deal.

I dont see the problem with having raymond on the 3rd line anyway hes is good defensive forward and a very good PK:er.

Tampas problems are depth and goaltending IMO, but then again not a Tampa fan, so if you guys say you dont need forwards you probably dont.
Goaltending was meh(now it's being revealed our goalie coach may be the cause). If we iced more than 2 NHL level defenders we would probably be in the playoffs.

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Old
04-19-2012, 03:17 PM
  #74
Ched Brosky
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Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
How many Conn Smyth nominations?

Zing!
probably 1 actually

how many does Lundqvist have?
Zing!

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Old
04-20-2012, 01:27 PM
  #75
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You owe Swift an apology.
Lol what?

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