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05-15-2012, 02:30 AM
  #476
Rexy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
"Real time stats" are a useless comparison. They vary widely between arenas, and their importance is overstated. Plus/minus is even worse, and if you need that explained to you, we should just stop right here.

Thus my inclusion of all of those advanced stats that you were too lazy to look at. They do a much better job at measuring effectiveness on defense. Where, as stated, Keith was much more effective than Seabrook.

And while you constantly dismiss points, they are still an undeniably important part of being a defenseman in the NHL. They are the sole reason that Karlsson and Green have ever been nominated for the Norris, and you're fooling yourself if you don't think they're taken into serious consideration every year when it comes to Norris voting.

Anything else that could possibly vouch for Seabrook being even on par with Keith in 2010?
+/- is a terrible stat when comparing players, but at the same time, it can be effective when comparing players on the same team.

It seems like you just chose to ignore what I said about hits, take aways, and give aways too.

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05-15-2012, 03:04 AM
  #477
Bubba88
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Keith was hands down the best DMan in 2010
Seabrook was good, but not close to Keith

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Old
05-15-2012, 11:04 AM
  #478
Sevanston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexy View Post
+/- is a terrible stat when comparing players, but at the same time, it can be effective when comparing players on the same team.

It seems like you just chose to ignore what I said about hits, take aways, and give aways too.
+/- is a terrible stat unless there's a large difference between two players of the same position on the same team that played in the same situations. It is entirely within the realm of reason that two defensive partners had the same +/- even though one was superior to the other. That's why it's such a terrible stat; it's so easy to disqualify. But you're already disregarding other evidence without so much as a reason why, so hanging your hat on +/- might feel like some kind of victory for you. It's not.

If you think I ignored what you said about "hits, giveaways, and takeaways" then you clearly don't know what real-time stats are.

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